Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[SteveCangialosi123]

you can say that about any goalie thats been hot for a stretch of time doesnt mean anything. there is ZERO nhl level goalies in the organization past the two starters we have now. the team went from two scrubs akira/vitek to two nhl scrubs allen/kahkonen who are playing great but who knows if its a fluke? or just the change of scenery. team still needs a 1 you can't walk back into next year with two unknowns again granted they are nhl level unknowns lol. also this can't be a yearly type deal they need to come up with something long term.

They’re good depth options as the number 3 and 4 in the organization. Of course I want a true number 1, but Saros is the only guy I’d be 100% confident in. Markstrom is getting to a scary age.

 

[Guadana]

call me crazy, but i am not convinced that nashville doesn't have a change of plans & is willing to move askarov this summer to extend saros. or trotz sets a price on the latter so high that nobody will meet it & he just keeps both, kicking that can down the road til next summer. i just think the team surpassing expectations could lead to him rethinking things.

They dont need to move Askarov. He is on ELC. They can roll on him as on a reliable back up as long as they want. Even with signed Saros they can have strong duo and it will cost them nothing. And it will make their "window" longer. Its much easier to find good players on the market than cheap and good goalie.

 

[JimEIV]

We are winning games about the same rate as before we got new goaltending right now...

We are in the same exact position in the standings as before we got new goaltending right now

March 8th 5th Wild Card spot .525 P%

Since we've won 4 of 9 games...one was Daws the other 8 were the new faces. So 4 and 4 with new goaltending and still firmly seated in the 5th Wild Card position. Getting.500 P%

The problems with this team are deeper than goaltending.

Goaltending isn't going to fix the problem of being soft and poor defense...but not being soft and playing superior defense will absolutely fix the goaltending.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

We are winning games about the same rate as before we got new goaltending right now...

We are in the same exact position in the standings as before we got new goaltending right now

March 8th 5th Wild Card spot .525 P%

Since we've won 4 of 9 games...one was Daws the other 8 were the new faces. So 4 and 4 with new goaltending and still firmly seated in the 5th Wild Card position. Getting.500 P%

The problems with this team are deeper than goaltending.

Goaltending isn't going to fix the problem of being soft and poor defense...but not being soft and playing superior defense will absolutely fix the goaltending.

We traded the leading goal scorer on the team and a solid veteran dman

 

[JimEIV]

We traded the leading goal scorer on the team and a solid veteran dman

Ahhh.
We're winning at the same rate as before the trade deadline because while we got good goaltending we lost goal scoring?

You honestly believe that? Toffolli is why we haven't improved since the trade deadline? That's what you're going with?

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Ahhh.
We're winning at the same rate as before the trade deadline because while we got good goaltending we lost goal scoring?

You honestly believe that? Toffolli is why we haven't improved since the trade deadline? That's what you're going with?

I’m not sure what you want? We haven’t really played very well as a team post deadline, or before the deadline. And of course, losing a good goal scorer and good dman makes the team not as good…

I don’t know what the point is here

 

[JimEIV]

I’m not sure what you want? We haven’t really played very well as a team post deadline, or before the deadline. And of course, losing a good goal scorer and good dman makes the team not as good…

I don’t know what the point is here

The point is goaltending is like 4th down the line of problems... Fitz even tried to tell the writerthat in a round about way...but the writer chose to ponder what-if goaltending for half the article.

And the point is that article is a microcosm of the discussions here...

We know deep down everything that is wrong and we chose to ignore it...break out some cards that don't reflect the dynamics of game play and make believe a goaltender is the magic bullet to all our problems.

 

[My3Sons]

We are winning games about the same rate as before we got new goaltending right now...

We are in the same exact position in the standings as before we got new goaltending right now

March 8th 5th Wild Card spot .525 P%

Since we've won 4 of 9 games...one was Daws the other 8 were the new faces. So 4 and 4 with new goaltending and still firmly seated in the 5th Wild Card position. Getting.500 P%

The problems with this team are deeper than goaltending.

Goaltending isn't going to fix the problem of being soft and poor defense...but not being soft and playing superior defense will absolutely fix the goaltending.

