Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[Emperoreddy]

I think if you have a negative outlook overall, you won't view what Fitz is discussing here through an optimistic lens.

When he's talking about taking a step back in certain areas, I'm quite sure he means from letting both Severson and Graves go in favor of giving Bahl a bigger role and Luke (with eventually Nemec) getting their chances with the big club. It doesn't matter how it happened ultimately, but Nemec has been given a hefty share of minutes. While they have largely performed well, all of that has undoubtedly had a ripple effect on the defense and team as a whole. And that can lead to struggles. Luke has also unsurprisingly hit a rookie wall. He's not blaming them at all. He's saying they chose to live with the hiccups of giving those responsibilities to younger, less experienced defenders and that it will only help them going forward.

Identifying where the team's weaknesses are is absolutely necessary for him to make the right moves this offseason. And this interview seems to show he has that awareness. I also think the below shows he's not talking about just getting guys like you described in Smith and MacDermid but guys who will help our skilled players succeed:

But that's not really why we stepped back.

We stepped back because Siegs and Marino regressed big time and Dougie got hurt.

Honestly Bahl has not been as much of a problem this year when he isn't asked too do too much, and Luke was a positive player for at least half the season even with hiccups.

It's a misidentification of what went wrong here which could lead to issues with how he chooses to fix things.

It goes along with I don't think coaching or management has any issues with Brandon Smith and what he has brought this team when they really should when identifying what has and hasn't worked.

The issue about calling the team soft is simply a player availability issue. The players that can solve that issue without trading a major NHL piece away or arent a net negative on the ice aren't available.

The tough guys that are regularly available are usually those locker room types that can't play hockey that GMs love for some reason.

 

[Emperoreddy]

 

[Emperoreddy]

 

[Better Call Sal]

But that's not really why we stepped back.

We stepped back because Siegs and Marino regressed big time and Dougie got hurt.

Honestly Bahl has not been as much of a problem this year when he isn't asked too do too much, and Luke was a positive player for at least half the season even with hiccups.

It's a misidentification of what went wrong here which could lead to issues with how he chooses to fix things.

It goes along with I don't think coaching or management has any issues with Brandon Smith and what he has brought this team when they really should when identifying what has and hasn't worked.

The issue about calling the team soft is simply a player availability issue. The players that can solve that issue without trading a major NHL piece away or arent a net negative on the ice aren't available.

The tough guys that are regularly available are usually those locker room types that can't play hockey that GMs love for some reason.

But again, it is that large shift in the defensive unit as a whole that can create a ripple effect. It's a team game. It is a lot of overhaul for one unit who plays a complicated structure in their own zone, as many of our former players have mentioned this year. And if you have players struggling to read and react off of each other as a result, it can lead to those struggles from any defender. Of course, injuries don't help, but I understand why Fitz is trying not to just pin it on that.

I don't see anything being misidentified. I think it is a part of why we've had inconsistency all year. But it is just a part. I think the fact that Luke and Nemec have continued to play as many minutes as they have makes it clear as day they're not being blamed.

Fitz has not shown to me once that he misunderstands his job. So I have no fear in guys being brought in that don't fit the mold of what he wants. It's a matter of who's available, what the cost is, and whether or not it works. People will claim we lost the trade with hindsight, but the Toffoli move was one that I would make again. He did exactly what he was brought in to do, but the end result for the team did not work out.

I don't have the answers for who can be brought in to create that time and space for our skilled players. But if you can find another one, I think it can help our team immensely. I don't see how what he said is wrong at all. We do have a lot of skill, and many of our guys try to circle off rather than taking a hit to make a play. And it's why I think the coaching hire will make all the difference in the world. I hope we nail that, but we don't know who will be available yet.

