Rumor: Dhaliwal- Boeser to Pens is a real possibility

[Empoleon8771]

If the Pens are making a serious run this year (which they will be unless there’s some catastrophic injury before the deadline), then they’re not trading either Pettersson, POJ or Friedman without a Dman coming back (and in the case of Pettersson, a top 4 coming back). The Pens know you need D depth for the playoffs and I just don’t see any of those guys going unless there’s a Dman coming back.

And as I have mentioned elsewhere, I don’t see them moving POJ at all unless they know for certain they will be re-signing Dumoulin and not losing him to UFA so they can keep Dumo/Petts/Matheson intact if they’re moving POJ.

So if they’re targeting a top 6 forward, which I do believe is their biggest priority, it’s assets like their next two first round pics, a prospect like Poulin and other prospects in the system (like the bevy of G prospects, etc.) that will be the pieces they consider moving, along with a player like KK.

The Penguins still have sufficient D depth even if they trade one of those guys. They are currently about 10 defenseman deep in terms of guys who can play in the NHL without being horribly out of place:

Dumoulin-Letang
Pettersson-Marino
Matheson-Ruhwedel
POJ-Friedman
Riikola-Fedun

They can't afford to trade 2 of those guys, but they can absolutely afford to trade one of them, especially if we're talking about someone like POJ. Not only that, but it's also fairly easy to grab a depth D near the deadline if you're really that concerned about only being 9 NHL caliber D deep.

 

[48MPHSlapShot]

I don't know, Friedman is 26 and has managed 36 games so far. Possession numbers aren't impressive...I'd rather focus on Joseph or even Poulin with a first then Kapanen and Friedman being the main pieces back.

I'd consider the 1st the main piece. POJ is a nice piece, but we're pretty locked in on the left side going forward with Hughes signed long-term, OEL signed forever and Rathbone ready for a callup. POJ fits the team need better than Rathbone does though, so if we were able to move Rathbone for an equivalent quality RD prospect or player with less emphasis on their offensive game and more on their defensive game, then I'd be all for something involving POJ.

I'm personally not super interested in Poulin.

 

[Cogburn]

I'd consider the 1st the main piece. POJ is a nice piece, but we're pretty locked in on the left side going forward with Hughes signed long-term, OEL signed forever and Rathbone ready for a callup. POJ fits the team need better than Rathbone does though, so if we were able to move Rathbone for an equivalent quality RD prospect or player with less emphasis on their offensive game and more on their defensive game, then I'd be all for something involving POJ.

I'm personally not super interested in Poulin.

I'm not super interested in either, given how our team is composed, but Poulin or Joseph are considerably better pieces then Friedman. Devils fans have been happy enough offering Zacha(a much better fit then Kapanen), their lower first and a prospect, not always their best guy but someone who fits our needs better, for Boeser/Garland and Dickinson.

 

[Turin]

Kapanen > Zacha, so Kapanen plus a significant future add and a pick is definitely fair

 

[48MPHSlapShot]

I'm not super interested in either, given how our team is composed, but Poulin or Joseph are considerably better pieces then Friedman. Devils fans have been happy enough offering Zacha(a much better fit then Kapanen), their lower first and a prospect, not always their best guy but someone who fits our needs better, for Boeser/Garland and Dickinson.

I don't think Boeser has the value to demand Kap, a 1st and Poulin/Joseph. If Poulin or Joseph are added to the deal instead of Friedman, I think the 1st changes into a 2nd, and I'd rather have the 1st and Friedman than a 2nd and one of Poulin/Joseph.

NJ is probably a better fit for us though. If they were to offer Zacha, their later 1st and a decent RHD prospect I'd take that offer and run.

