Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part V

[OmNomNom]

3 way trade perhaps?

 

[Cheddabombs]

3 way trade perhaps?

 

[Billdo]

Sounds like Timo or bust to me

I try to think of others I'd like to get and tbh I keep going back to the bottom 6. I have started to really dislike Miles Wood and would look up to upgrade there. If we miss out on Meirer I'm addressing that and adding a depth defenseman.

 

[Unknown Caller]

I'm not the biggest Severson fan at all but what the hell would we have done when Marino went down and him not on the team. As much as he makes me nuts the dude is never hurt and eats tons of minutes. It's kind of crazy, it doesn't phase him, he could probably play 30 minutes if asked. That being said I don't want him on the first pairing, our D has been massively improved with him playing down in the lineup with less minutes.

I'd hate to not get anything for him when he's off to FA next year but I think he's too valuable to us down the stretch and in the playoffs. We're talking about possibly plugging in one of 2 kids who never played a minute in the NHL, that could backfire massively.

I'm not really nostalgic about players at all and feel that they deserve something (like keeping him around after being on shit teams). He's an asset and should be used as such to improve the team overall. If it takes him to get Meier I might be for it but again it could totally backfire.

It's clearly been a long time since a lot of people here have been invested in playoff hockey because rolling rookie defensemen with zero NHL experience in April might be the most asinine idea of all time. Let's not forget that Hughes and Nemec had defensive issues in the World Juniors against 19 year olds and you think you're just going to roll them out there against Mika Zibanejad, Chris Kreider, Artemi Panarin and Vladamir Tarasenko and not miss a beat?

Experienced impact defensemen like Mackenzie Weegar and John Marino were scapegoats in the playoffs last year and run out of town. I have zero interest in exposing kids like Nemec and Hughes to that before they've played a minute of hockey against NHL size and speed.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I try to think of others I'd like to get and tbh I keep going back to the bottom 6. I have started to really dislike Miles Wood and would look up to upgrade there. If we miss out on Meirer I'm addressing that and adding a depth defenseman.

A bottom 6 rental in theory shouldn't cost a ton either so maybe something Fitz looks into.

The cap makes all this tricky, especially if we are trying to squeeze Timo in

 

[Guttersniped]

Under discussed aspect of Meier is that SJS still haven’t given his agent permission to speak to other teams. That makes me wonder how willing they are to trade actually trade him. Might just be listening to offers to see if someone blows them away.

I guess they could just be waiting for an adequate deal to be in place first rather than just letting him talk around to teams. Like if a team gives them an acceptable offer or things are getting close they could give permission to that team.

I assume they want a trade in place first, it’s been done that way before. (I mentioned this before but throwing out there again.)

When Vegas negotiated the trade for Mark Stone with Ottawa at the 2019 TDL, it was contingent on him agreeing to an extension with Vegas.

The two teams agreed to the trade itself with less than an hour left before the TDL.

Then Vegas and Stone’s agent hammered out the basic numbers for his extension in ~20 minutes.

They were very pressed for time because if Vegas couldn’t get an extension done and the trade fell through, then Ottawa needed a few minutes to trade Stone as a rental to a different team.

IIRC the team was thought to be Nashville, who then traded for Wayne Simmonds at the last minute.

The Flyers got Ryan Hartman and 2020 4th for Simmonds.

They used the 4th to rent Ryan Grant from the Ducks at the 2020 TDL (Grant re-signed with Anaheim in the off-season.)

In June 2019, the Flyers traded Ryan Hartman’s signing rights to Dallas for Tyler Pitlick.

This led to a classic, yes I said classic, off-season story where people thought Hartman was camping in such a remote area that he didn’t even know he was traded.

Well, by “people”, I mean his Mom.

Turned out he just didn’t call his mom.



Dallas didn’t qualify him and Hartman signed with the Wild as a UFA on July 1st.

Tyler Pitlick left Philly as a UFA in Oct 2020 to go exist in Arizona.

What were we talking about again?

 

[JK3]

It's clearly been a long time since a lot of people here have been invested in playoff hockey because rolling rookie defensemen with zero NHL experience in April might be the most asinine idea of all time. Let's not forget that Hughes and Nemec had defensive issues in the World Juniors against 19 year olds and you think you're just going to roll them out there against Mika Zibanejad, Chris Kreider, Artemi Panarin and Vladamir Tarasenko and not miss a beat?

