Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part V

[JimEIV]

The critical thing here is the 'booming shot', which most of these guys that I am talking about specifically (Zubrus, Ponikarovsky, Handzus, Hanzal) did not have. They were heavy and tall and grinded games out in the corners. Zetterlund's similar but I wouldn't put him in this class.

I honestly was just busting chops...I knew what your point was from the beginning.

It's just those guys that you named Zubrus et al....they weren't drafted to be big grinding forwards...they were drafted to be Jagr or maybe more appropriately Mikeal Renberg...

To take a North American example Rob Niedermeyer wasn't drafted by Florida to be a checking center. They sort of failed to produce into those roles.

 

[Devils Trap]

If we cant get Timo, get me some veteran depth (ideally someone who plays a more physical game)

Nino Neiderreiter, Sam Lafferty etc

 

[Hisch13r]

If we cant get Timo, get me some veteran depth (ideally someone who plays a more physical game)

Nino Neiderreiter, Sam Lafferty etc

If we don't get Meier then gimme Vrana over Nino.

 

[DevilsHughes86]

If we cant get Timo, get me some veteran depth (ideally someone who plays a more physical game)

Nino Neiderreiter, Sam Lafferty etc

Not crazy about Lafferty but I do really like Nino and would have no problem!

 

[Bad Goalie]

I'm wouldn't necessarily agree that Nemec isn't as good if we are talking strictly defense.

Of course Nemec isn't the dynamic offensive player Luke is but in the small samples I have seen of Nemec, he understands the game and processes it very well.

Luke approaches the game with more raw talent...and when he reaches the NHL the raw talent thing simply won't work like it has up to now.

Edit: I'm sure he'll figure out what works and what doesn't but our defense may suffer while that is happening.

Following these Nemec/Hughes posts.
Nemec is not ready. He is going to be a good one if not very good! However, next season at 19 and still learning, he is best suited to do that in the AHL.

Hughes can play in the NHL, but his gambler mentality and not so good NHL level defensive talent, points to him starting his career at the AHL level. Perhaps he gets it by mid season and joins the Devils then. He could be a learn on the job talent, but is it NECESSARY? Can't the Devils be highly successful while this kid marinates for a bit?
Quinn put up points in his rookie season and wowed the fan base on a team going nowhere. He was carried by one of the best defensive D-men in the past decade+ in Chris Tanev. Tanev covered a plethora of Hughes mistakes. He has struggled mightily since Tanev left. His offensive numbers are still there, but he still struggles to be a good defensive player.
Luke is bigger and should take less time to figure it out and I believe he is going to be a Makar type offensively and has the skill set to be a good defender. I don't believe becoming the offensive D-man that ends up with big numbers, but is a liability on D like so many before him, isn't the goal NJ has in mind for him.

I'll wait and see how this plays out. I don't think putting him on the roster out of camp is technically "rushing him", but is learning on the job in order to sell more tickets the best plan overall? I'm not posting this to argue. Just airing an opinion.

 

[JimEIV]

Following these Nemec/Hughes posts.
Nemec is not ready. He is going to be a good one if not very good! However, next season at 19 and still learning, he is best suited to do that in the AHL.

Hughes can play inthe NHL, but his gambler mentality and not so good NHL level defensive talent, points to him starting his career at the AHL level. Perhaps he gets it by mid season and joins the Devils then. He could be a learn on the job talent, but is it NECESSARY? Can't the Devils be highly successful while this kid marinates for a bit?
Quinn put up points in his rookie season and wowed the fan base on a team going nowhere. He was carried by one of the best defensive D-men in the past decade+ in Chris Tanev. Tanev covered a plethora of Hughes mistakes. He has struggled mightily since Tanev left. His offensive numbers are still there, but he still struggles to be a good defensive player.
Luke is bigger and should take less time to figure it out and I believe he is going to be a Makar type offensively and has the skill set to be a good defender. I don't believe becoming the offensive D-man that ends up with big numbers, but is a liability on D like so many before him isn't the goal NJ has in mind. for him.