 

[Brooklyndevil]

Realistic Target - Lawson Crouse
Bat Shit Insane Wont Ever Happen - Brady Tkachuk

Crouse sounds good. And I’m delighted to finally hear our GM say we’re soft, one of the softest teams to play against. I feel for Nico. I’ve never seen a player get abused like he does. And I’ll never forget that Florida game where the whole Panther team chased Nico around the ice and his teammates sat back and just watched. Sickening.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

call me crazy, but i am not convinced that nashville doesn't have a change of plans & is willing to move askarov this summer to extend saros. or trotz sets a price on the latter so high that nobody will meet it & he just keeps both, kicking that can down the road til next summer. i just think the team surpassing expectations could lead to him rethinking things.

You Crazy

 

[theoptimist]

Core player

 

[MartyOwns]

Again, I'm not saying the goaltending is not a problem. I'm saying that I'm not sure how much they can really address it, outside of somehow acquiring an elite goaltender. Goalies are voodoo. And this season even guys like Sorokin, Shesterkin, Oettinger, and Vasi have largely been below-par to outright bad.

Of the "solutions" people have been proposing, the only one I'm remotely interested in is Saros, and he would need a big extension. Markstrom is old, breaks down late in every season, and alternates between good and bad seasons. Ullmark is a Bruins' system goalie. I'm not interested in those guys.

I'd rather focus on upgrading the blueline with a legitimate defensive presence (my preference is Marcus Pettersson as a trade candidate), and adding forechecking two-way forwards in free agency (guys like Debrusk, Foegele, and Trenin).

well, i believe you said you wouldn’t prioritize fixing our goaltending because it’s the most difficult thing to fix (unless i misunderstood your point). i think that would be true if we were going for an elite goalie, but i was saying we don’t really need to do that. we need an average (at worst) goalie, a systems heavy coach who can put said goalie in a position to succeed, and a few complimentary type players.

brossoit and stolarz are having terrific years, and are stuck playing second fiddle for the foreseeable future. i’d be very interested in skjei, tanev or zadorov on d and any of the forwards you mentioned.

 

[JimEIV]

That's the other thing, the plan also wasn't to play two rookies like they have (I assume Bahl is being considered a pure rookie). Nemec was supposed to spend the year in Utica and maybe push Miller out.

Dougie going down forced Nemec in, but again the actual issues on D came from Siegs, Marino and of course Smith.

Bahl was coming into this season with 66 games of NHL experience. Luke with 2. Bahl was penciled in to be a top 4 Dman...Fitz said repeatedly that Bahl would be taking Graves defensive minutes....that always meant he was going to have to be a key PKer and play top 4 5v5 minutes.

We were always going to have to play 2 rookies on defense this season . Making believe Bahl wasn't a rookie is just silly.

And Nemec was never going to play this season if Dougie stayed 100% healthy?

That's nonsense. Nemec was always going to get a real good look this season no matter what anyone says now... Fitz included. They just weren't going to burry him in the AHL all season.

I'm not sure why everyone is trying to create alternative narratives lately?

 

[My3Sons]

Crouse sounds good. And I’m delighted to finally hear our GM say we’re soft, one of the softest teams to play against. I feel for Nico. I’ve never seen a player get abused like he does. And I’ll never forget that Florida game where the whole Panther team chased Nico around the ice and his teammates sat back and just watched. Sickening.

You aren't wrong, but it's hard to find a player that can fill that role and play well. I guess you could put MacDermid on Nico's wing for a game and you know Tkachuk would turtle but that obviously hamstrings Hischier and your overall team defense. That game was also an outlier. The bigger problem are the players that have cheapshotted guys on NJ this year and I'm skeptical any of that changes based on having a tough guy in the lineup. Time and space and physical play are not necessarily overlapping with cheap shotting the other team in retaliation or fighting them. I'd be all for adding a few sociopaths that would destroy the best players on the other team in retaliation and specifically tell the jack ass who started it their best player is in concussion protocol because of him but for some reason NHL teams are afraid to do that.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Bahl was coming into this season with 66 games of NHL experience. Luke with 2. Bahl was penciled in to be a top 4 Dman...Fitz said repeatedly that Bahl would be taking Graves defensive minutes....that always meant he was going to have to be a key PKer and play top 4 5v5 minutes.