 

[Jerkbait]

Kapanen, a 3rd and Poulin is well paid.
Anymore and Rutherford will fleece Pittsburgh worst than dubas did

 

[Ryder71]

Kapanen, a 3rd and Poulin is well paid.
Anymore and Rutherford will fleece Pittsburgh worst than dubas did

We don't have a 3rd until '24 I believe but yeah, that's about the price I'd offer up also. We just have to hope JR and Allvin covet Poulin as they have in the past. I wouldn't go much beyond that.

 

[beachcomber]

Kapanen, a 3rd and Poulin is well paid.
Anymore and Rutherford will fleece Pittsburgh worst than dubas did

Not getting Boeser for a bunch of spare parts. Kapanen isn't the type of player the Canucks need.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Not getting Boeser for a bunch of spare parts. Kapanen isn't the type of player the Canucks need.

I'm genuinely interested to hear what you think Boeser can actually bring back if you think a package of Kapanen, POJ and a 1st rounder is "a bunch of spare parts".

If you wouldn't be happy about that, I pretty much guarantee you're going to be mad about what Boeser actually gets traded for.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

I'm genuinely interested to hear what you think Boeser can actually bring back if you think a package of Kapanen, POJ and a 1st rounder is "a bunch of spare parts".

If you wouldn't be happy about that, I pretty much guarantee you're going to be mad about what Boeser actually gets traded for.

I'd be more than happy with that offer. I haven't seen anyone else include those three parts in one deal for Boeser.

 

[Cogburn]

I don't think Boeser has the value to demand Kap, a 1st and Poulin/Joseph. If Poulin or Joseph are added to the deal instead of Friedman, I think the 1st changes into a 2nd, and I'd rather have the 1st and Friedman than a 2nd and one of Poulin/Joseph.

NJ is probably a better fit for us though. If they were to offer Zacha, their later 1st and a decent RHD prospect I'd take that offer and run.

Oh, I don't care if Kapanen is included or not.

I agree that NJ is the better fit though.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'd be more than happy with that offer. I haven't seen anyone else include those three parts in one deal for Boeser.

I've seen a few other people say Kapanen, POJ and a 2nd and I saw a proposal of Kapanen, Friedman and a 1st as well. Those aren't as valuable as Kapanen, POJ and a 1st, but I don't think they're that super far off. It's the difference in value of around a 2nd rounder IMO.

I also think there is a hesitance among some Penguins fans because they saw JR gamble with trading 1st rounders non-stop and the team is looking more towards the future. The problem with this thinking is that "draft picks" aren't the only way you can be looking towards the future.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Be prepared to use this .gif a lot when JR is running the ship. I cant thank the guy more for '16-'17 but when the transactions start going through you get all queasy about the chaos thats going to unfold

Good thing he isn't the GM then right

 

[jmelm]

I don’t know how Friedman and POJ became equated and interchangeable all of a sudden. One is a 6/7. The other should be a future top 3/4.

 

[PenderB]

Today I learned that a 25 year old Kapanen on pace for ~40 points while being a pending RFA making $3.2 million is comparable to:

-Galchenyuk as a 25 year old pending UFA while being on pace for 30 points and making $5 million
-Tyler Johnson as a 30 year old forward making $5 million with term while being a 30 point player
-Tatar who was traded for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd 5 months before being traded in the Pacioretty deal
-Lindberg as a pending UFA on pace for 25 points and making like $2.5 million

Damn, I'm totally wrong here! Kapanen is absolutely a cap dump! Man, I'm just such a massive idiot for not seeing it. At least if you'd bring up someone like Andreas Johnsson or even Jared McCann (although this was mostly due to the expansion draft), you might have a point. But seriously, those f***ing guys? Seriously? Who next, are you going to mention Derrick Brassard as if he's comparable to Kapanen?

Again, just because you don't think Kapanen fills a need for your team doesn't mean he doesn't have value or is a cap dump. That's like me saying "Hoglander doesn't fill a need for my team, so he wouldn't have any value in a trade to my team".