Experienced impact defensemen like Mackenzie Weegar and John Marino were scapegoats in the playoffs last year and run out of town. I have zero interest in exposing kids like Nemec and Hughes to that before they've played a minute of hockey against NHL size and speed.

Yeah it's a bit too much to ask of these kids, what happens if Severson is gone AND someone else goes down, ooooof.

Then again are we really in a go for it balls to the wall approach though? Do we try to maximize our assets for the future, our window is just now opening albeit a few years before what I thought. This season is kinda gravy to me, I guess if you're in it you're in it (playoffs wise) so you may want to go for it anyway, it's a tough decision either way.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

No Kane please. McCabe?

 

[BurntToast]

The Sev’s trade talk is bitter sweet. I was semi attacked in the Nemec tread for saying they should probably trade Sev’s.

1) I think a series with the Rangers is a crapshoot and they have bolstered their roster. The easier teams should be knocked out round 1.

2) Luke Hughes and Nemec could fill the void. They are the future and the experience would be valuable. Plus, you have the other defenseman who filled in all year. The depth is still pretty solid. Don’t worry too much, they don’t call penalties in the playoffs.

3) Returns on defenseman tend to be lucrative. Plus, it free’s up cap, to add more offense. Sev’s is 100% out, this summer. You have multiple prospects on the doorstep.

 

[NJDevilsFan21]

I don't really get trading Severson unless the idea is to clear cap for a big move

As good a season we've been having, I don't Severson being a piece that prevents this team from winning it all. This team is likely to get bounced due their total lack of experience.

Severson's return target should be a 2023 2nd (early round). Combine that with our late 2023 1st and this team is getting a solid upgrade somewhere. If not at the deadline, then there will be other options this summer.

People seem to be under the impression that letting him walk is NBD, when it actually is. We effectively lose a 2024 mid/late 1st in value. And for what? So we could maybe reach the second round this year?

 

[Emperoreddy]

The issue is our depth. If you trade Severson and then Marino or Dougie gets hurt, you are asking someone like Smith to play their off side on top of playing a raw rookie in Nemec.

That can turn into a major disaster real quickly.

Severson was vital to help us keep winning while Marino was out

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

As good a season we've been having, I don't Severson being a piece that prevents this team from winning it all. This team is likely to get bounced due their total lack of experience.

Severson's return target should be a 2023 2nd (early round). Combine that with our late 2023 1st and this team is getting a solid upgrade somewhere. If not at the deadline, then there will be other options this summer.

People seem to be under the impression that letting him walk is NBD, when it actually is. We effectively lose a 2024 mid/late 1st in value. And for what? So we could maybe reach the second round this year?

Trading Severson for a 2nd round pick would be a slap in the face to the team and the fans. They’d never do that.

 

[Eggtimer]

I don't really get trading Severson unless the idea is to clear cap for a big move

Or multiple moves . Something like adding Meier plus one or more of these types - Jeannot , Gudas , Bertuzzi , Bennet ). Those types , not specifically those guys .

Moving Severson makes no sense unless they're confident in Hughes or Nemec AND the assets gained are significant towards filling other voids like our bottom 6 or for Meier

I think Severson is better than any realistic replacement that can be found via a trade unless we use a ton of assets (that I dint want to . It’s Meier or bust ) .


ONLY reason Severson should be moved ( I dont think he should at all , but I can somewhat understand it if it’s this ) is if we need more or different assets for a Meier trade and tradig Severosn gets those . Or if Fotz thinks we need to tweek our D and or bottom 6 a little . Maybe thinks Seversons type is redundant or need some more beef ?

 

[NJDevilsFan21]

Trading Severson for a 2nd round pick would be a slap in the face to the team and the fans. They’d never do that.

He's not someone signed to a few more years to a cap we no longer want with Nemec and Casey as the 4th string in the pipeline. He's a UFA. It's not hard to see that in this very specific scenario, it makes a lot of sense to move him.

And if he's traded, he's likely heading to a contender. That's a hardly a slap in the face to him, as he ends up on a team with an equal if not better shot to win this year.