You aren’t wrong as I see it but at this point is anyone saying it’s only a goalie? I think the consensus is that they need changes from a personnel standpoint in all three areas of the team. It’s easy to see a single goalie making a bigger impact than a single skater but I think the right coach makes an even bigger difference.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I can't actually believe someone thinks that goaltending is FOURTH on the list of problems lol thats actually a wild observation. The interesting thing is that this same poster shit all over Cory Schneider for giving up goals at the worst times when he was here, yet now doesn't see a goaltending issue? Hmm.

the team needs at least one more decent defensive DMan. I don't think anyone has disagreed with that. The D will also improve organically with Hamilton returning, Nemec/Hughes getting another year, and Brendan Smith being gone.

 

[Better Call Sal]

The point is goaltending is like 4th down the line of problems... Fitz even tried to tell the writerthat in a round about way...but the writer chose to ponder what-if goaltending for half the article.

And the point is that article is a microcosm of the discussions here...

We know deep down everything that is wrong and we chose to ignore it...break out some cards that don't reflect the dynamics of game play and make believe a goaltender is the magic bullet to all our problems.

While I don't think you're completely off base here, keep in mind that a recurring theme of Fitz's when he's been available to the media has been that he's been in the market for a goalie for close to a year now. So I feel like he doesn't need to emphasize that any further than he already has several times, especially since the trade deadline.

This is a small sample size to analyze how the team is performing with new goaltenders in the mix. At its core, this is still the same coaching staff attempting to make whatever adjustments they can from what the team has done all season. So, of course, many of the same bad habits and inconsistencies that we've seen all season long are probably going to bubble up to the surface in this final stretch.

The next coaching hire will determine quite a bit with where we go from here. But I appreciate Fitz's honesty about what he needs to do for the roster. I'm glad he's identified his wants, now hopefully there are players that fit that bill available.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Before the deadline:

29.6 shots against/game (11th)
3.48 goals against/game (26th)

32.2 shots for/game (T-9th)
138 goals for 5v5 (8th)

After the deadline:

30.7 shots against/game (11th)
2.47 goals against/game (13th)

28.6 shots for/game (20th)
16 goals for 5v5 (T-17th)


The power play getting hot has masked the fact that offensively we've really struggled the past few weeks. In the last 9 games since the deadline, we've only scored 2 or more ES goals twice: vs DAL and vs PIT. That's the same number of times we scored 0 ES goals (vs WIN, vs NYR).

5v5 goals since 3/8/24 (9 games):

3 - Holtz
3 - Mercer
2 - Hischier
2 - Nosek
1 - J. Hughes
1 - Meier
1 - Bratt
1 - Haula
1 - Tierney
1 - DeSimone
0 - Everyone else combined

When Holtz, Mercer, and Nosek have as many goals as the rest of the roster combined - that's going to be a problem.

This is why we're losing despite giving up one less goal per game - the goaltending has improved, but the offense has sucked. It should be noted that we've only scored on the PP in three games since the deadline, and all of them were wins. 5 of the 6 games we didn't get PP goals were losses, the only exception being the weird Dallas game where the Stars forgot to show up. Otherwise the offense has sputtered at even strength.

Losses:
CAR - 1 GF 5v5
NYR - 0 GF 5v5
ARI - 1 GF 5v5
VGK - 1 GF 5v5
OTT - 2 GF 5v5

Wins:
DAL - 6 GF 5v5
PIT - 3 GF 5v5 (+2 PPG)
WIN - 0 GF 5v5 (+3 PPG)
NYI - 2 GF 5v5 (+1 PPG)

 

[Brodeur]

call me crazy, but i am not convinced that nashville doesn't have a change of plans & is willing to move askarov this summer to extend saros. or trotz sets a price on the latter so high that nobody will meet it & he just keeps both, kicking that can down the road til next summer. i just think the team surpassing expectations could lead to him rethinking things.

Trotz seemed willing to give up Askarov to land a high end young center prospect at last year's draft. They'll have until next summer to make a call on Askarov when his ELC expires. I'm usually skeptical about using offer sheets, but targeting somebody's #2 goalie makes more sense since the other team might not have the cap space to have a high priced backup. Florida was worried about Spencer Knight signing an offer sheet which led to his current extension which they might be having mild regrets about.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I don't think that interview said a whole lot at all, definitely not stuff to feel amazing over.