We were always going to have to play 2 rookies on defense this season . Making believe Bahl wasn't a rookie is just silly.

And Nemec was never going to play this season if Dougie stayed 100% healthy?

That's nonsense. Nemec was always going to get a real good look this season no matter what anyone says now... Fitz included. They just weren't going to burry him in the AHL all season.

I'm not sure why everyone is trying to create alternative narratives lately?

Bahl was not a rookie and Nemec would’ve likely had a minimal role if fully healthy, yes. We brought in Miller to play. The staff also has a love affair with Smith.

Regardless, Nemec ended up being 100% ready anyway and would be good enough to play on just about any team in the NHL.

 

[bossram]

well, i believe you said you wouldn’t prioritize fixing our goaltending because it’s the most difficult thing to fix (unless i misunderstood your point). i think that would be true if we were going for an elite goalie, but i was saying we don’t really need to do that. we need an average (at worst) goalie, a systems heavy coach who can put said goalie in a position to succeed, and a few complimentary type players.

brossoit and stolarz are having terrific years, and are stuck playing second fiddle for the foreseeable future. i’d be very interested in skjei, tanev or zadorov on d and any of the forwards you mentioned.

If you acquire an "average goalie", there is no guarantee (I'd argue it is quite unlikely) that you'll get "average" goaltending. Goaltending is so volatile, it's nearly impossible to predict how a given goaltender will perform year-to-year. Following from this premise, I would not invest significant assets into "fixing" the goaltending. I would prioritize allocating the assets (trade pieces and cap space) into other areas of need.

The approach you're suggesting is actually something I've been a large advocate for: To "solve" the goaltending, make multiple cheap dart throws and see what sticks. If that's Allen and Kahkonen, I could get behind that. If it's Brossoit and Stolarz, I could get behind that too. If it means signing Driedger as the 3rd string option who might still have some NHL calibre play, I'd do that too.

I'd far prefer that route than investing major assets and cap space into acquiring Markstrom, when I am doubtful a guy like Markstrom would even "solve" the goaltending.

 

[tailfins]

While I don't think you're completely off base here, keep in mind that a recurring theme of Fitz's when he's been available to the media has been that he's been in the market for a goalie for close to a year now. So I feel like he doesn't need to emphasize that any further than he already has several times, especially since the trade deadline.

This is a small sample size to analyze how the team is performing with new goaltenders in the mix. At its core, this is still the same coaching staff attempting to make whatever adjustments they can from what the team has done all season. So, of course, many of the same bad habits and inconsistencies that we've seen all season long are probably going to bubble up to the surface in this final stretch.

The next coaching hire will determine quite a bit with where we go from here. But I appreciate Fitz's honesty about what he needs to do for the roster. I'm glad he's identified his wants, now hopefully there are players that fit that bill available.

I think Green stays. Who else is there?

Unless Sullivan leaves Pitt. But, Sullivan's extension kicks in next year, so either he or the Pens have to walk away from a lot of money.

(I actually would support Julien here, but I can't see how that happens.)

 

[MartyOwns]

If you acquire an "average goalie", there is no guarantee (I'd argue it is quite unlikely) that you'll get "average" goaltending. Goaltending is so volatile, it's nearly impossible to predict how a given goaltender will perform year-to-year. Following from this premise, I would not invest significant assets into "fixing" the goaltending. I would prioritize allocating the assets (trade pieces and cap space) into other areas of need.

The approach you're suggesting is actually something I've been a large advocate for: To "solve" the goaltending, make multiple cheap dart throws and see what sticks. If that's Allen and Kahkonen, I could get behind that. If it's Brossoit and Stolarz, I could get behind that too. If it means signing Driedger as the 3rd string option who might still have some NHL calibre play, I'd do that too.

I'd far prefer that route than investing major assets and cap space into acquiring Markstrom, when I am doubtful a guy like Markstrom would even "solve" the goaltending.

you're preaching to the choir, man. getting markstrom would be a massive boner on fitz's part.