I agree with your comment. My only thing is as a Canuck fan we already have 2 other 3rd line calibre players making 3millionish per year in Pearson and Dickinson. Kap does have value but unless we can unload one of those guys he really doesn’t fit our payroll structure if that makes sense. The way Dickinson is playing this year you could say he’s a 4th liner

 

[Tender Rip]

I've seen a few other people say Kapanen, POJ and a 2nd and I saw a proposal of Kapanen, Friedman and a 1st as well. Those aren't as valuable as Kapanen, POJ and a 1st, but I don't think they're that super far off. It's the difference in value of around a 2nd rounder IMO.

I also think there is a hesitance among some Penguins fans because they saw JR gamble with trading 1st rounders non-stop and the team is looking more towards the future. The problem with this thinking is that "draft picks" aren't the only way you can be looking towards the future.

I would probably kinda hate that. Requires Boeser contributing to us going far AND re-signing at a meaningful caphit, or that we win the whole thing, in which case... well, you accept a lot in that case .
I further have major reservations that Boeser, fine sniper though he is, ticks the boxes we need ticked. He is a better PP weapon than Rust and Rodrigues, yes, but that just isn't a huge concern with how the PP has been since Sid and then Geno came back. Both Rust and Erod score when given the chance with the 1st unit.
Nor is Boeser going to help much at all with the issues that PP could optimize on. He has the skill and vision to also help make Geno more dangerous ES, which is good, but in terms of sustaining offensive zone times, forcing turnovers and help out defensively.... I don't see him really adding.

Finally, I don't want to include POJ because he needs to be in the lineup next season when we should deal one of the LD's with real salaries. At least if its Kappy and 1st, if more is needed it should be a different prospect.

 

[brewski420]

I've seen a few other people say Kapanen, POJ and a 2nd and I saw a proposal of Kapanen, Friedman and a 1st as well. Those aren't as valuable as Kapanen, POJ and a 1st, but I don't think they're that super far off. It's the difference in value of around a 2nd rounder IMO.

I also think there is a hesitance among some Penguins fans because they saw JR gamble with trading 1st rounders non-stop and the team is looking more towards the future. The problem with this thinking is that "draft picks" aren't the only way you can be looking towards the future.

To be honest I am probably one of those not wanting to trade a first rounder and for that matter POJ in a package for Boeser. Just not sure he brings back that much to warrant those pieces. Maybe I am missing something but not sure but if his qualifying number is $7.5 that seems high. Probably why Canucks looking to trade him.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Lots of report lately out of Van that Boeser is the main piece that will be shipped rather than Miller.

Would not mind Kapanen but I think if Boeser is moved a Dman is coming in return whether thats from Pitt or not we shall soon find out.

angry......not sure why

 

[Boondock]

Thats it? Why don’t we throw in Crosby too?

Cap

 

[Boondock]

When JR took over as the Canucks president, one of his first press conferences was laying out what he wanted to do with the Canucks and what he thought the flaws were in his team. Here was the thread that pointed it out:

Rumor: - Rutherford lays out the blueprint of what the Canucks are looking for via Trade





I don't know how you can read those things and say "nah, Kapanen wouldn't do anything for us". Kapanen would add a 40-45 point speedster winger that can drive play from a 3rd line role or be an inconsistent complementary piece in a top-6 role while being a legitimate threat while killing penalties. He's your stereotypical speedster middle-6 forward, someone compared him to Grabner earlier and I think that's a fair comparison. I don't know how you can read what Jim Rutherford is saying he wants to add to the Canucks and conclude that Kapanen would be nothing but a cap dump for them. He may not be valued like a top-6 forward when JR acquired him in Pittsburgh, because JR was on the record saying that he paid top-6 prices for Kapanen because he viewed Kapanen as a top-6 forward, but there is still value in what Kapanen realistically is.

