Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

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SteveCangialosi123

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Just putting it out there that Kaapo Kahkonen saved 24.6 goals below expected last year, 13.1 goals below expected with Minnesota in 2020-21, and 2.6 goals below expected with Minnesota in 2019-20.

He's had a .934 sv% to date with the Devils which is astromically higher than anything he's done in his career. It's going to come down.

What he's doing is nice, but you cannot rely on him after this season.
I’m warming to the idea of Allen and Kahkonen, especially if they’re both on deals that expire at the end of next. I wouldn’t give any term to him though. There is decent organizational depth behind them with Daws and Schmid that have both shown some NHL potential at times.

There is certainly risk to a Marstrom deal. We’d likely give up our 1st, a young player, plus have to pay him more than an Allen-Kahkonen duo combined. Those are assets and cap space we can’t use to upgrade the rest of the roster. Saros, of course you go for that if you can.
 
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Triumph

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One thing I'm glad about with all the bellyaching about Sharangovich is that these days nobody questions whether Luke Hughes or Simon Nemec were the right picks. There will obviously come a time for that down the road, but these guys have been by far the best players available at those draft slots so far.

I’m warming to the idea of Allen and Kahkonen, especially if they’re both on deals that expire at the end of next. I wouldn’t give any term to him though. There is decent organizational depth behind them with Daws and Schmid that have both shown some NHL potential at times.

There is certainly risk to a Marstrom deal. We’d likely give up our 1st, a young player, plus have to pay him more than an Allen-Kahkonen duo combined. Those are assets and cap space we can’t use to upgrade the rest of the roster. Saros, of course you go for that if you can.

If the Devils were to give up their 1st in a Markstrom deal, they will get Vancouver's 1st back. There's no way that Calgary is getting the ~10th overall pick for Jacob Markstrom.
 

Better Call Sal

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That's good stuff from Fitz in that Athletic article.

Again, I think anyone who questions him as a GM is solely reacting on emotion. I think he absolutely has his fingers on the pulse of what is going on with this team. I agreed with all of the moves that were made in the offseason, but unfortunately, moves that are made don't work out with 100% success rate.

People can say he didn't react soon enough, but that makes it seem like acquiring a goalie sooner was a simple move when no goalies were moved all season long. He has never shown any hesitancy to try and bring a goalie in since he's had the job. The sellers have dictated the market all year long.

I like to hear about getting stronger on the wing, as well. Makes total sense. I appreciate that he believed in the team and that they could turn it around, but I think it speaks volumes about him calling out that they need to combat when teams play against their strengths and needing to play to a different identity. And it just didn't happen under Lindy. It goes back to the need of a B game. But it is also on the players to recognize that at the same time, and that's where the "immaturity" comments that have crept up in pressers lately comes from. You need to be able to push through, you can't just turn off of checks and make it an East-West game when the opponent has prepared for that quite easily.
 

Unknown Caller

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I’m warming to the idea of Allen and Kahkonen, especially if they’re both on deals that expire at the end of next. I wouldn’t give any term to him though. There is decent organizational depth behind them with Daws and Schmid that have both shown some NHL potential at times.

There is certainly risk to a Marstrom deal. We’d likely give up our 1st, a young player, plus have to pay him more than an Allen-Kahkonen duo combined. Those are assets and cap space we can’t use to upgrade the rest of the roster. Saros, of course you go for that if you can.
Kahkonen is no different than Vanecek. It’s a non-starter to bring him back. We don’t have eternity to win with this core.
 

Better Call Sal

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For me, it's always going to be about the cost. If the cost to get Markstrom is exorbitant, are you still making that move? How much are you willing to part with for Saros, and then in turn how much are you willing pay to extend him?

If it's not one of these two goalies, who else do you consider? The options are limited, and there are many potential buyers. It's an unenviable situation to be in, and makes me understand why we tried as long as possible to work with what we had between Vitek, Schmid and Daws. And of course, the added footnote of Allen not waiving his NTC here sooner when we originally pursued him.

I don't think I'm completely against the idea of Kahkonen being here with Allen, but it'd have to be a low risk, short term deal and you'd have to still stay on top of the goalie market again. The other thing is that Schmid and Daws are very likely going to be done with waiver eligibility after next year. If you believe in one of them being a part of a future tandem, do you dangle the other in a possible move? There's quite a lot to consider.
 

SteveCangialosi123

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Kahkonen is no different than Vanecek. It’s a non-starter to bring him back. We don’t have eternity to win with this core.
Remember we did set the franchise record in points with Vitek. I think Kahkonen has far more athleticism than Vitek. There’s some potential there. It’s hard to judge anything with numbers on that horrific Sharks team.

