Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[JimEIV]

Dealing Bratt now after he’s already become a key player is not at all comparable to Rolston and Guerin who were younger forwards that hadn’t made a mark yet (dealing Mercer would be a bit closer to that) And Sykora wasn’t dealt to ‘get the Devils over the top’, since they already won with him in 2000

First this is not my argument... I took exception with the invented stuff comment...


Second all of those players were in NJ as long Bratt has been

Guerin 7 years
Rolston 6 years
Sykora 7 years

This is Bratt's 7th year.

Historically we've moved talented forwards for a whole host of reasons....from Muller and Verbeek to Arnott and Sykora.

 

[glenwo2]

spot on thinking. historically Bratt's the type of player that gets dealt for pieces to get to the next level.

I'm sorry...can you provide the HISTORICAL Evidence that supports this absurd take, sir?

 

[Guadana]

What trade would make this possible?

Our this year first, Mercer, Daws + and ultimatum from BT that he wouldnt play for sens anymore.

First this is not my argument... I took exception with the invented stuff comment...


Second all of those players were in NJ as long Bratt has been

Guerin 7 years
Rolston 6 years
Sykora 7 years

This is Bratt's 7th year.

Historically we've moved talented forwards for a whole host of reasons....from Muller and Verbeek to Arnott and Sykora.

Muller, Verbeek, Sykora and Arnott are from absolutely different hockey era. With cap space, online video and advanced scouting this is not working the same way anymore.

 

[JimEIV]

I'm sorry...can you provide the HISTORICAL Evidence that supports this absurd take, sir?

Verbeek for Turgeon for Claude 1995 cup

Muller for Richer 1995 Cup

Zelepukin and Guerin for Arnott 2000 cup

Rolston for Claude Lemieux 2000 Cup

Sykora for Jeff Freisen 2003 Cup

Arnott and McKay for Langenbrunner and Niewendyk 2003 Cup

That's just from memory and only forwards...no Semak for Chambers defense moves just forwards

Or Sean Burke and Eric Weinrich for Holik... I didn't count those type of moves

 

[glenwo2]

So you don't agree with the opinion.... don't tell the guy he "invented stuff" like he was making shit up when there clearly has been a history of it....he even used the word "historically"

Yeah...he used the word "historically" without providing said evidence supporting that.

You brought up some points but I'm with Triumph here.

That was a totally different era and these days you just don't trade a player the caliber of Bratt for another player the caliber of BT.

Why?

Because all you're doing is replacing one talent for another, and the team is neither better nor worse afterward.

I'd rather we ADD to what we currently have than basically re-arrange chairs on a cruise ship.

 

[JimEIV]

Yeah...he used the word "historically" without providing said evidence supporting that.

I'm sure he assumed long time Devil fans would just know what he was talking about.

 

[glenwo2]

The only way I see the reason and reality of trade Bratt for BT is situation where Bratt is still very good and BT has only one year on his deal - Devils trade Bratt for Brady and sign him right after that.

And Bratt ends up kicking our ass for years to come after that trade.

Lovely.


Anyway, this argument has been around since Bratt first hit 73 points in a season.

Wish it would stop already.

 

[Triumph]

Verbeek for Turgeon for Claude 1995 cup

Muller for Richer 1995 Cup

Zelepukin and Guerin for Arnott 2000 cup

Rolston for Claude Lemieux 2000 Cup

Sykora for Jeff Freisen 2003 Cup

Arnott and McKay for Langenbrunner and Niewendyk 2003 Cup

That's just from memory and only forwards...no Semak for Chambers defense moves just forwards

Or Sean Burke and Eric Weinrich for Holik... I didn't count those type of moves

This is all ancient history and doesn't apply at all to the current moment - you do realize that Lou Lamoriello has been a general manager for 20 years after the Sykora trade, and that that is the last player-for-player trade of significance he has made? Every trade since then has either had a pick as a primary component on either side or has been a rental? Part of it is Lou but most of it is the league; it's just really hard to make moves like that where teams can exchange good players for one another.

There have been 4 franchises who have won multiple Stanley Cups in the post-salary cap era - the Penguins, the Blackhawks, the Kings, and the Lightning. Please inform me of all the times those teams traded top forwards off their team for help elsewhere on the roster.

 

[JimEIV]

This is all ancient history

Or you might say historically?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

spot on thinking. historically Bratt's the type of player that gets dealt for pieces to get to the next level.

can you give specific examples of this please? And lets limit it to the last 5 years.

