Rumor: Dhaliwal- Boeser to Pens is a real possibility

[Buresflyingelbow]

I don’t think Kap’s value is 2 2nds. Maybe one late 2nd.

yes I think 1st, 2nd, POJ gets it done, and that’s because it’s similar value to Kap, POJ 1st not Kap, POJ, 2nd.

It’s a first and they should get on it. Only goes down from here.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The more I think about it, the more I think I'd do Kapanen, POJ and a 1st for Boeser, if push came to shove. If I can get Boeser to an extension prior to that trade, as long as it's something that isn't absolutely insane (so less than 7x7), I think I would ultimately end up doing it.

I think that's paying too much for Boeser, but the difference between a 2nd and a 1st isn't big enough for me to say to one and no to the other, if they insisted on having the 1st. The difference between a 2nd and a 1st isn't worth the difference of acquiring Boeser or not acquiring Boeser, even though I think it's too much to pay for Boeser.

I think that thing may be something JR taught me when he was the Penguins GM. It's better off paying a bit more to get a good player you want over trying to pay "fair" value and risk not getting him.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

The more I think about it, the more I think I'd do Kapanen, POJ and a 1st for Boeser, if push came to shove. If I can get Boeser to an extension prior to that trade, as long as it's something that isn't absolutely insane (so less than 7x7), I think I would ultimately end up doing it.

I think that's paying too much for Boeser, but the difference between a 2nd and a 1st isn't big enough for me to say to one and no to the other, if they insisted on having the 1st. The difference between a 2nd and a 1st isn't worth the difference of acquiring Boeser or not acquiring Boeser, even though I think it's too much to pay for Boeser.

Of course you do, you flip Kaspari and POJ for another first to a playoff team looking for good depth. That’s 2 1st round picks.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Of course you do, you flip Kaspari and POJ for another first to a playoff team looking for good depth. That’s 2 1st round picks.

I'm saying that from the Penguins POV, not the Canucks POV

I think they should keep both POJ and Kapanen if they acquire them, though. Unless you don't have a RW spot for Kapanen at all, I think they're better off keeping both over trading them for a lottery ticket 1st rounder. Both Kapanen and POJ were 1st rounders, you're not really guaranteed to get better than either of them with a 1st rounder if you trade them for one.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

I'm saying that from the Penguins POV, not the Canucks POV

I think they should keep both POJ and Kapanen if they acquire them, though. Unless you don't have a RW spot for Kapanen at all, I think they're better off keeping both over trading them for a lottery ticket 1st rounder. Both Kapanen and POJ were 1st rounders, you're not really guaranteed to get better than either of them with a 1st rounder if you trade them for one.

I’m in the mind of wingers are the least important pieces on a team. You draft Centers and Dman and they hold their value in gold even if you want to flip them. RHD, Center are the two positions that will hold value regardless of D+1 years and teams give up assets for them. You use the two 1st round picks on RHD or Centers.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

I’m in the mind of wingers are the least important pieces on a team. You draft Centers and Dman and they hold their value in gold even if you want to flip them. RHD, Center are the two positions that will hold value regardless of D+1 years and teams give up assets for them. You use the two 1st round picks on RHD or Centers.

Delete

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

After that sweet, sweet assist to Matthews the pick is back down to a second.

 

[Cogburn]

1. Tyler Johnson was traded at age 30 and had term with an awful contract.
2. Galchenyuk was not nearly as good as Kapanen today when he was traded. Galchenyuk was a horrid ES player who relied on the powerplay to get points. That's like the exact opposite of what Kapanen was.
3. Lindberg was never as good as Kapanen at any point in the NHL.
4. Tatar had value in the trade when he was traded.

I can't convince someone who's saying something fundamentally stupid while being stubborn that they're wrong. I can give you plenty of examples of players who were in Kapanen's exact position that weren't cap dumps, with Burakovsky being the leading example, but you'll just dismiss it as wrong because "I say so".

When I say "give me an example of a player in Kapanen's shoes", I mean players that are actually comparable. Guys like Burakovsky, Eller, Shaw and Kunin are actually comparable.