Continuing the trope of blaming Luke and Nemec for the blue line woes when statistically its been Siegs, Marino, Bahl, and Smith that have been dropping the ball seems off.

Wanting the team to be tougher is fine in theory, but generally when GMs start talking about their team being soft, their solution usually ends up being the Smiths or the McDermott's of the world. Not the Brady's of the world.

Wingers that can both be tough AND play hockey would be welcome, but need to see those guys actually brought in and not the next Brandon Smith.

 

[MadDevil]

The main problem lies in the fact that Markstrom is older, but only signed for 2 more years and will cost less assets than Saros.

Saros is younger, will cost more assets, but also needs a new contract. And I am kind of against giving any goalie a huge/longterm contract.

So you kind of have to balance out the risk/reward (just speaking between these 2 guys). Then obviously you have someone like Ullmark who might fall somewhere between these 2 guys, but he is 30 and also would need a new contract.

I don't like long term goalie contracts either, but with Saros you'd be looking at a longer window to win than Markstrom, who is basically a win in the next 2 years or bust move, and then you're potentially in the same spot 2 years from now, unless somebody from within develops into the heir apparent.

 

[Emperoreddy]

That's the other thing, the plan also wasn't to play two rookies like they have (I assume Bahl is being considered a pure rookie). Nemec was supposed to spend the year in Utica and maybe push Miller out.

Dougie going down forced Nemec in, but again the actual issues on D came from Siegs, Marino and of course Smith.

 

[bossram]

I can't actually believe someone thinks that goaltending is FOURTH on the list of problems lol thats actually a wild observation. The interesting thing is that this same poster shit all over Cory Schneider for giving up goals at the worst times when he was here, yet now doesn't see a goaltending issue? Hmm.

the team needs at least one more decent defensive DMan. I don't think anyone has disagreed with that. The D will also improve organically with Hamilton returning, Nemec/Hughes getting another year, and Brendan Smith being gone.

It's kinda more nuanced than that, though I disagree with this premise on face value.

Yes, goaltending has been the primary/a major problem. But the issue with labelling goaltending as "the problem" is that goaltending itself is just so volatile and ephemeral. You can think you're solving it, but the new guys might still stink up the joint because that's just goaltending. Or you can find some scrubs that go on a 6 week heater before turning into AHLers again. That's just how goaltending is.

Unless you have a truly elite goalie, I don't think prioritizing "fixing" the goaltending should be that important. The Devils are poorly coached, aren't strong defensively, and need better forechecking/possessing extending forwards. Those are much more solvable issues than goaltending.

 

[JimEIV]

This site is becoming unbearable....freezes and hangs forever


I have to fold my clothes now ...since I stopped working my wife makes me folded and put away my clothes....it makes me angry for some unknown reason....I do it all wrong and make a mess in hopes she won't adk me to do it again...but it's not working this time.

 

[My3Sons]

This site is becoming unbearable....freezes and hangs forever


I have to fold my clothes now ...since I stopped working my wife makes me folded and put away my clothes....it makes me angry for some unknown reason....I do it all wrong and make a mess in hopes she won't adk me to do it again...but it's not working this time.

she gave you retirement chores? That is funny. Do you have to empty the trash and clean the lint filter on the dryer as well? How about emptying the dishwasher?

 

[JimEIV]

she gave you retirement chores? That is funny. Do you have to empty the trash and clean the lint filter on the dryer as well? How about emptying the dishwasher?

I don't even know where the lint filter is on the dryer...not lying but yeah I have chores now. It's not funny though.

 

[MartyOwns]

It's kinda more nuanced than that, though I disagree with this premise on face value.

Yes, goaltending has been the primary/a major problem. But the issue with labelling goaltending as "the problem" is that goaltending itself is just so volatile and ephemeral. You can think you're solving it, but the new guys might still stink up the joint because that's just goaltending. Or you can find some scrubs that go on a 6 week heater before turning into AHLers again. That's just how goaltending is.