Thanks!

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

How about instead of trading Bratt, maybe you find a complimentary winger to him and Jack? They've been on lines where they only had one other competent player most of their times in NJ. I have to look at UFA but I'm sure there's someone who can fit the Zach Hyman role (NOT PRODUCTION BEFORE I GET SWARMED)

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

The only way I see the reason and reality of trade Bratt for BT is situation where Bratt is still very good and BT has only one year on his deal - Devils trade Bratt for Brady and sign him right after that.

There's more links to NJ with Brady than we all got hyped for a Matt trade in 2022 but I can't see Ottawa moving on from him. He's basically their Hischier.

 

[Bad Goalie]

It's been glitchy for me for a couple of days. Last night during the game was bad.

Thanks.
Just like to know it's not ME!.

 

[glenwo2]

can you give specific examples of this please? And lets limit it to the last 5 years.

Thanks!

Welp that torpedoes all those trades you listed @JimEIV .

 

[Triumph]

Or you might say historically?

Thanks for boiling this post down to shitty semantics and ignoring the rest of the words, which put yours and your perception of his point into the dustbin of history where it belongs. Teams seldom trade top forwards anymore. They usually do so when forced to by contracts or trade demands. Bratt has to my knowledge not demanded a trade, and his contract is excellent. Something like the Matthew Tkachuk for Huberdeau Weegar deal came about because of contracts and trade demands. These things DO happen. They are just far rarer now than they were between 1980 and 2004.

Also, your point is more inane than his is, his might be driven by some weird belief in Cup champion molting, yours is just stuck in the past forever.

 

[HughesCorporation]

And Bratt ends up kicking our ass for years to come after that trade.

Lovely.

yeah, but now we all know his one shoot out move!!!

There's more links to NJ with Brady than we all got hyped for a Matt trade in 2022 but I can't see Ottawa moving on from him. He's basically their Hischier.

yeah, but like G said, it will be up to him if he wants out of ottawa

 

[JimEIV]

Teams seldom trade top forwards anymore.

Like Timo Meier?

 

[glenwo2]

Like Timo Meier?

What does the term "seldom" mean, Jim?

 

[JimEIV]

What does the term "seldom" mean, Jim?

Alex Debrincat? I got a few more I just like the one name answers to egg you along...

But this is funny as hell....we went from "inventing stuff " to "ancient history" to "rare and seldom"

And none of this is my argument

But we're slowly and surely making progress!

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Like Timo Meier?

Team is in no position for siphoning off their top 6 talent, the solution is to find Jack/Bratt a winger and then fill your bottom 6 with guys who can skate with size. It's a shame that the Carolina series absolutely poisoned this management's thinking.

 

[Guadana]

And Bratt ends up kicking our ass for years to come after that trade.

Lovely.


Anyway, this argument has been around since Bratt first hit 73 points in a season.

Wish it would stop already.

Im not advocating for a trade. Im against it. I told the circumstances of how it can potentially happened.

There's more links to NJ with Brady than we all got hyped for a Matt trade in 2022 but I can't see Ottawa moving on from him. He's basically their Hischier.

I think the same way. I specifically told how and why it can happened in case of potential Bratt Tkachuk trade.
I dont think we want trade Bratt. Its not smart, we have 70-80 points play driver for less than 8 mil in his prime years. I dont think Ottawa will trade Brady because he is under control and quite cheap for what he is doing.

 

[Guttersniped]

Devils also play much better with this roster when they counter and attack. They havent had the luxury of doing that this season with a defensive group that struggled and conceding first so often. Then teams just shut down our rush game and the Devils are forced to press and it leads to issues.

You saw that in Games 1 and 2 of the playoffs against the Rangers. Rangers countered us rather than play their game and the Devils tried to do too much. Once they relaxed and let the game come to them, they countered the Rangers and the Rangers couldn’t handle the Devils speed.

The way they’re currently playing, they can handle the slower Pens and the passive Jets, but they’re a mess if an opposing team aggressively pressures them with speed.

Part of that is the messed-up defensive pairs, part of that is the lack of centers and part of that is a coaching failure.

It’s all “simplifying our game” and “north and south” because we don’t have a functional system at this point.

 

[forceten]

Let’s try not to be the snake that eats its tail here people please. We are all on the same side.

 

[glenwo2]

Let’s try not to be the snake that eats its tail here people please. We are all on the same side.

Hiss.

 

[Richer's Ghost]