As for the fans, they're going to wondering why we didn't trade him when he walks this summer, and instead we need to dig into our 2024 1st round pick and onward to make the next big move - something we could have easily. In a year you're really making a run, that's a very least worth a high end rental that pushes us over the top. A lot of you severely undervalue what futures mean for contending teams. The fact they don't have to bother making (or gambling on) the pick is already huge.

 

[Eggtimer]

I can’t see Fitz thinking that they can throw a rookie out there withiut any NHl experience into the playoffs for their very first taste of NHL hockey ….

 

[NJDevilsFan21]

If they trade Sevs they probably aren't dressing Nemec, but someone who has already seen some action this season like Bahl or Okhotiuk. Neither of who I'm a fan of. But that's what I would expect. Followed by L. Hughes to debut next season, with Nemec and others rotating that last RD spot if he needs more time at a lower level. That's assuming Graves is extended too. Of which he should be if we can get him for $4M or less to lock up that left side with Smith as the 4th string.

 

[Triumph]

He's not someone signed to a few more years to a cap we no longer want with Nemec and Casey as the 4th string in the pipeline. He's a UFA. It's not hard to see that in this very specific scenario, it makes a lot of sense to move him.

And if he's traded, he's likely heading to a contender. That's a hardly a slap in the face to him, as he ends up on a team with an equal if not better shot to win this year.

As for the fans, they're going to wondering why we didn't trade him when he walks this summer, and instead we need to dig into our 2024 1st round pick and onward to make the next big move - something we could have easily. In a year you're really making a run, that's a very least worth a high end rental that pushes us over the top. A lot of you severely undervalue what futures mean for contending teams. The fact they don't have to bother making (or gambling on) the pick is already huge.

Nobody outside of boards like this thinks about UFAs this way. Fans don't give a shit about an extra 2nd round pick. People who like to talk hockey in August do.

The Devils are sitting on the biggest pile of futures in the league. They don't need to toss away a guy in the present for a future asset.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Also if we somehow need the assets from a Severson trade to get Timo, then we most likely are not getting Timo at all

 

[Billdo]

As good a season we've been having, I don't Severson being a piece that prevents this team from winning it all. This team is likely to get bounced due their total lack of experience.

Severson's return target should be a 2023 2nd (early round). Combine that with our late 2023 1st and this team is getting a solid upgrade somewhere. If not at the deadline, then there will be other options this summer.

People seem to be under the impression that letting him walk is NBD, when it actually is. We effectively lose a 2024 mid/late 1st in value. And for what? So we could maybe reach the second round this year?

Seversons return is not a 2nd unless there's a decent prospect coming with it, he'd get a first at a deadline from a contender with room especially if we retained but we could be that contender. I'm not moving him for a 2nd unless we're blown away by whatever's attached to it OR he's part of something big. I like Severson, he deserves to run this out.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Selling an important player for a pick when we look destined for a playoff series against the Rangers would be loser behavior.

 

[Bleedred]

Fans are much more worried about a player walking for nothing than GM's and front offices are.

That's been proven by a few posters in here already.

 

[NJDevilsFan21]

Also if we somehow need the assets from a Severson trade to get Timo, then we most likely are not getting Timo at all

I suspect if Grier has a "buy it now" price on Timo, it would be something like:

2023 1st + Holtz + Casey/Muk + assets received from Severson

Which is kind of an overpayment (Casey/Muk may even be replaced by a lower tier prospect), but at the same time a player like Meier who fits the needs to the team so perfectly, and is also young enough to be a part of this core for a while making him a once in a decade type of opportunity - you make that trade. You don't let him to go to Carolina instead.

And who knows, maybe a trade like this also lights a fire under Bratt's ass to sign an extension.

 

[BurntToast]

Selling an important player for a pick when we look destined for a playoff series against the Rangers would be loser behavior.

Nah. Selling a guy, with L. Hughes/Nemec on the doorstep is 4D chess.

This team has a better chance of winning without Sev’s than Jack. Look at the funking depth on offense right meow.

Trading Sev’s wouldn’t be just to recoup assets it’s also to free up space.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Look at the funking depth on offense right meow.

yo this shit slaps

 

[NJDevs26]

Fans are much more worried about a player walking for nothing than GM's and front offices are.

That's been proven by a few posters in here already.

What's funny about it is they - and GM's - clearly have no qualms about trading assets for players when in win-now mode, or at least contender mode so why would they care about having rentals for free?