1. Yup, he was still a player "like Kapanen", as a low end top six player. You didn't qualify how bad the contract was, or age.
2. Coming to Pittsburgh, Galchenyuk was undoubtedly better. 17 points in 45 games, when Galchenyuk was on the way out, is worse, but 26 points in 56 isn't stellar either, and Galchenyuk had a much better track record for scoring.
3. Lindberg was not, but 68 points in 223 games isn't far off 90 points 202 games, in their first few seasons as a second line forward. Obviously Kapanen is the better player, but it's not like comparing one of them to Crosby here.
4. Tatar was included for cap reasons. He had a whopping 6 points in 20 games since his acquisition, with a cap hit close to the much better player he was included in the trade for. Vegas was not happy with Tatar or his play while he was there, and were quick to move him when they had an opportunity.
You didn't count Tierney either. But he would also fall into what ever we're calling a superfluous player with a cap hit that was moved for convenience of the Sharks, acquiring the better player.

I am not "just" being stubborn, I am asking to be convinced that Kapanen's value is worth more then his cap hit to Vancouver. All you seem to be able to do is call my argument stupid and offer nothing in return, avoiding every larger point I make. Why should a team that is moving a better player for future cap space, has no room on the wings, this year or coming up, and would be rebuilding with this move, value Kapanen at all?

I used players included as cap dumps in deals for other players or contracts. All of the players you've listed were traded as the centerpiece of what ever deal they were in. We're not talking about Vancouver trading for Kapanen straight across, but his inclusion in a larger trade to offset returning cap for Pittsburgh, in the same trade.

So of all your examples, I have none yet by the way, how many of times has a "Kapanen like player", in this case a 25 year old scoring forward exclusively playing wing, that hasn't scored 20 more than once in his career so far, has averaged about a half point per game and needs a new RFA contract, been traded in a package for a "Boeser like player", a comparably aged, RFA, better player, to a "Canucks like team", a non-playoff team, looking to move this kind of player to begin a rebuild as the first move (as no other rebuild moves have been made yet), are moving "Boeser" due to future cap concerns regarding their other star players, glaringly need upgrades elsewhere, are loaded with 6 players to play the 6 roles that "Kapanen" can play (all top 9 winger spots, and all but one of the 6 out scoring Kapanen), are already tight against the cap, and in context to a situation like this, has had their highest authority say he is focusing on picks and prospects (Rumor: - Rutherford re-iterates that Canucks want picks or young players. Halak available?

 

[Canucks LB]

After that sweet, sweet assist to Matthews the pick is back down to a second.

He did also score tho.
That's Brock, he makes mistakes, But he does have some serious offensive talent

 

[Cogburn]

So what are you expecting to get out of a Boeser trade if you move him? JR has stated he wants more speed and skill, and I would assume Alvin is on board with that.
The player beeing offerd brings both of those things, and would give you some more cap flexibility, on top of that you would be getting one of the Pens best prospects (wich isn't saying much, I know) in POJ who allso gives you more of that, and a late second rounder, for a player who's not having the best season so far compared to what he's done in the past, and who has a QO I presume Van doesn't want to pay, hence why he's one the block in the first place.. I'm not saying it's imposible someone might offer more, but to say it doesn't serve a need for you guys seems to go against everything your front office has been saying after they took over.

The cap space from moving Boeser would be worth far more then Kapanen to us.

A first round pick and a prospect is fine. Maybe a lower pick, or what ever a Kapanen is worth in his place. Rutherford also said he wants picks and prospects.

My gripe isn't the value, it's having Kapanen shoved down our throats, under the guise that our president once traded for him, when there is no place for him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The fact that someone mentioned a sample size of Kapanen putting up 9 points in 38 games as a 21 year old playing 11 minutes a night for how Lindberg and Kapanen are "comparable" just proves my point that any sort of rationalization is a waste of time. "You never mentioned age or contract when you said comparable to Kapanen" as for why Johnson is comparable is just as bad, too.

Good luck in your future endeavors. You're not worth my time.

 

[Gurglesons]

The cap space from moving Boeser would be worth far more then Kapanen to us.

A first round pick and a prospect is fine. Maybe a lower pick, or what ever a Kapanen is worth in his place. Rutherford also said he wants picks and prospects.

My gripe isn't the value, it's having Kapanen shoved down our throats, under the guise that our president once traded for him, when there is no place for him.

If you are moving Boeser in season you are taking cap back. Kapanen gives you value either in signing him or trading his RFA rights for an additional pick.

 

[Cogburn]

The fact that someone mentioned a sample size of Kapanen putting up 9 points in 38 games as a 21 year old playing 11 minutes a night for how Lindberg and Kapanen are "comparable" just proves my point that any sort of rationalization is a waste of time. "You never mentioned age or contract when you said comparable to Kapanen" is just as bad, too.

