Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part VI

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ZachaFlockaFlame

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I think everyone knows Vanecek was most likely a band-aid. It would've been stupid to go all in a goalie if the skaters in front of the goalie didn't improve or had a fall back year 5v5. FWIW, he had some of the best stats 5v5 the last few years so that's why the Devils probably went after him too.
 

NHL Fanatik

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I think everyone knows Vanecek was most likely a band-aid. It would've been stupid to go all in a goalie if the skaters in front of the goalie didn't improve or had a fall back year 5v5. FWIW, he had some of the best stats 5v5 the last few years so that's why the Devils probably went after him too.
Are we thinking Schmid may be better?

And why did Blackwood not pan out again? I sort of forget after covid and all. Was it an ankle injury IIRC? One that he re-aggravated?
 

StevenToddIves

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You have a truly stunning ability to not look things up when you spout off like this with a grandiose theory. Kotkaniemi does not play 'huge 5v5 and PP minutes'. He plays 15 minutes a game. That's 3C minutes. He has the 8th most minutes per game on the team for forwards. Again, 3C minutes. He plays on the 2nd power play unit. These aren't huge minutes. He does play with some of the best players on the team and doesn't score many points, but part of that is that his IPP is wildly low this season. He's not pulling his weight financially but he's not a huge liability, and almost every other team in the East has a bigger one on their roster, or did.

The Hurricanes didn't get rid of Hamilton because they signed Kotkaniemi, they didn't sign Hamilton because they think more than a year ahead. They weren't willing to commit the amount of money the Devils did to him, not even close. Hamilton and Horvat will cost $10M more than Kotkaniemi + Gostisbehere next season.



This is some solid post-hoc reasoning - Pacioretty played 80 games out of a combined 138 the last two seasons. They traded for him and he got injured training in the off-season. Then he came back and immediately got hurt again.



This is silly, the Devils are dealing from a position of massive strength because they've been awful for the last 5 years, and the 'Canes are not dealing from that same strength. It doesn't matter what tier of the Devils prospects they dealt from - they have a huge stable and no matter what they did for Meier, they were going to keep most of their top prospects.



The 'Canes cap situation is phenomenal next season (and next season alone). After 2024 it gets tougher with Necas and Pesce being free agents, but their cap situation is far superior to ours and probably anyone's in the Eastern Conference. They of course have to take advantage of that.



You are inventing a bunch of asinine reasons why an organization which is otherwise completely ruthless with regard to improving their team year after year is somehow fixated on one player. You've also got the Kirby Dach deal all wrong, which doesn't even need to be mentioned - the main piece in that deal was Alex Romanov who went to the Islanders, the Islanders pick went to Montreal, and they traded that to Chicago for Dach.
1. The Devils paid Hamilton $9 million per, which Carolina could not afford last season. When Carolina made the Kotkaniemi deal they paid him $6.1 million. They then couldn't come to terms with their then-27 year old all-star defenseman and fit him under the cap. So they let him go and acquired Tony DeAngelo at $4.8 million. Essentially, they let a Norris-caliber D go so they could spend $2 million more on a low-compete, replacement-level forward and a borderline AHL-caliber defenseman with mental problems. Carolina's upset loss to the Rangers in last years' playoffs was greatly influenced by the almost jarringly awful play of both DeAngelo and Kotkaniemi in the series. But boy, did they stick it to those Canadiens!

Carolina did not let a prime-era, all-star RD go because they were "thinking about the future". They let Hamilton go because they forgot to think about the future.

2. So, Kotkaniemi centers Carolina's 2nd line wingers and the 2nd PP, but he's somehow not their 2nd line center. I see. Hm.

3. Some solid reasoning that the Pacioretty trade was not risky because he played 80 out of 138 games. Well, now it's going to be 83 out of 220 games. When can we call him injury prone?

4. Fitzgerald absolutely deserves a world of credit for acquiring an all-star forward in Timo Meier without giving up any of his top 3 non-NHL assets (Hughes, Nemec, Holtz). No one expected this.

5. You got me on the Kirby Dach deal. I confused the assets exchanged for 13th overall pick with the 26th overall pick with all the trades Montreal made. Even so, Dach is a better player than Kotkaniemi now and going forward, and at a lesser salary with a higher compete level. All in all, the Canadiens made out pretty well in the long run.