Well, probably because he said speed and skill. Kap is skilled enough to be in the NHL so obviously he has skill. But getting hung up on speed and thinking Kapanen is exactly what the Canucks need is flawed. Speed is great, when it doesn't improve the other people on the ice or it is paired with 3rd line skill and production, then you are better off keeping the top 6 skill, with less speed. Kap and Boeser have the same PK time since Kap re-joined the Pens, so tough to buy the "legitimate threat", since he hasn't done it in 2 seasons. Could he? Sure - Boeser also had 29 goals in 62 games before so he "could be " a 40-45 goal scorer. In my opinion Kap's value has gone down since Rutherford paid top 6 winger price for him, so to double down and make another move I would sure hope Rutherford has adjusted his perceived value of Kap.

 

[Boondock]

POJ plays an incredibly similar style to Marino, he's just a lefty instead of a righty. I know the handiness thing would be an issue, but if you think Marino would be a really nice acquisition in a Boeser trade, I think you'd ultimately be satisfied with POJ. JR said that POJ can play RD before he left, but I don't recall ever seeing him tried on RD with the Penguins.

I don't think Kapanen has "a lot" of value right now. His value is probably comparable to a lot of other younger middle-6 RFAs who have been traded in recent years, something like 2 2nds if I had to guess (based on trades like Shaw, Eller and Burakovsky). His value is definitely not what JR paid for it 2 years ago, but he's also not this valueless throw-in either.

If you assume 2 2nds equals a 1st, is POJ, a 1st and 2nd for Boeser that far off? A 1st and 2nd falls in that Toffoli/Zucker trade range, is that plus POJ enough to get up to Boeser?

I think this is exactly the type of deal Canuck management should be looking at. A deal that clears cap, adds young assets and improves the defensive depth. Now, the homer in my would love a different prospect (RHD that is close to NHL ready, who's playing style would potential work well with Hughes) but knowing how difficult that would be to find, I would think this is the next best type of deal.

 

[Boondock]

His faceoff percentage is pretty decent, although a quick look at his stats tells me that he doesn't take a lot of draws. I admittedly don't know a lot about the player outside of stat watching. Does he play significantly better on the wing than at center?

yes, as of last season (maybe even the season before) Zacha has been used exclusively as a winger. This is also when there was a bump in his production, so it appears despite his position when drafted, Zacha is an NHL winger.

 

[wej20]

Well, probably because he said speed and skill. Kap is skilled enough to be in the NHL so obviously he has skill. But getting hung up on speed and thinking Kapanen is exactly what the Canucks need is flawed. Speed is great, when it doesn't improve the other people on the ice or it is paired with 3rd line skill and production, then you are better off keeping the top 6 skill, with less speed. Kap and Boeser have the same PK time since Kap re-joined the Pens, so tough to buy the "legitimate threat", since he hasn't done it in 2 seasons. Could he? Sure - Boeser also had 29 goals in 62 games before so he "could be " a 40-45 goal scorer. In my opinion Kap's value has gone down since Rutherford paid top 6 winger price for him, so to double down and make another move I would sure hope Rutherford has adjusted his perceived value of Kap.

Not sure why Kapanen would suddenly lose his usefulness in a PK role. I wish Sully would give him a shot on the PK, could jump start him out of the rut he's in.

 

[Boondock]

Wonder whether Vancouver would have interest in Friedman

Still has some second pair upside as a RD, RFA after this season

Stock is up from his most recent stint with strong analytics

Pens just resigned Ruhwedel to an extension and wouldn't move Marino/Letang so RD is pretty set when healthy

Something like Kap + 1st + Friedman seems reasonable, or swap Poulin for the 1st

Friedman, is not what the Canucks are looking for. A 26 year old with less than 40 NHL games is not an improvement on what they currently have, and there isn't the potential for the player to break out and become a more important piece in Vancouver. I'd think the deal would need to include POJ (and even then I'd consider it but I don't love the prospect).

 

[DrDangles]

I'd rather go for Garland tbh