I’m just imagining moving on from this guy and he’s good elsewhere while we bring in Markstrom and his body crumbles.
 

Zajacs Bowl Cut

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The main problem lies in the fact that Markstrom is older, but only signed for 2 more years and will cost less assets than Saros.

Saros is younger, will cost more assets, but also needs a new contract. And I am kind of against giving any goalie a huge/longterm contract.

So you kind of have to balance out the risk/reward (just speaking between these 2 guys). Then obviously you have someone like Ullmark who might fall somewhere between these 2 guys, but he is 30 and also would need a new contract.
 

Better Call Sal

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Remember we did set the franchise record in points with Vitek. I think Kahkonen has far more athleticism than Vitek. There’s some potential there. It’s hard to judge anything with numbers on that horrific Sharks team.

I’m just imagining moving on from this guy and he’s good elsewhere while we bring in Markstrom and his body crumbles.

It will come down to the final cost and how much stock management has in Daws/Schmid for the future. I think they will play a factor in bringing in Markstrom. Rolling with that veteran tandem of him and Allen until Daws and/or Schmid are ready to take the reins.

I see all of the logic in the world in Markstrom being the target. But my fears are the same as yours.
 

AfroThunder396

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That's good stuff from Fitz in that Athletic article.

Again, I think anyone who questions him as a GM is solely reacting on emotion. I think he absolutely has his fingers on the pulse of what is going on with this team. I agreed with all of the moves that were made in the offseason, but unfortunately, moves that are made don't work out with 100% success rate.

People can say he didn't react soon enough, but that makes it seem like acquiring a goalie sooner was a simple move when no goalies were moved all season long. He has never shown any hesitancy to try and bring a goalie in since he's had the job. The sellers have dictated the market all year long.
Exactly. He told the world last summer "I'm trying to get a veteran goalie to split with Vanecek so that Schmid can play a full season in Utica" and for some reason people just forget that happened. We know he almost acquired Markstrom but Calgary nixed the deal at the last second, we know he almost acquired Allen at the beginning of the season but Allen wouldn't waive his NTC. We know he's called Nashville about Saros.

The "Fitz is doing nothing" crowd needs a lobotomy. He certainly dragged his feet firing Lindy, IMO it should have been done after the back-to-back Tampa losses, but it's not unreasonable to cut the coach some slack because of the injury/rookie situation. The team got dealt a really shitty hand this season. Ultimately the coach is responsible for the team's performance and the GM is responsible for the coach's performance.

But blaming the goalie situation on him is totally unjustified IMO - literally what more do you want him to do? Allen was a C-tier level goalie option and he still cost a conditional 2nd. Notice how no other goalies moved at the deadline, despite half of the league being unhappy with their goalie situation? Fitz isn't wrong, the prices are extortion. The same people that criticize him for not getting a goalie are the same people that would call for his head if he traded Nemec/Mercer for one.
 
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Guadana

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Kahkonnen and Allen - thats the right decision. Only one with Daws would be the same we had this year before trades. With having both we can give them the rest to rebuild and use other one. Call up Daws if we need to.
Cost less in cap space, cost nothing in assets.
Paying prime assets for only one year of great goalie is bad decision. We can trade them in the trade deadline or sign on the market if one of Allen\KK isnt good. This team is showing now what they are actually need - depth. Only depth. After goalie trades we didnt have any game where the main reason was a goalie game, and we are talking about the same goalies. Who is playing well with the same team as VV.
Markstrom can turn into the pumpkin today, he played like a garbage goalie previous season. But his deal isnt the same as VV, we already had experience with Craw and Bernier.
Both Ullmark and Saros are good, but paying prime assets like Mercer or Casey or even our 1st this year is bad management by GM in panic. Its okay for a fan to be in panic - we already see a lot of fans who wanted to trade Bratt, sign Johnny Gaudreaunee etc. Both are 30-32 future UFA goalies who will eat a lot of assets and cap. This team need this cap for good goaltending and good depth. Not for great goaltending and bad depth. This team already fixed goaltending by trades this season but still losing games not because of goaltending.

Overall Fitz mostly act like a reasonable GM so I dont think he will make stupid panic move.
 

Aurinko

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Allen and Kähkönen have both looked great so far, very servicable for next season. One off night for both but great in the rest.