Look, I appreciate you trying to defend the Carolina management. They deserve kudos for hiring a great coaching staff, cultivating a great atmosphere around their arena, and drafting exceptionally well year in and year out. But my point was many of their personnel decisions over the past two years have been remarkably poor. I said I liked the Burns deal when they made it and the Puljujarvi deal wasn't half bad. But let's face it, the Kotkaniemi deal was made strictly to stick it to Montreal in revenge of the Aho offer sheet, and the fallout from this childish move and the refusal to move on from it has greatly hurt the team's Stanley Cup chances. I don't see how this argument is triggering in any way.

Regardless, the Svechnikov injury likely takes the Hurricanes out of any realistic Cup contention this year, so we'll never know. I don't legitimately see how they are going to get by the Rangers in the first round of the playoffs, to be perfectly honest.
 

Eggtimer

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I know this sounds ridiculous , but aI somewhat wonder if the Hughes Meier Bratt line struggling a little is partly due to almost too many skilled guys on one line. Each guy likes to have the puck on their stick and are usually responsible to create offence on their own on their old lines. Maybe they are trying to skill it up too much and for now ,just need to keep it simple , shoot when they have a good look , and not overthink plays and set eachother up for the highlight reel goal.
It’s still early to say if the line is not going to work together or not, but it would be good to get our lines set up the best we can before playoffs. I’m not sure what the best way to do that is. Camt break up Nico Tatar Mercer right now. How many games do you give it before we need to mix up the lines ?
If we can get all of Meier , Jack, Bratt ,Bratt , Mercer on a roll at the same time …. We can do some massive damage in the playoffs
 
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Bleedred

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Are we thinking Schmid may be better?

And why did Blackwood not pan out again? I sort of forget after covid and all. Was it an ankle injury IIRC? One that he re-aggravated?
Blackwood was horrible in the AHL, particularly in year two. His best year there was his first year.

It’s more than possible that Blackwood just isn’t any good, wasn’t going to be any good, and those first two years of NHL play from him were more of the exception. Those were his only particularly good seasons in his pro career. His first year in the AHL was decent.

I think it was his heel.

Schmid may be better than Vanecek, yes.

Here’s how I’d rank them

Blackwood: BAD

Vanecek: AVERAGE

Schmid: ?
 

MasterofGrond

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Blackwood was probably never going to be great, given his career performance prior to the NHL, but the covid shit and the constant injuries sure took any chance he ever had of being better than bad.

Tough to be good if you're never playing.
 

NjDevsRR

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Where are all the Vanecek lovers now? 1 good game 4 bad games lose you a series.

Lol record, that's cute. He has that winning instinct like Fuhr.
What a douche way to bring up the goaltending conversation, yikes.

A newish goalie who put up a great stretch of hockey in his first season a Devil? Who is also charismatic? Yeah, no shit everyone loves him. How the hell can you not?

This doesn’t take away his play of the last ten games. He does need to be better.

Was that so hard?
 

Camille the Eel

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Blackwood was probably never going to be great, given his career performance prior to the NHL, but the covid shit and the constant injuries sure took any chance he ever had of being better than bad.

Tough to be good if you're never playing.
I won’t be surprised if Blackwood eventually has a good NHL career with another club. Like with Zacha here, there are times when a player needs a change of scene to move forward and a club needs to move on from a particular guy. Blackwood plays well instinctively and makes good reaction saves, and who knows but with different coaching and a fresh start, he may well reset his development and career.

Of course his injury bug is also key in this. If he keeps on going on IR three times a year after playing five games each time back, he’s not going to cut it. But that too is something that can change with different luck and perhaps different training and the cleaning up of his technique.
 

PizzaAndPucks

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I jad a feing when we got Meier that he was going to play better with Nico than Hughes. He really needs to step up and start finding the back of the net because aside from his 1st goal and the shootout goal vs the Caps , he has been underwhelming. On his part though I have to think playing with Hughes is is not as easy playing with other players he was with on the Sharks. Hughes does so damn much out there and has the puck alot so Meier is really going to have to drive the net alot for rebounds or start to find some soft spots in the offensive zone to receive some passes for some hugh quality shots.
 
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PizzaAndPucks

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What a douche way to bring up the goaltending conversation, yikes.

A newish goalie who put up a great stretch of hockey in his first season a Devil? Who is also charismatic? Yeah, no shit everyone loves him. How the hell can you not?

This doesn’t take away his play of the last ten games. He does need to be better.

Was that so hard?
Somehow this guy was a hockey scout back in the day ? I used to actually like reading his posts but his track record for projecting what Devils prospect's and such would be is pretty awful. Literally most of the stuff he posts or projects is not right.


