Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part VI

[NHL Fanatik]

I understand Hischier's line has been stellar but I really do not want Meier Hughes Bratt being a line in the playoffs

 

[Perfect Human]

Red Wings fan who used to cheer for Jamie Langenbrunner and the devils when the wings were in the west.

Curious about the potential for Severson to be resigned. Seems there are several good D in New Jersey and more on the way. Is he part of the immediate future?

Thanks and good luck in the playoffs, pulling for Tatar to get a cup!

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I understand Hischier's line has been stellar but I really do not want Meier Hughes Bratt being a line in the playoffs

Why? Three of the best players in the NHL.

 

[Bleedred]

Red Wings fan who used to cheer for Jamie Langenbrunner and the devils when the wings were in the west.

Curious about the potential for Severson to be resigned. Seems there are several good D in New Jersey and more on the way. Is he part of the immediate future?

Thanks and good luck in the playoffs, pulling for Tatar to get a cup!

I don't think he's a part of the future. Most of us feel that way.

He'll be a cap casualty. The fact we have a couple of young and pretty good prospects on D should help soften the blow, though I think we'll miss him for the first year or two.

That's why I say, we should go for it this year.

 

[Eggtimer]

Red Wings fan who used to cheer for Jamie Langenbrunner and the devils when the wings were in the west.

Curious about the potential for Severson to be resigned. Seems there are several good D in New Jersey and more on the way. Is he part of the immediate future?

Thanks and good luck in the playoffs, pulling for Tatar to get a cup!

Very unlikely he is kept. We would love to keep him but I cannot see a way we can afford to unless he takes a massive discount . Very unlikely to happen .

 

[MauDevils]

Red Wings fan who used to cheer for Jamie Langenbrunner and the devils when the wings were in the west.

Curious about the potential for Severson to be resigned. Seems there are several good D in New Jersey and more on the way. Is he part of the immediate future?

Thanks and good luck in the playoffs, pulling for Tatar to get a cup!

Highly unlikely we re-sign him. With Nemec coming in a year or two and Marino and Hamilton locked up, we wouldn't give Damon the term he'll get elsewhere.

Good player, but he's just prone to having every one of his mistakes ending up in the back of your net.

 

[NHL Fanatik]

Why? Three of the best players in the NHL.

Id like to keep Timo and Jack separate as they both generate a ton of shots. plus I think that line almost has too much skill and they overthink plays

Mainly though I think Hischier-Meier is the duo going forward, they really do work so well together.

For the playoffs id love some super balanced lines;

Tatar-Hischier-Meier
Palat-Hughes-Bratt
Boqvist-Haula-Mercer

Then maybe next season stick Mercer on Jacks line? Dawson has developed quite a shot this year. Or Holtz. My concern though is mainly for the playoffs

In a fun hypothetical where you keep Tatar and Haula at same price you could run three deep lines;

Tatar-Hischier-Meier
Palat-Hughes-Holtz
Bratt-Haula-Mercer

Talk about a super top-9 if Holtz pans out huh lol

 

[Oneiro]

I think Carolina's issue is they will only acquire or voluntarily pay players below market value. I get it. That's how you win cups in the cap world. That said, if you have a team with value players you can splurge on a couple of necessary players. Like NJ with Hamilton. He fit an obvious glaring need for NJ. They had to pay market value. His contract will be an albatross at the end but hopefully they get five years out of it before then. Carolina just seems unwilling right now to really "go for it" in my view which is strange given that their window closes in two years if they really stick to their value model.

i think people are probably anchoring to the Aho/Staal/Slavin/Pesce timeline whereas I could see Tulsky fixated on a Svech/Jarvis/Nikishin+ window with the first group as complements. I don’t think they want to force anything if it’s not there.

And Meier-Hughes-Bratt will get there. Flow state thing, let them play and become automatic.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I don't make judgements on players' personalities. I'm just saying the defensively deficient DeAngelo did reasonably well with them last year, and they probably have the same hopes for Gostisbehere.

Fair enough, and it's a good, egalitarian policy you've got, but DeAngelo's complete psychological implosion and Carolina's refusal to healthy scratch him were huge contributing factors to the Rangers upsetting the Hurricanes in last year's playoffs. Character really matters in NHL.

 

[theoptimist]

I understand Hischier's line has been stellar but I really do not want Meier Hughes Bratt being a line in the playoffs

If we're desperate it will be Hughes-Haula-Bratt

 

[glenwo2]

You do realize PK was responding to Mark Messier at the time.

And Subban was trying to defend an indefensible hit by TJ Oshie to one of the people responsible for developing the guidelines?

You do realize this is just a way to mock you, right?

 

[Guttersniped]

Haha, are we really ruling out Tampa? I mean, I'd love to rule them out but I just see them coming out of that division again this year, despite how sick it would make me inside. Just so much talent, a team built to win in both regular season and playoffs, and one of the top two goalies on earth in Vasilevskiy.