Gambling with them as the tandem for next season to me is more or less same as going with Vanecek and Schmid this season. Odds of them falling apart might even be higher. However considering how young our team is that probably would be the best move, but after the backlash Fitz got for this season I just can't see him going into next season without a proven elite starter.

So I think unfortunately one (or some of) 1OA, Holtz, Mercer, Casey is/are gone in the summer.
One veteran goalie and 2 younger ones would be my choice.
 

MartyOwns

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“Get harder on the wing,” Fitzgerald said. “We’ve got enough talent for offense, but the game is still physical. You got to take hits to make plays. I want a team that is committed to playing through guys, not just circling off guys.

based on that entire interview, it sounds like some major changes will happen this offseason. i trust fitzy
 

JrFischer54

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I’m warming to the idea of Allen and Kahkonen, especially if they’re both on deals that expire at the end of next. I wouldn’t give any term to him though. There is decent organizational depth behind them with Daws and Schmid that have both shown some NHL potential at times.

There is certainly risk to a Marstrom deal. We’d likely give up our 1st, a young player, plus have to pay him more than an Allen-Kahkonen duo combined. Those are assets and cap space we can’t use to upgrade the rest of the roster. Saros, of course you go for that if you can.

you can say that about any goalie thats been hot for a stretch of time doesnt mean anything. there is ZERO nhl level goalies in the organization past the two starters we have now. the team went from two scrubs akira/vitek to two nhl scrubs allen/kahkonen who are playing great but who knows if its a fluke? or just the change of scenery. team still needs a 1 you can't walk back into next year with two unknowns again granted they are nhl level unknowns lol. also this can't be a yearly type deal they need to come up with something long term.
 

Zippy316

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I think the Devils go for another run at Markstrom, test the waters on Saros/Ullmark, and Kahkonen will be the option if they strike out on trades.

Kahkonen is probably the best option in what is a few mediocre UFA goalie pool. If he finishes out the year strong, maybe it’s best just to keep him if you can’t get a legitimate starter.
 
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Jersey Fresh

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Fitz speaks...hopefully it's OK to post this article, given the amount of quotes directly from Fitzgerald that fans should be able to see and the fact that The Athletic rarely has Devils content...


MANALAPAN, Fla. — Tom Fitzgerald sat back in his chair and pondered the question, facial expressions preceding the words that came out.

Words about a New Jersey Devils season that began with such high expectations. And about a young team learning to deal with those expectations and adversity. And about why it’s sometimes difficult for teams to take that next step.

“It’s hard. It’s not a place where we thought we would be,” the Devils president of hockey operations and general manager said candidly as he began a chat with The Athletic last week at the GMs meetings. “We knew we would take a step back in certain areas, but with the belief that the lack of experience on the back end would pay forward with the experience these young kids are getting this year.

“We live with their mistakes. We think they’re going to be great young defensemen in this league sooner rather than later. But the reality is they’re young.”

The comment was about a young blue-line group, in general, but obviously, a pair of 20-year-old future stars are playing huge minutes for the Devils: Luke Hughes is leading the team with more than 21 minutes per night, and Simon Nemec is not that far behind at just over 20 minutes a game.

In no way does Fitzgerald see it as a bad thing. Both Hughes and Nemec will be better for it. But in the here and now, there are times when relying on two rookies — even uber-talented ones — hasn’t made for a smooth ride.

“We expected to take a step back, but with the anticipation that we would take two steps forward, and really taking this experience and paying it forward with more experience,” Fitzgerald said. “They’re going to get better. And the sky’s the limit with the two young defensemen in particular. We think the world of them.”

What’s interesting is that this is where the Devils GM took the conversation on his own after being asked generally about a tough season for his team. Most would have expected him to mention the team’s goaltending struggles first. But perhaps that’s a tired subject. Others might have also mentioned the team’s injuries, losing No. 1 blueliner Dougie Hamilton 20 games into the season was something the team never recovered from.

But Fitzgerald doesn’t want to use injuries as a key excuse, although obviously they played a role to some degree.

“It throws your rhythm off — continuity,” he said. “Last year, we didn’t have any (injuries), or hardly any. It’s real. Injuries are real. But it’s absolutely not the reason why we’re in this place scratching and clawing trying to get into the playoffs.

“I just think there’s a lot of areas we needed to be better.”

As the Devils GM noted, his team is still fighting and hasn’t given up on the playoff race. But as far as those areas where they needed to get better?

“Every team identifies those areas, whether it’s your play away from the puck, checking, defending, the front of the net, not giving up as many high-end, quality chances,” he said. “We’ll get our chances, but what are we giving up?