Still don't get why Fitz wasted a 4th round pick for Lazar. Whatever happens in the playoffs this year is all gravy. We deff set out with expectations and I'm all for upgrading the team but brining in a player who has 5 points in 40 something games doesn't really upgrade your team. We literally are sitting Sharangovich when the team is fully healthy. Bringing in another 4th liner does not push the needle whatsoever. Idc if he can play the penalty kill because we have Nico , Mercer , Bastian , McLeod , Haual etc who all can do that. Fitz has done wonders but I wish we could get that 4th round pick back. Bringing him in for a 6th or 7th seems alot more ideal.
 
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Oneiro

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There's a natural adjustment for Meier. We play with more pace than SJ and everyone else, except for the Avs maybe, and that has consequences defensively and in transition. Hughes has skill and skating on par with Karlsson. I don't think Meier needs to change much or play with Nico or whatever, he just needs to play games.

I'm glad the expectations have been dialed back to a decade ago, complete with obsessing over the attention to detail and lack of execution. Last night was about the boys taking some medicine and the more of that they can get before the postseason, the better. The team is close but, outside of injuries, the inexperience and self-owns are probably what will prevent them from getting it done this year.

But on another note...I just have trouble seeing Luke Hughes doing little for this team once he's playing. I think he'll steal that 3LD spot pretty quickly. Half of the goals are failed breakouts compounding into an open look.
 

Jason MacIsaac

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What a douche way to bring up the goaltending conversation, yikes.

A newish goalie who put up a great stretch of hockey in his first season a Devil? Who is also charismatic? Yeah, no shit everyone loves him. How the hell can you not?

This doesn’t take away his play of the last ten games. He does need to be better.

Was that so hard?

Miles Wood appears to be a really nice guy as well. Being nice doesn't change the fact that VV plays the most important position on the Devils and has been terrible the last 12 games. I'm only combative to the posters that come back with, it's the defense's fault or look at his record. Schmid has been making the breakaway/2 on 1 saves that VV hasn't. Schmid has been controlling the rebounds that VV hasn't. Schmid handles the puck 1000x better than VV.
 
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Jason MacIsaac

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Somehow this guy was a hockey scout back in the day ? I used to actually like reading his posts but his track record for projecting what Devils prospect's and such would be is pretty awful. Literally most of the stuff he posts or projects is not right.


Still don't get why Fitz wasted a 4th round pick for Lazar. Whatever happens in the playoffs this year is all gravy. We deff set out with expectations and I'm all for upgrading the team but brining in a player who has 5 points in 40 something games doesn't really upgrade your team. We literally are sitting Sharangovich when the team is fully healthy. Bringing in another 4th liner does not push the needle whatsoever. Idc if he can play the penalty kill because we have Nico , Mercer , Bastian , McLeod , Haual etc who all can do that. Fitz has done wonders but I wish we could get that 4th round pick back. Bringing him in for a 6th or 7th seems alot more ideal.
Your complaint is with Lazar...for a 4th. A player that actually played quite well last night. Great timing! Keep puking on your keyboard, sometimes puke sticks.
 
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Jason MacIsaac

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I think everyone knows Vanecek was most likely a band-aid. It would've been stupid to go all in a goalie if the skaters in front of the goalie didn't improve or had a fall back year 5v5. FWIW, he had some of the best stats 5v5 the last few years so that's why the Devils probably went after him too.
I have no issue with Devils signing VV or riding him while he was hot and I agree he was a suitable bandaid. I have an issue if NJ ties themselves to him instead of running with the hot hand, which is clearly Schmid. Hell, if Blackwood comes back and gets hot I want them to ride him.
 

ninetyeight

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I have no issue with Devils signing VV or riding him while he was hot and I agree he was a suitable bandaid. I have an issue if NJ ties themselves to him instead of running with the hot hand, which is clearly Schmid. Hell, if Blackwood comes back and gets hot I want them to ride him.

Well the hot hand was V after his shutout performance, you can't blame Ruff for playing him. But yeah Schmid should be #1 for now, based on what we seen so far. Vitek has 1 great game and 9 bad/average games in his last 10. If this his new normal I doubt his charisma alone is gonna be enough for the fans.
 
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SJinNewJersey

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Miles Wood appears to be a really nice guy as well. Being nice doesn't change the fact that VV plays the most important position on the Devils and has been terrible the last 12 games. I'm only combative to the posters that come back with, it's the defense's fault or look at his record. Schmid has been making the breakaway/2 on 1 saves that VV hasn't. Schmid has been controlling the rebounds that VV hasn't. Schmid handles the puck 1000x better than VV.
What are you talking about, the last 12 games have been terrible? The last 7 haven't been great (still 4-3 in those games), but the 5 before that were 4 wins and OT loss. That's not a fact you are talking about.

