Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[Homedresser]

Yeah. I think he has everything we need. It's no disrespect to Bratt...I think Bratt is phenomenal.

it's just I think we get enough of what Bratt brings from Jack....and we need a little more dump truck in our top 6 than Ferrari.

I'd like them both in the lineup but if I had to trade Bratt for Brady I would in a second.

spot on thinking. historically Bratt's the type of player that gets dealt for pieces to get to the next level.

 

[Devilsfan992]

Devils also play much better with this roster when they counter and attack. They havent had the luxury of doing that this season with a defensive group that struggled and conceding first so often. Then teams just shut down our rush game and the Devils are forced to press and it leads to issues.

You saw that in Games 1 and 2 of the playoffs against the Rangers. Rangers countered us rather than play their game and the Devils tried to do too much. Once they relaxed and let the game come to them, they countered the Rangers and the Rangers couldn’t handle the Devils speed.

Great post. 100% agree.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

spot on thinking. historically Bratt's the type of player that gets dealt for pieces to get to the next level.

I’d say that’s the opposite of the truth in the salary cap era. He’s signed for his whole prime at a number that will get better every year.

 

[Triumph]

spot on thinking. historically Bratt's the type of player that gets dealt for pieces to get to the next level.

Absolutely no way that that is true, but hey, it's nice to invent stuff. Can't have a 6th round pick be a core member of the team.

 

[indfin]

People act like these 'coach in waiting' arrangements happen SO often (and yet I never hear one cited), especially when the guy who's in charge isn't exactly going to agree to be a lame duck and move upstairs after a predetermined amount of time. Or that you could just prevent a guy from getting a promotion interview the way Bill Parcells used to with his assistants in the NFL.

I've said it before, the only time to replace Lindy with Brunette was in that second offseason when you hired Brunette in the first place, coming off two poor years.

Ask Mike Hopkins about waiting around to succeed Boeheim

 

[Billdo]

I've said it before, the only time to replace Lindy with Brunette was in that second offseason when you hired Brunette in the first place, coming off two poor years.

This is spot on.

 

[JimEIV]

I’d say that’s the opposite of the truth in the salary cap era. He’s signed for his whole prime at a number that will get better every year.

Tkachuk and Bratt have very similar contracts... Tkachuk just got his sooner than Bratt did.

Tkachuk 7 years/57 million through 2028. 8.2 cap hit

Bratt 8 years/63 million through 2031 7.8 cap hit

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Tkachuk and Bratt have very similar contracts... Tkachuk just got his sooner than Bratt did.

Tkachuk 7 years/57 million through 2028. 8.2 cap hit

Bratt 8 years/63 million through 2031 7.8 cap hit

Brady is on a good contract too and that’s why there’s little chance he’s going anywhere.

 

[HughesCorporation]

bratt is not going anywhere the kid is an elite skater and a possession monster in the OZ we have plenty of space in the bottom 6 to add toughness

the only good thing about this end of season is hat green should be selling his condo soon

 

[JimEIV]

we have plenty of space in the bottom 6 to add toughness

I have literally read this on this forum for like 4 of the last 5 years...no exaggeration.

"We just need a couple bottom 6 players that play a heavy game "

Like clock work. Every year. If your core is marshmallow soft it's always going to be that way.

Look I'm not advocating trading Bratt but I am advocating getting some snarl in the top 6 and not just some random plug to fill a requirement.

 

[Call Me Al]

it would have been nice if they traded holtz for a goalie last summer, because i am officially down on this kid being any kind of impact player. it blows my mind that he’s 6’/195 because im not sure i’ve seen an anyone as easy to take the puck away from as him. he can’t win a 50/50 battle and if he has the puck he’s basically the skinny guy in nintendo ice hockey vs. a fat every time, minus the speed.

i was clamoring for him to get a chance to play with our high end guys and i have to apologize to lindy because he does not have it

 

[HughesCorporation]

I have literally read this on this forum for like 4 of the last 5 years...no exaggeration.

"We just need a couple bottom 6 players that play a heavy game "

Like clock work. Every year. If your core is marshmallow soft it's always going to be that way.

Look I'm not advocating trading Bratt but I am advocating getting some snarl in the top 6 and not just some random plug to fill a requirement.

and what bottom 6 players did we add toughness to_ holtz haula lazarnosek zzzzzzzz
our top line is carry in and possess we have no forechecking lines and we need some big dmen to take punishment and dish it out

haula palat holtz mercer can all be upgraded with toughness

 

[Triumph]

it would have been nice if they traded holtz for a goalie last summer, because i am officially down on this kid being any kind of impact player. it blows my mind that he’s 6’/195 because im not sure i’ve seen an anyone as easy to take the puck away from as him. he can’t win a 50/50 battle and if he has the puck he’s basically the skinny guy in nintendo ice hockey vs. a fat every time, minus the speed.

i was clamoring for him to get a chance to play with our high end guys and i have to apologize to lindy because he does not have it

Holtz had less value last offseason when he was coming off being a total non-factor in the NHL. I don't think he has a lot of value now, either, but he at least has more juice coming off a 15 goal season where he got no ice time. I do not think he will be an impact player and I also doubt he will be here next season.

 

[Bleedred]

People act like these 'coach in waiting' arrangements happen SO often (and yet I never hear one cited), especially when the guy who's in charge isn't exactly going to agree to be a lame duck and move upstairs after a predetermined amount of time. Or that you could just prevent a guy from getting a promotion interview the way Bill Parcells used to with his assistants in the NFL.

I've said it before, the only time to replace Lindy with Brunette was in that second offseason when you hired Brunette in the first place, coming off two poor years.

The Blues announced before 16-17 that it would be Hitchcock’s final year. They poured Mike Yeo that offseason to be assistant and announced he would take over after that year ended. They publicly announced it.