“I believe it’s only going to make us stronger with an understanding of, ‘Wow, this is what we need to do. This is how committed we need to be. We want to be those teams that we play that are extremely tough to play against.”’

Think about the metamorphosis that the Florida Panthers went through, going from a high-flying, offensive machine two years ago to a more balanced, playoff-style, responsible two-way team today. I think that’s what Fitzgerald hopes to see from his Devils team as they continue their evolution. They’ve got the talent. But can they learn how to win the proper way?

Getting more saves would help. And newly acquired Jake Allen got off to a good start on that front after coming over from Montreal on March 8.

It does make you wonder where New Jersey might be in the standings had a goalie upgrade arrived earlier, but it certainly wasn’t for a lack of trying. There’s a reason there are so few midseason goalie trades around the league.

“Well, we’ve been in the goalie market the majority of this year, for certain goalies that we felt were on the market,” said Fitzgerald, whose pursuit of Calgary No. 1 Jacob Markstrom was well-publicized. “You know, going into the season — and you look at what possibly was available last summer — teams weren’t trading me their goalies, either.”

The Devils and Jets did have a conversation or two over Connor Hellebuyck last summer, but obviously that never got to where it needed to go. The Jets ultimately wanted to keep him anyway if at all possible. And the other thing to remember about last summer is that Vitek Vanecek was coming off a season as the Devils’ No. 1 where his 33 wins were tied for seventh in the NHL with Juuse Saros — one win behind Andrei Vasilevskiy, one ahead of Ilya Sorokin.

No one’s confusing Vanecek with any of those guys, of course. He was a 1B having a decent year. But it’s just a reminder that the Devils didn’t feel nearly as desperate last summer as they would eventually get this season once Vanecek’s play deteriorated and eventually the goalie got hurt.

All of which put 23-year-old goalies Akira Schmid and Nico Daws in a tough spot, and neither was able to grab the job and run with it.

“We love what we saw in Schmid,” Fitzgerald said of the goalie who came in and had a .921 save percentage in nine playoff games last season for the Devils. “Maybe we got a little ahead of ourselves with a young goalie.”

The Devils had kept tabs with Montreal on Allen, while at the same time fishing for a bigger target in Markstrom and kicking the tires on Saros in Nashville among others.

Allen had to waive his modified no-trade to go to New Jersey, and part of making him feel comfortable doing that was Fitzgerald communicating that he envisions Allen being part of a veteran 1-2 punch next season if New Jersey can go out and get it done for a bigger name in goal.

Easier said than done, of course, going out this summer and finally getting Markstrom or Saros or someone of that top-10 stature.

“There’s zero guarantees, and it’s nice to have a plan and check a box, (but) goalies have to be available to actually have a market,” Fitzgerald said. “If they are, certain teams know that we will be in the market for those certain types of goalies. And Jake Allen understands what we are trying to do, although again there’s no guarantees.

“But yeah, that’s how we set things up.”

So can Flames GM Craig Conroy expect to hear again from Fitzgerald this offseason?

“Not just Craig,” Fitzgerald replied with a chuckle.

It was no laughing matter when Fitzgerald made a coaching change on March 4, firing veteran Lindy Ruff and replacing him on an interim basis with associate coach Travis Green, the former Canucks bench boss.

That was a tough, tough moment for Fitzgerald, given the work Ruff had done helping develop the team’s young core.

“I love Lindy Ruff,” Fitzgerald said. “I bought him in for a certain reason. He checked all those boxes. When this team does hit their mark, Lindy’s fingerprints will be all over it for how he handled these players when they were younger. And how he molded them and allowed them to become the offensive players that we drafted.”

But — and there’s obviously a but when someone ends up fired — the Devils have entered a different phase of their growth.

“As we grow, there are things that I want to see change,” Fitzgerald said. “This isn’t on Lindy. This is on me as a manager. I think great players take accountability, as well, and responsibility. I just felt — we want to be a team that can play off the rush like we were last year, but teams defended us differently this year. They didn’t want to get into a track meet with us.

“I wanted to see us become that type of team: be more mature with the puck, getting pucks in deep, clock management — just certain things. We kept shooting ourselves in the foot. I just wanted to see some habits that could change.”

The timing of the coaching change, so late in the regular season, is reflective of the fact that Fitzgerald still believed the season could be salvaged.

“Oh yeah. We did,” he said. “Travis is different than Lindy. There’s not one coach that’s the same. I’ve seen some things that I’ve liked.

“As many missing pieces as we may have out of the lineup, playing to a different identity is possible. And it’s a must, to be quite honest.”