Jan 27 Dallas win .943
Feb 6 Vancouver win .867
Feb 11 Minny OT, .917
Feb 14 CBJ, Win, 939
Feb 18 Pitt, Win .935
 

Devs3cups

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I think everyone knows Vanecek was most likely a band-aid. It would've been stupid to go all in a goalie if the skaters in front of the goalie didn't improve or had a fall back year 5v5. FWIW, he had some of the best stats 5v5 the last few years so that's why the Devils probably went after him too.
Vitek is perfectly average, maybe slightly above average, which is what we needed. He was super good, and then it feel like market correction started to settle in. His last 12 or so games have been bad.

We just need him to be average to a little above average.
 

SJinNewJersey

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Vitek is perfectly average, maybe slightly above average, which is what we needed. He was super good, and then it feel like market correction started to settle in. His last 12 or so games have been bad.

We just need him to be average to a little above average.
Where does this fictious last 12 games come from?

The last 7 haven't been great (still 4-3 in those games), but the 5 before that were 4 wins and OT loss.

Jan 27 Dallas win .943
Feb 6 Vancouver win .867
Feb 11 Minny OT, .917
Feb 14 CBJ, Win, 939
Feb 18 Pitt, Win .935
 

Devs3cups

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What are you talking about, the last 12 games have been terrible? The last 7 haven't been great (still 4-3 in those games), but the 5 before that were 4 wins and OT loss. That's not a fact you are talking about.

Jan 27 Dallas win .943
Feb 6 Vancouver win .867
Feb 11 Minny OT, .917
Feb 14 CBJ, Win, 939
Feb 18 Pitt, Win .935
In his last 12 games Vitek has allowed 36 goals on 28 xGA (-8 GSAx) with a .890 sv% and a 3.04 GAA.

If you take his last 7, he has allowed 24 goals on 15.12 xGA (-8.88 GSAx) with a .862 sv% and a 3.59 GAA.

Devils goalie stats for the team’s last 20 games
 
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SJinNewJersey

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In his last 12 games Vitek has allowed 36 goals on 28 xGA (-8 GSAx) with a .890 sv% and a 3.04 GAA.

If you take his last 7, he has allowed 24 goals on 15.12 xGA (-8.88 GSAx) with a .862 sv% and a 3.59 GAA.

Devils goalie stats for the team’s last 20 games
The 5 before the last 7 were fine. 4 wins and an OT loss, 4 of the games save percentage of .917 or better. You consider that bad?
 
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Devs3cups

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The 5 before the last 7 were fine. 4 wins and an OT loss, 4 of the games save percentage of .917 or better. You consider that bad?
I mean, you’re right, I guess? I went on Natural Stat Trick and sorted by the last 20 games and those results came up. The overall results aren’t good still and I guess the performance from the last 1-1.5 weeks have really brought the rest down.

I’m not more encouraged because he was better 7 games ago instead of 12 games ago. .862 sv%, 3.59 GAA and a -8.88 GSAx in his last 7 is very bad, especially when there’s a shutout in there from the Carolina game.
 

NJDevs26

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In his last 12 games Vitek has allowed 36 goals on 28 xGA (-8 GSAx) with a .890 sv% and a 3.04 GAA.

If you take his last 7, he has allowed 24 goals on 15.12 xGA (-8.88 GSAx) with a .862 sv% and a 3.59 GAA.

Devils goalie stats for the team’s last 20 games
That's the point...the 'last twelve games' has been heavily influenced by the last seven. It's okay to say he's had seven games where he's mostly been bad, you don't have to tack on more games which actually increase his numbers to make this sound like a longer sag than it has been, and one of THOSE seven he actually had a shutout.
 

NJDevs26

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Y’all keep dragging Vitek’s name in the mud, it should be Hamilton’s.
I mean Dougie has his issues but you gotta be really picky to think a guy who's going to set the all-time team record for goals and be second all-time in points for a season by a defenseman is somehow a net negative even with whatever mistakes he makes on the other end.
 

MadDevil

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I mean, you’re right, I guess? I went on Natural Stat Trick and sorted by the last 20 games and those results came up. The overall results aren’t good still and I guess the performance from the last 1-1.5 weeks have really brought the rest down.

I’m not more encouraged because he was better 7 games ago instead of 12 games ago. .862 sv%, 3.59 GAA and a -8.88 GSAx in his last 7 is very bad, especially when there’s a shutout in there from the Carolina game.
I just checked that myself and laughed pretty hard at the rebound attempts against in our last 20 games. Vitek had 35 in 12 games, Blackwood had 32 in just 4 games.:laugh:
 
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