Good luck in your future endeavors. You're not worth my time.

Missing the forest by focusing on the trees here.

 

[robes1]

Boeser is like a younger, way more handsome, but slower, less playmaking version Kessel.

 

[Cogburn]

If you are moving Boeser in season you are taking cap back. Kapanen gives you value either in signing him or trading his RFA rights for an additional pick.

So he is cap returning for Pittsburgh's sake, yes? That is all I'm looking for here.

 

[Gurglesons]

So he is cap returning for Pittsburgh's sake, yes? That is all I'm looking for here.

Any deal with Boeser is going to be to a contender. If you trade him to Pittsburgh, Kapanen would be the player with value you'd get back in terms of cap.

I'm not even sure what this statement means.

 

[Cogburn]

Any deal with Boeser is going to be to a contender. If you trade him to Pittsburgh, Kapanen would be the player with value you'd get back in terms of cap.

I'm not even sure what this statement means.

Sorry, I'm projecting a conversation I just had and put everything on your shoulders.

I am of the position that Kapanen holds very little, even no, value to Vancouver for a whole variety of reasons, and that his inclusion shouldn't be included as an asset from our perspective. His, or any other salary added, isn't a stopping point, just that if the offer is Joseph+1st with Kapanen, or Joseph+1st+2nd with other single year cap dumps, we're taking the second offer.

 

[Bankerguy]

Boeser has a career PPG of 0.80 which is about 66 points if playing a full 82 game season.
He is also a 0.375 goals per game which is like a 31 goal pace over 82 games.
He's 25 years old and coming into RFA status w/o a contract.

I think he snags something more than a 1st round pick. Really good established prospect or a 1st and a decent roster player with some upside.

However.... all i'm seeing is lowball offers lol

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

After that sweet, sweet assist to Matthews the pick is back down to a second.

Team USA?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Boeser has a career PPG of 0.80 which is about 66 points if playing a full 82 game season.
He is also a 0.375 goals per game which is like a 31 goal pace over 82 games.
He's 25 years old and coming into RFA status w/o a contract.

I think he snags something more than a 1st round pick. Really good established prospect or a 1st and a decent roster player with some upside.

However.... all i'm seeing is lowball offers lol

I mean isn't Kapanen, POJ and a 1st pretty much this?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Boeser has a career PPG of 0.80 which is about 66 points if playing a full 82 game season.
He is also a 0.375 goals per game which is like a 31 goal pace over 82 games.
He's 25 years old and coming into RFA status w/o a contract.

I think he snags something more than a 1st round pick. Really good established prospect or a 1st and a decent roster player with some upside.

However.... all i'm seeing is lowball offers lol

You just described Kapanen + a 1st.

I mean, if Kapanen isn't "a decent roster player with some upside" then exactly who are you envisioning getting for Boeser? Alexis Lafreniere? Quinton Byfield?

 

[im gangster]

Kapanen is Pittsburgh’s Kerfoot. No god no.

 

[Gurglesons]

Sorry, I'm projecting a conversation I just had and put everything on your shoulders.

I am of the position that Kapanen holds very little, even no, value to Vancouver for a whole variety of reasons, and that his inclusion shouldn't be included as an asset from our perspective. His, or any other salary added, isn't a stopping point, just that if the offer is Joseph+1st with Kapanen, or Joseph+1st+2nd with other single year cap dumps, we're taking the second offer.

Yes. The package is Joseph and a 1st and then you get Kapanen because the contract situation has the most value. If we moved Kapanen straight up we’d probably get a 2nd and a meh prospect ala the Murray trade.

 

[Bankerguy]

You just described Kapanen + a 1st.

I mean, if Kapanen isn't "a decent roster player with some upside" then exactly who are you envisioning getting for Boeser? Alexis Lafreniere? Quinton Byfield?

There's a huge gap between Kapanen and Byfield.
I think we've seen enough of Kapanen (with two teams now none the less) to know that there isnt much more upside there. I'd probably target someone a few year younger with a higher chance of developing into something more than they are now.
From Van's perspective, a RD would be preferable.

 

[Bankerguy]

I mean isn't Kapanen, POJ and a 1st pretty much this?

I didnt see this when i posted originally but this is not a bad offer from a value perspective.
I wonder if the Pens would put this on the table