And Hitchcock didn’t even make it out of that season before they fired him and promoted Yeo.

Fitz had already publicly committed to Ruff returning whenever he fired Recchi and Nas. That was the first week of May. Brunette was eliminated in like the third week of May, but wasn’t let go by the Panthers until a month later. I think we hired him in the second or third week of July.

I actually remember the conversations at the time where people had suggested just being done with Ruff now that we had Brunette, but it was argued that it wouldn’t be right by Ruff to publicly say after the season that he was coming back, only to fire him 2 months later before any games were even played. And that it wouldn’t sit right with the coaching alliance to fire a long time veteran and well respected coach like. That was already after the Boughner firing by the Sharks pissed off the coaching alliance and everyone in the media blasted them for it because they did it on July 1st and not two months earlier when their season ended. Also costing Boughner potential jobs in the process that had been available earlier in the offseason, but were no longer there by the time he was fired.

 

[Call Me Al]

Holtz had less value last offseason when he was coming off being a total non-factor in the NHL. I don't think he has a lot of value now, either, but he at least has more juice coming off a 15 goal season where he got no ice time. I do not think he will be an impact player and I also doubt he will be here next season.

i think he had more value last year as a project thinking “maybe he just couldnt crack their well balanced and successful lineup, but the skills are there and he has potential” as compared to this year revealing that maybe that potential isn’t all there.

 

[Guadana]

The only way I see the reason and reality of trade Bratt for BT is situation where Bratt is still very good and BT has only one year on his deal - Devils trade Bratt for Brady and sign him right after that.

 

[JimEIV]

Absolutely no way that that is true, but hey, it's nice to invent stuff. Can't have a 6th round pick be a core member of the team.

I assumed that he was drawing analogies to how guys like Rolston, Sykora and Guerin were moved to address immediate needs for serious Cup runs?

I don't think that point of view is inventing stuff?

 

[Devils731]

i think he had more value last year as a project thinking “maybe he just couldnt crack their well balanced and successful lineup, but the skills are there and he has potential” as compared to this year revealing that maybe that potential isn’t all there.

Holtz proved he can score at a good rate in limited minutes. The question is can that scale up to additional minutes. Last year he hadn’t shown he could score at the NHL level so I think there was significantly more questions.

We are probably looking at something similar to when the Ducks moved on from Kyle Palmieri even though he was scoring at a good rate in limited minutes.

 

[Triumph]

i think he had more value last year as a project thinking “maybe he just couldnt crack their well balanced and successful lineup, but the skills are there and he has potential” as compared to this year revealing that maybe that potential isn’t all there.

He didn't tear up the minors last season, either, so it makes that argument a bit more difficult to make. I also don't think that this year reveals that the potential isn't all there - he scored 15 goals in limited ice time. He's still probably the best per-minute scorer on the roster. I just think it's definitely not happening here, and that Holtz will embark on a career where teams are excited to have him but also immediately looking to upgrade on him.

I assumed that he was drawing analogies to how guys like Rolston, Sykora and Guerin were moved to address immediate needs for serious Cup runs?

I don't think that point of view is inventing stuff?

That was two decades ago and all of those players were extremely different and also all of them won Stanley Cups here regardless. It's a wildly different universe now. The idea of moving Bratt 'for pieces to help the Devils win' - it's just near-impossible to upgrade on what Bratt is. Bratt works well with Hischier and Hughes. It would be colossally stupid to move him for whatever people are picturing - especially because Bratt is a former 6th round pick who was born in Europe and doesn't play a 'heavy' game. Nobody in the NHL is seeking players with that profile.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

10-2 and need some help

uh, yea prob not happening then

 

[Devs3cups]

The vibes are so f***ing off.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Brady is more of a pest and instigator than Timo, thats the only difference

Both good players and would really cement our top 6 if we got him.

Tkachuk Hughes Bratt
Palat Hischier Meier

What trade would make this possible?

 

[JimEIV]

He didn't tear up the minors last season, either, so it makes that argument a bit more difficult to make. I also don't think that this year reveals that the potential isn't all there - he scored 15 goals in limited ice time. He's still probably the best per-minute scorer on the roster. I just think it's definitely not happening here, and that Holtz will embark on a career where teams are excited to have him but also immediately looking to upgrade on him.



That was two decades ago and all of those players were extremely different and also all of them won Stanley Cups here regardless. It's a wildly different universe now. The idea of moving Bratt 'for pieces to help the Devils win' - it's just near-impossible to upgrade on what Bratt is. Bratt works well with Hischier and Hughes. It would be colossally stupid to move him for whatever people are picturing - especially because Bratt is a former 6th round pick who was born in Europe and doesn't play a 'heavy' game. Nobody in the NHL is seeking players with that profile.

So you don't agree with the opinion.... don't tell the guy he "invented stuff" like he was making shit up when there clearly has been a history of it....he even used the word "historically"

 

[NJDevs26]

I assumed that he was drawing analogies to how guys like Rolston, Sykora and Guerin were moved to address immediate needs for serious Cup runs?

I don't think that point of view is inventing stuff?

Dealing Bratt now after he’s already become a key player is not at all comparable to Rolston and Guerin who were younger forwards that hadn’t made a mark yet (dealing Mercer would be a bit closer to that) And Sykora wasn’t dealt to ‘get the Devils over the top’, since they already won with him in 2000

 

[Triumph]

So you don't agree with the opinion.... don't tell the guy he "invented stuff" like he was making shit up when there clearly has been a history of it....he even used the word "historically"

He was inventing stuff. Teams going for Stanley Cups don't often trade the player who was 1st, 4th, and 2nd in team scoring the previous 3 seasons. The Devils did it with Sykora in a completely different world.