Again, Fitzgerald hasn’t given up on this season, but regardless of how it finishes, he’s got an idea (outside of goaltending) where he’s going to look to tinker with his lineup.

“We’ve got a lot of skill,” he said. “We really do. I’d like to get a little harder.”

The team lost Miles Wood to free agency last summer and then lost Michael McLeod, who was charged with sexual assault in London, Ontario. Hockey-wise, the team hasn’t been able to replace what those guys brought on the ice.

So that will be an offseason focus.

“Get harder on the wing,” Fitzgerald said. “We’ve got enough talent for offense, but the game is still physical. You got to take hits to make plays. I want a team that is committed to playing through guys, not just circling off guys.

“And (players) who will allow our guys some time and space, because when guys in our league have time and space, they can make great plays. … Those are characteristics in certain players that I will be looking for.”

So an important offseason is coming again for a team that still has a bright future. But also a team that needs to pick itself off the mat if this season does likely end up with it out of the playoff mix.

It hasn’t been easy for Fitzgerald to digest, but he’s trying to keep it in perspective.

“I’m a passionate person,” said Fitzgerald, who signed a multiyear contract extension in January and got promoted to president of hockey operations with it. “I’ve got my convictions, and I’m as highly a competitor as the next guy. It’s not easy. It’s not easy. It’s my job to build this team around the pillars that we have. … And help them not piss away good years of their career by not being a playoff team. That’s my job.

“But the reality is — and I say this all the time — there are times where work is a little rough. Life is great. My life is great. Sometimes work is a little rough. But you manage that. I’ve got great support in my family, great support from ownership and our CEO Tad Brown.

“But at the end of the day, it’s my job to put the best team on the ice with an identity that I want our team and our fans to be proud of.”
Fitzgerald acknowledges this team is sawft. I agree with him, we have the skill. It’s okay to get guys for defined roles other than scoring or skating fast. We can do both.

He needs to find guys that can complement the skill, but have the mentality of going through, not around.
 
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ninetyeight

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Just putting it out there that Kaapo Kahkonen saved 24.6 goals below expected last year, 13.1 goals below expected with Minnesota in 2020-21, and 2.6 goals below expected with Minnesota in 2019-20.

He's had a .934 sv% to date with the Devils which is astromically higher than anything he's done in his career. It's going to come down.

What he's doing is nice, but you cannot rely on him after this season.

In all fairness to Kähkönen, he was 23-25 years old when he was with Minnesota and still was over .900% every season. It wasn't until SJ that his numbers dipped below 900. I think most goalies hit their prime in their late 20s, we have to remember that he is still just 27yo.
 
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Saugus

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I think Kahkonen has been overperforming with the change of scenery, and he is not the answer long term, or even next season.

My ideal scenario is that Fitz finds a trade for a solid starting goalie. I'd prefer Ullmark or Saros, but depending on the price, Markstrom might be acceptable.

We go into the season with the new goalie as the starter, Allen there as a capable backup, and Daws/Schmid in the AHL to be called up only in case of injury/one of the tandem turning into a pumpkin.
 

Goptor

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The more I think about it - the more it feels Markstrom stays in Calgary.

I don't see a market for a 35yo goalie with a NTC. Its rumored he won't waive for LA. Will he waive to join the circus in Toronto? Carolina is possible, but only if Andersen retires.
Rebuilding teams won't bother wasting assets to bring him in. They'll sign someone like Kahkonen and not worry about losing games.

Who else other than the Devils are a legitimate trading partner? 2024 1st isn't going there. 2025 1st probably wont. I think Calgary just reads the market wrong again like they did at the trade deadline, when the Devils were the only team serious about trading for a goaltender.
 
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JimEIV

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Fitz already said he'd continue hunting in the goalie market in the offseason at his post-trade deadline presser. I don't see him deviating from that based on Kahkonen's play.

I don't think he stands pat whatsoever after what has happened this season. He knows he needs to bring in as close to a proven commodity as possible. The problem with that is that goaltending is so wacky these days that even a proven commodity can come in and lay an egg one season after putting together a strong campaign the prior year.
It looked like the writer wanted to talk about goaltending and Fitz wanted to tell us about the shitty defense and soft play....
 

ZYXWVUT

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call me crazy, but i am not convinced that nashville doesn't have a change of plans & is willing to move askarov this summer to extend saros. or trotz sets a price on the latter so high that nobody will meet it & he just keeps both, kicking that can down the road til next summer. i just think the team surpassing expectations could lead to him rethinking things.
 
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