Right now, if I was forced to do my nhl.com playoff bracket, I think I'd have Conference finals as Tampa vs. New Jersey and Colorado vs. Edmonton, but I think it's been 3 years since I've won any type of NHL bracket pool so maybe I'm just over the hill.

McDonagh’s loss is tough since his shutdown pair with Cernak was so critical to their defense. That pair led their defense in minutes year after year in all three Cup Final appearances.

Rutta is another pretty big loss. (That’s how thin their defense is.) Hedman has always played with randos but Rutta worked well with him.

Not saying letting either guy go was wrong, but it’s nearly impossible to replace those guys without any cap space to spend on new guys.

It looks like the Cole-Cernak pairing has worked pretty well.

Bogosian hasn’t been very good with Hedman, who’s had a down season. Foote basically washed out. They’ve turned to their classic random filler (Nicklaus Perbix, Haydn Fleury, Darren Raddysh).

Not sure where their defense ends up at the end of the season. They always got lucky with health there because that’s where they’ve lacked depth.

 

[glenwo2]

god protect us you don't pick geertsen

 

[NjDevsRR]

The constant need by some to break up the hottest first line in hockey is bewildering to me.

 

[glenwo2]

I'm kidding, @TBF1972 .




....really.

 

[TBF1972]

I'm kidding, @TBF1972 .




....really.

i was already considering throwing my wonderbra on stage, when bratt rocks the house.

 

[NHL Fanatik]

it's almost like we have to just put it out of our minds and just focus on the season or something.


But but but...if i'm not bitching about it, how will I survive?

Issue there is playoffs end and then we dont have a lot of time to entertain a trade before the draft

This signing really needed to be done in-season

 

[glenwo2]

Hm, no Bastian on the ice today and Lazar in place there.

Smith back rotating in for Bahl as of now too.

Also all 3 goalies are on the ice.

So Lazar LIVES!!

Also, good to finally see the 2nd and 3rd lines back to what they should be.

Would love for Meier to cut down on the Penalties, though.

(That would be great. Thanks)

 

[Nubmer6]

So Lazar LIVES!!

Lazarus.

 

[Rhodes 81]

Red Wings fan who used to cheer for Jamie Langenbrunner and the devils when the wings were in the west.

Curious about the potential for Severson to be resigned. Seems there are several good D in New Jersey and more on the way. Is he part of the immediate future?

Thanks and good luck in the playoffs, pulling for Tatar to get a cup!

Severson is the 3rd best D on the team, but the two ahead of him play the same side and are signed long term. I think he'll be the best D to hit the market this year so somebody will pay him much more than we can afford to.

We will miss him a lot more than some around here are ready to admit.

 

[Whaddagoal]

Severson is the 3rd best D on the team, but the two ahead of him play the same side and are signed long term. I think he'll be the best D to hit the market this year so somebody will pay him much more than we can afford to.

We will miss him a lot more than some around here are ready to admit.

Agree with this assessment 100%

I secretly hope we can keep Sevs but based on roster alignment and depth it is hard to see it possible.

 

[My3Sons]

i think people are probably anchoring to the Aho/Staal/Slavin/Pesce timeline whereas I could see Tulsky fixated on a Svech/Jarvis/Nikishin+ window with the first group as complements. I don’t think they want to force anything if it’s not there.

And Meier-Hughes-Bratt will get there. Flow state thing, let them play and become automatic.

I see that second group as a bit of a downgrade from the first one. Take away Aho and I'm not sure they can generate much in the way of two way play. Svech and Jarvis are talented but both wings. I'm not sure I'm seeing it if they lose the current core to UFA. They lowballed Hamilton and then traded for 37 year old Burns to play the same role. So far so good but he's light years older than Hamilton and so more likely to fall off the cliff sooner. I'm just seeing too much adherence to a numbers model without enough thought to actual team building. They are an excellent team so we will see what happens in two years.

 

[Triumph]

I sincerely doubt the Isles dealing for Horvat took Carolina's management by surprise. I honestly think the hubris associated with the Kotkaniemi signing is just obliterating the Hurricanes' Stanley Cup chances. The Kotkaniemi move cost the Canes a 1st and 3rd rounder and hurt their ability to re-sign a Norris-level defenseman in Dougie Hamilton. Then, refusing to admit their mistake after Kotkaniemi was awful last year, they gave him a multi-year $5 million deal and let a very good 2C in Vinny Trocheck go so they could give Kotkaniemi top-line minutes.

This year, Kotkaniemi has struggled all year long. He can't even average half a point per game despite playing huge 5x5 and PP minutes with some outstanding wingers on a contending team. But Carolina refuses to admit this mistake, they just keep doubling down on the same mistake over and over again. I think there's 31 NHL GMs who see Carolina as desperate for a 2C and Carolina's management team is still trying to convince themselves that Jersperi Kotkaniemi is Evgeni Malkin so they can continue to stick their collective tongues out at Montreal for something which happened three years ago.

As for Gostisbehere, there's just no defending that move. I won't compare him to DeAngelo because Gostisbehere is a good kid and DeAngelo is a pretty lousy human, but neither one of them can defend at an NHL level or even close.