I'll wait and see how this plays out. I don't think putting him on the roster out of camp is technically "rushing him", but is learning on the job in order to sell more tickets the best plan overall? I'm not posting this to argue. Just airing an opinion.

Is this an honest assessment or more your desire to see a good Utica team...
(Regarding Nemec next season)

Be honest.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Not crazy about Lafferty but I do really like Nino and would have no problem!

Lafferty would be a great add, he's on a killer deal for next year too and would make the bottom 6 way better and you wouldn't have to bring back Haula (lol)

 

[DevilsHughes86]

Lafferty would be a great add, he's on a killer deal for next year too and would make the bottom 6 way better and you wouldn't have to bring back Haula (lol)

When you look at it that way sure lol.

He is having a solid season in Chicago to boot. Either one I'm good...

 

[Guttersniped]

Anything to not see Tatar next season

 

[Bcap88]

Depending on tatars asking price I would take him back on a one year deal anything more I would be hesitant

 

[Hisch13r]

Depending on tatars asking price I would take him back on a one year deal anything more I would be hesitant

I can't see the price being too high. I'm going to be f***ing pissed if he's not brought back.

 

[Bcap88]

I can see the hawks out pricing lafferty
It sounded like they wanted something rediculous for him

 

[Bad Goalie]

Is this an honest assessment or more your desire to see a good Utica team...
(Regarding Nemec next season)

Be honest.

I could be called "Honest Abe" on this assessment.

With what the Comets have coming back up front next season, unless NJ actually shops to build a team with 12 forwards who can actually play their position and put pucks in the net, Nemec won't be the guy who creates "a good Utica team". LOL

Goaltending and Defense were supposed to be this team's strength. They haven't come close to being able to compensate for the dismal production from their forwards.

 

[glenwo2]

That BIRD is still there??

 

[Capt Nico Poo]

Timo's not a rental. We're literally only getting him with an extension. I also don't see how we lack something "very fundamental". We're 3rd in the league with elite underlyings. What we lack is another elite winger. I wouldn't call that "fundamental" and Timo is a player who the elite winger mold. Now I'm not going crazy and overpaying but we could do a bit more than 1st, Holtz, 3rd/4th and it's still a fine deal.

Our team has played lately very hazardous hockey, especially defensively. When Jack was gone it seemed like the lifeline of the team was plugged off (somehow still managed to get a couple of wins).

The team is still very young and inexperienced, only time will fix that. Hence, the Timo deal is coming a year or two too soon.

I dont deny that he is a great fit, i just am very reserved at the kind of package we should give to land him. The rest of the team (core) has still miles to learn about winning. What if its a similar situation as the Horvat deal? Extension (if any) is negotiated post-trade?

Again, not saying Timo wouldnt help in almost all above regards. I just find him a tad over-hyped. Just like last summer when peeps on this board were willing to sign Gaudreau to like 8x12m deal.

Even if the slight overpayment happens i can live with that, just not as sold on him as many others seem to be.

 

[JimEIV]

I could be called "Honest Abe" on this assessment.

With what the Comets have coming back up front next season, unless NJ actually shops to build a team with 12 forwards who can actually play their position and put pucks in the net, Nemec won't be the guy who creates "a good Utica team". LOL

Goaltending and Defense were supposed to be this team's strength. They haven't come close to being able to compensate for the dismal production from their forwards.

if Nemec is in the AHL next year, his growth next season should be exponential. I would imagine seeing something similar to the growth we saw from Holtz. That could easily be the teams leading scorer or one of the top few

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Taylor Hall (b.1991) Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Statistics of Taylor Hall, a hockey player from Calgary, ALTA born Nov 14 1991 who was active from 2007 to 2024.

www.hockeydb.com

Dawson Mercer Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Statistics of Dawson Mercer, a hockey player from Carbonear, NFLD born Oct 27 2001 who was active from 2017 to 2024.

www.hockeydb.com

Thanks Hall for 2017-2018 but this trade looks more and more beautiful by the day. If we got Mercer + another prospect in this deal it'd be insanity but getting Bahl, 3rd which was flipped for Siegs, and then the better player 3 years into the deal is an absolute slam dunk and franchise changing.