 

[Billdo]

you're preaching to the choir, man. getting markstrom would be a massive boner on fitz's part.

I just don't really get the Markstrom hype.

 

[AfroThunder396]

The thing with Smith is weird, he was a healthy scratch down the stretch last year yet somehow can't come out of the lineup this year despite his really poor play.

 

[Better Call Sal]

I think Green stays. Who else is there?

Unless Sullivan leaves Pitt. But, Sullivan's extension kicks in next year, so either he or the Pens have to walk away from a lot of money.

(I actually would support Julien here, but I can't see how that happens.)

It's tough to say. But I'm sure Fitz will do his due diligence.

I think if we end up sticking with Green, it'll be a major failure because we should have several candidates looking at this job.

 

[dzubrus8]

Just noticed that the sharks traded Okhotiuk to the flames for a 4 at the deadline

I just don't really get the Markstrom hype.

One thing I find funny about the Markstrom discussion is when people simplify it to “he’s good one year bad the next”. I don’t have his advanced stats in front of me but his last 4 years are .904, .922, .892, .909. There’s a chance this year, a “good season”, ends up with the same save percentage as 3 years ago, a “bad season”. Also I’ve never seen a player uphold that pattern long term and I wouldn’t have any meaningful explanation of why that happens

 

[MartyOwns]

The thing with Smith is weird, he was a healthy scratch down the stretch last year yet somehow can't come out of the lineup this year despite his really poor play.

he's the macdermid of the defense IMO. he's here because he's one of only a few guys that plays with snarl, but he's not talented enough to make any sort of meaningful impact. there is a middle ground between slug and skill, and those are the players fitz should be hunting for over the summer.

 

[JimEIV]

Bahl was not a rookie and Nemec would’ve likely had a minimal role if fully healthy, yes. We brought in Miller to play. The staff also has a love affair with Smith.

Regardless, Nemec ended up being 100% ready anyway and would be good enough to play on just about any team in the NHL.

You want argue over the definition of rookie fine, have at it...but there is no way in the world Bahl with 66 games of experience was ready to replace Graves 5v5 minutes and PK duties...

And Nemec hasn't been good.

You can validate your opinion with abstract stats all you want but Nemec is far from being a dependable defender. He was down right terrible vs Ottawa the other night and we see games like that from him on regular basis. And I'm sure we'll continue to see games like that for at least another year.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

You want argue over the definition of rookie fine, have at it...but there is no way in the world Bahl with 66 games of experience was ready to replace Graves 5v5 minutes and PK duties...

And Nemec hasn't been good.

You can validate your opinion with abstract stats all you want but Nemec is far from being a dependable defender. He was down right terrible vs Ottawa the other night and we see games like that from him on regular basis. And I'm sure we'll continue to see games like that for at least another year.

Nemec hasn’t been good. Lol. Conversation over.

 

[Devils Trap]

Nemec hasn’t been good. Lol. Conversation over.

Lmao there is just no point in arguing if they think Nemec has been bad

 

[JimEIV]

Nemec hasn’t been good. Lol. Conversation over.

You'll see...

As soon as there is another option he'll be buried deep on the 3rd pair or out of the lineup. And you'll be whining about about how he's being handled by the new coach. But I'll be here to remind you.

 

[MadDevil]

You'll see...

As soon as there is another option he'll be buried deep on the 3rd pair or out of the lineup. And you'll be whining about about how he's being handled by the new coach. But I'll be here to remind you.

This is a really bold prediction that Nemec might end up on the third pairing once Hamilton comes back...

 

[Devils Trap]

You'll see...

As soon as there is another option he'll be buried deep on the 3rd pair or out of the lineup. And you'll be whining about about how he's being handled by the new coach. But I'll be here to remind you.

Coaches incompetence does not equal poor play lol.

Nemec has been, by far, the best Defensemen on this team this year