Again, it's tough for me to criticize Carolina's management completely because I love their scouting team. I feel they've drafted about as well as any NHL team over the past half-decade. But imagining this team if they had never made the Kotkaniemi signing -- well, it's an alternative universe where the Hurricanes might be the class of the league. Let's say they kept that 1st and 3rd round pick in 2022, then re-signed Hamilton and never bothered with DeAngelo. Even if they lost Trocheck as a UFA this year, the picks they threw away on Kotkaniemi could have been packaged to easily outbid the Islanders on Bo Horvat. And if anyone would argue about the salary cap, let's keep in mind that Hamilton + Horvat = $13 million in 2022-23, while Kotkaniemi + Gostisbehere = $10 million -- it's not much of a difference. The biggest insult to Carolina has to be the fact that Trocheck is playing with the Rangers and Hamilton with the Devils -- the team which knocked them out of the playoffs last year and the team likely to knock them out of 1st place this year.

You have a truly stunning ability to not look things up when you spout off like this with a grandiose theory. Kotkaniemi does not play 'huge 5v5 and PP minutes'. He plays 15 minutes a game. That's 3C minutes. He has the 8th most minutes per game on the team for forwards. Again, 3C minutes. He plays on the 2nd power play unit. These aren't huge minutes. He does play with some of the best players on the team and doesn't score many points, but part of that is that his IPP is wildly low this season. He's not pulling his weight financially but he's not a huge liability, and almost every other team in the East has a bigger one on their roster, or did.

The Hurricanes didn't get rid of Hamilton because they signed Kotkaniemi, they didn't sign Hamilton because they think more than a year ahead. They weren't willing to commit the amount of money the Devils did to him, not even close. Hamilton and Horvat will cost $10M more than Kotkaniemi + Gostisbehere next season.

1. Are we talking about Max Pacioretty? He's got three career points in Carolina. He's played 80 games over the past three seasons combined -- if you trade for an injury-plagued player, you cannot act shocked and unprepared when they get hurt.

This is some solid post-hoc reasoning - Pacioretty played 80 games out of a combined 138 the last two seasons. They traded for him and he got injured training in the off-season. Then he came back and immediately got hurt again.

2. I'm going to respectfully disagree with with the idea that Carolina "decided" to stand pat while everyone around them "blew out their top assets trying to get better". The Devils' top "tradable" assets going into the trade deadline were likely -- in order -- Luke Hughes, Nemec, Holtz, Mukhamadullin, Gritsyuk, 2023 1st round pick (mid-to-late-20s), Casey. NJ gave up their 4th and 6th biggest assets and held onto their top 3 to get a winger who would represent the best winger on Carolina. Personally, I'd say there was no "decision", I'd just say Tom Fitzgerald is simply a superior GM to Tom Waddell right now.

This is silly, the Devils are dealing from a position of massive strength because they've been awful for the last 5 years, and the 'Canes are not dealing from that same strength. It doesn't matter what tier of the Devils prospects they dealt from - they have a huge stable and no matter what they did for Meier, they were going to keep most of their top prospects.

3. I'd agree with you that the Canes' cap situation is not all that bad, and Staal will likely agree to a team-friendly deal next year. I'd also say goaltending shouldn't be an issue, as most scouts are pretty high on the potential of Kochetkov, who is the future in net in Carolina by all indication.

The 'Canes cap situation is phenomenal next season (and next season alone). After 2024 it gets tougher with Necas and Pesce being free agents, but their cap situation is far superior to ours and probably anyone's in the Eastern Conference. They of course have to take advantage of that.

4. The idea that Horvat is not good defensively is silly. The idea he doesn't "fit" with what Carolina is trying to do is silly. Right now, he gets paid $800,000 less than Kotkaniemi to be a better 2C in every single aspect we can possibly imagine. Carolina's biggest problem is that "what they're trying to do" is continue to prove to Montreal that the Kotkaniemi deal makes them smarter. The Canadiens just went and took the assets gained from Kotkaniemi and used them to help acquire Kirby Dach, who is also a superior player to Kotkaniemi for almost $2 million less per season.

Again, I'm not attacking you or Carolina here. I've just talked with a few people in the hockey journalism world about Carolina's plan, and I'm not so sure they actually have one which outweighs a desire to wave a magic wand and turn Jesperi Kotkaniemi into Sasha Barkov.

You are inventing a bunch of asinine reasons why an organization which is otherwise completely ruthless with regard to improving their team year after year is somehow fixated on one player. You've also got the Kirby Dach deal all wrong, which doesn't even need to be mentioned - the main piece in that deal was Alex Romanov who went to the Islanders, the Islanders pick went to Montreal, and they traded that to Chicago for Dach.

 

[Its Always Sundstrom]

Novo on the Marek show/podcast today.

 

[My3Sons]

The constant need by some to break up the hottest first line in hockey is bewildering to me.

What are you talking about, Meier has yet to click with Hughes and Bratt.