 

[Devs3cups]

if Nemec is in the AHL next year, his growth next season should be exponential. I would imagine seeing something similar to the growth we do from Holtz. That could easily be the teams leading scorer or one of the top few

I think asking Nemec to be Utica’s top scorer in the AHL next year is setting yourself up for disappointment.

Here’s a list of the top scoring seasons for U20 D-men in the AHL:

Elite Prospects - AHL Stats All-time season

All-time/historical regular season stats and leaders per season for AHL, including top goal scorers, most games played, PPG leaders and more.

www.eliteprospects.com

I’d obviously expect a normal bump in production, this should come naturally for him, but him leading his team would be quite the achievement. For example, Simon Edvinsson, who’s in the same tier of D prospect as Nemec, currently has 23 points in 41 games with Grand Rapids in the AHL in his D+2 (19 y.o season).

 

[JimEIV]

I think asking Nemec to be Utica’s top scorer in the AHL next year is setting yourself up for disappointment.

Here’s a list of the top scoring seasons for U20 D-men in the AHL:

Elite Prospects - AHL Stats All-time season

All-time/historical regular season stats and leaders per season for AHL, including top goal scorers, most games played, PPG leaders and more.

www.eliteprospects.com

I’d obviously expect a normal bump in production, this should come naturally for him, but him leading his team would be quite the achievement. For example, Simon Edvinsson, who’s in the same tier of D prospect as Nemec, currently has 23 points in 41 games with Grand Rapids in the AHL in his D+2 (19 y.o season).

Edvinsson is currently 4th on his team in scoring. That's exactly what I am talking about.

 

[DevilsHughes86]

Depending on tatars asking price I would take him back on a one year deal anything more I would be hesitant

At 32, he will no doubt be looking for a 3-4 year deal, probably being his last one.

But I couldn't agree more, it's got to be a 1 year deal at a time with him, if he wants a 2 year deal it's gotta be real cheap, like 2.5 per which he wouldn't take in my opinion.

 

[OmNomNom]

 

[Devs3cups]

Edvinsson is currently 4th on his team in scoring. That's exactly what I am talking about.

Ah, fair enough then!

Edvinsson is at 0.56 PPG in his D+2, Nemec is at 0.41 in his D+1 with most likely much less PP time than Edvinsson. I agree that expecting similar production (about 0.6 PPG) from Nemec in his D+2 in the AHL is fair, especially since his PP time will most likely go up.

Edit: Also, Edvinsson would be 8th in scoring with Utica right now.

 

[Forge]

If we don't get Meier then gimme Vrana over Nino.

I keep going back and forth on Vrana. I'm super interested, super concerned

 

[Richer's Ghost]

I keep going back and forth on Vrana. I'm super interested, super concerned

Could be a real get and not expensive if it doesn't work out - DET is willing to retain salary. I think the ask is fairly low.

 

[Guttersniped]

It was sizzling, I just don't like his playstyle. His line changes suck, shot selections annoying, blah blah blah. I have a bias...

I'll never get the Tatar hate, such a smart player, always in the right place and often making the right play. The days of the big European forward are over, but I feel like a guy like Tatar occupies the niche of someone like Dainius Zubrus - rarely makes the flashy play but so reliable.

His line changes? Ok, lol

I don’t think his shot selection is bad at all but his finishing is kind of shot (heh).

He’s had a couple lately that he didn’t just sort of muscle in or that bounced off him though, like his sorta one timer vs Minny and last night’s backhand goal. Nice to see.

Tatar is an excellent possession player, he’s just on the puck carrier a lot. He works really well in this system and just about everyone plays better with him.

I’ll always treasure how the multi-named poster who endlessly dragged @Hisch13r and others over the Tatar signing in the off-season to a ludicrous degree.

Just on and on about his awful he is and how he was always was a floating, defensively suspect product of his linemates in the Tatar-Danault-Gally line. And how wrong about hockey they are for liking the signing.

And turns out he can roughly be that same player further down the age curve (minus the same PP production, alas). So yeah.

Not so bad for a last call pick-up signed in August after everyone else turned Fitzy down at the bar.

Spoiler: Tatar vs Tatar