Unless you have a truly elite goalie, I don't think prioritizing "fixing" the goaltending should be that important. The Devils are poorly coached, aren't strong defensively, and need better forechecking/possessing extending forwards. Those are much more solvable issues than goaltending.

i’m not sure we really need elite goaltending (although i certainly wouldn’t turn it down). this talented roster plus slightly above average goaltending plus a coach who isn’t a dipshit gets us in the playoffs quite easily. that should be the short term goal. unfortunately, due to our drafting, it currently seems like we’re going to have to pay a handsome price to bring a competent goalie in.

how jim can say that having literally the worst goaltending in the league for most of the season isn’t the obvious number one problem is incomprehensible, unless you’ve seen jim’s hf resume over the last ten years.

 

[glenwo2]

Kahkonen is no different than Vanecek. It’s a non-starter to bring him back. We don’t have eternity to win with this core.

I agree.

Let's not fall into that trap again.

Let's go after Saros / Ullmark/ Markstrom and have Allen back them up...then we'll be in business.

 

[glenwo2]

That's the other thing, the plan also wasn't to play two rookies like they have (I assume Bahl is being considered a pure rookie). Nemec was supposed to spend the year in Utica and maybe push Miller out.

Dougie going down forced Nemec in, but again the actual issues on D came from Siegs, Marino and of course Smith.

Who is Josh Reinitz?

 

[bossram]

i’m not sure we really need elite goaltending (although i certainly wouldn’t turn it down). this talented roster plus slightly above average goaltending plus a coach who isn’t a dipshit gets us in the playoffs quite easily. that should be the short term goal. unfortunately, due to our drafting, it currently seems like we’re going to have to pay a handsome price to bring a competent goalie in.

how jim can say that having literally the worst goaltending in the league for most of the season isn’t the obvious number one problem is incomprehensible, unless you’ve seen jim’s hf resume over the last ten years.

Again, I'm not saying the goaltending is not a problem. I'm saying that I'm not sure how much they can really address it, outside of somehow acquiring an elite goaltender. Goalies are voodoo. And this season even guys like Sorokin, Shesterkin, Oettinger, and Vasi have largely been below-par to outright bad.

Of the "solutions" people have been proposing, the only one I'm remotely interested in is Saros, and he would need a big extension. Markstrom is old, breaks down late in every season, and alternates between good and bad seasons. Ullmark is a Bruins' system goalie. I'm not interested in those guys.

I'd rather focus on upgrading the blueline with a legitimate defensive presence (my preference is Marcus Pettersson as a trade candidate), and adding forechecking two-way forwards in free agency (guys like Debrusk, Foegele, and Trenin).

 

[Better Call Sal]

I don't think that interview said a whole lot at all, definitely not stuff to feel amazing over.

Continuing the trope of blaming Luke and Nemec for the blue line woes when statistically its been Siegs, Marino, Bahl, and Smith that have been dropping the ball seems off.

Wanting the team to be tougher is fine in theory, but generally when GMs start talking about their team being soft, their solution usually ends up being the Smiths or the McDermott's of the world. Not the Brady's of the world.

Wingers that can both be tough AND play hockey would be welcome, but need to see those guys actually brought in and not the next Brandon Smith.

I think if you have a negative outlook overall, you won't view what Fitz is discussing here through an optimistic lens.

When he's talking about taking a step back in certain areas, I'm quite sure he means from letting both Severson and Graves go in favor of giving Bahl a bigger role and Luke (with eventually Nemec) getting their chances with the big club. It doesn't matter how it happened ultimately, but Nemec has been given a hefty share of minutes. While they have largely performed well, all of that has undoubtedly had a ripple effect on the defense and team as a whole. And that can lead to struggles. Luke has also unsurprisingly hit a rookie wall. He's not blaming them at all. He's saying they chose to live with the hiccups of giving those responsibilities to younger, less experienced defenders and that it will only help them going forward.

Identifying where the team's weaknesses are is absolutely necessary for him to make the right moves this offseason. And this interview seems to show he has that awareness. I also think the below shows he's not talking about just getting guys like you described in Smith and MacDermid but guys who will help our skilled players succeed:

“Get harder on the wing,” Fitzgerald said. “We’ve got enough talent for offense, but the game is still physical. You got to take hits to make plays. I want a team that is committed to playing through guys, not just circling off guys.

“And (players) who will allow our guys some time and space, because when guys in our league have time and space, they can make great plays. … Those are characteristics in certain players that I will be looking for.”

 

[longislanddevil]

I would love to sign Foegele in the offseason, if for no other reason than to chant “McLOVIN!!!” when he scores a goal.