Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part II

[JimEIV]

I've literally played hockey growing up my entire life, that's the stupidest argument to bring up. If you can't argue why Tkachuk is a better player than Bratt other than "lolz grit matters a lot man" then keep the argument man

Goals and durability are two big reasons to objectively take Brady over Bratt.

Over the last 4 season Brady has played 44 more games than Jesper....that's a half of season of extra hockey Ottawa got out of Brady than we got from Jesper...so if those two players are similar in PPG, the guy who is playing the extra 44 games over the same time period is giving significantly more to his team.

Goal scoring they aren't in the same league. Over the last 4 years Jesper had 57 and Brady had 90 goals.

Then you get to size and style of play
I don't know how anyone can make believe that 6'4 211 vs 5'10 175 is meaningless. It probably plays a significant role in those extra 44 games played...but one of these are able to play a lot of different ways and one simply can't...Jesper is never going to be able grind out goals, provide a net front presence or out muscle anyone in dirty areas... Brady can and he play in open fast pace game as well... Stylistically Brady provides many more options.

I think I am being objective here. I like Bratt a lot. He's an excellent player...but I'd take a Brady like player for this team in a second over Bratt for the goals alone and then the versatility..in fact I think the lack of versatility in players is the biggest problem for this organization.

 

[glenwo2]

Only actual news we heard is Fitz made an offer weeks and weeks ago and never heard back.

Since then Friedman tweeted something about talks on a long term deal are going nowhere, but admits he’s speculating.

Then we just found out, Bratt is asking arbitrator for 6.something mil and fitz has him at 4.something.

That’s it.

Too me it looks like fitz has Bratt backed into a corner, and he can either take a longer term deal with whatever AAV fitz wants, or he can play for a year and risk it all in hopes of getting a better contract next year. Clocks ticking!

Arbitration is Wednesday.

If I'm Bratt, I take no chances.

What if he gets hit in the face with a hockey puck in Practice and breaks his jaw again or some other freak injury like that?

He would kiss any shot at big money goodbye at that point.

If I was Bratt, I would take NO CHANCES here and just take as much as Fitz is willing to give me and call it a day.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Depends what news you're after. It goes to a hearing on Wednesday so if he's not signed by then it's not good.

I believe they have 48 hours after the hearing to decide on the amount, so it won't be wrapped up until Friday.

True, I don't really care about the arbitration result if it gets to that. I just care if they get to arbitration at all.

Just read that Bratt's camp filed for $6.5m.. if that's the case, why is this taking so long? Pay the man!

term. Anyone who's been paying attention to Fitz know he's all about term.

 

[Better Call Sal]

Google "Skinner, Jeff".

Except Skinner had four 30 goal seasons before he received an outrageous contract.

Like Jesper he has no playoff points in his career.

Jeff Skinner just came off a 33 goal season so this isn't the comparison you think it is.

 

[TBF1972]

It’s as if you and @My3Sons havent seen that I’ve been producing at the Highest level for years now. It’s not even this “underlying” numbers BS, I’m flat out putting up points year after year. I’m kindve offended

sounds like a wide turn

 

[Bcap88]

Fitz is playing this smart tbh

 

[NJDevs26]

Brady is better than Bratt, but what is the point? No way OTT gives us Brady for Bratt cmon

Yeah I was getting confused, I thought we were arguing Brady and Matt again, I was gonna say dude scored 100 points and we're making the case Bratt is better?

For the record I don't think Bratt is better than Thachuk based on analytics charts. Brady is a better goalscorer and more physical player, Bratt has more speed and gets more assists, they're pretty much on a similar level, just different types of players - obviously everyone is automatically going to think one type is more important than the other. Brady has 192 points in 277 career games, Bratt has 203 points in 307 career games so a slight edge on production to Brady to this point, but I get production doesn't matter to some people in any case.

 

[glenwo2]

Have we made it to the Fireworks Factory yet?

 

[NJDevs26]

Fitz is playing this smart tbh

Only if you think Bratt:
A) Shouldn't get more than 6.5-7 million
B) Would actually sign that contract here

I don't think either are true, Bratt definitely deserves at least in the 7's going by comparables signed this offseason. If Bratt was going to sign a 6.5-7 million long-term deal he wouldn't have his first arb number at that amount. And if Fitz was offering much more than that he wouldn't have his first arb number stupid low begging the arbitrator to award in favor of Bratt.

People can beat their chest and say Bratt doesn't deserve the money but let's be honest, if we have to trade him for futures, that sets the rebuild back another couple years unless they do a risky-ass trade like the Flames and sign whatever pending FA's they get back for him (who likely wouldn't be 23 years old).

 

[Bcap88]

Only if you think Bratt:
A) Shouldn't get more than 6.5-7 million
B) Would actually sign that contract here

I don't think either are true, Bratt definitely deserves at least in the 7's going by comparables signed this offseason. If Bratt was going to sign a 6.5-7 million long-term deal he wouldn't have his first arb number at that amount. And if Fitz was offering much more than that he wouldn't have his first arb number stupid low begging the arbitrator to award in favor of Bratt.

People can beat their chest and say Bratt doesn't deserve the money but let's be honest, if we have to trade him for futures, that sets the rebuild back another couple years unless they do a risky-ass trade like the Flames and sign whatever pending FA's they get back for him (who likely wouldn't be 23 years old).

More of the view that he won’t be making more than 6.5 this year and anything more will likely force the devils to use ltir and limit their flexibility. Bratt and NJ settle on tbe one year arbitration deal then go back at it next year when mango,Tatar and severson are off the books allowing fitz to up the offer comfortably. Then at that point if Bratt declines then you can trade him as a last resort

 

[NJDevs26]

More of the view that he won’t be making more than 6.5 this year and anything more will likely force the devils to use ltir and limit their flexibility. Bratt and NJ settle on tbe one year arbitration deal then go back at it next year when mango,Tatar and severson are off the books allowing fitz to up the offer comfortably. Then at that point if Bratt declines then you can trade him as a last resort

Going down to the wire next offseason after two failed long-term negotiations with someone who clearly wants to maximize earnings isn't a master strategy I would have in mind, where Bratt can raise his price with another spectacular year and you're basically just getting a Kevin Fiala return if next offseason proves to be strike three.

 

[Bcap88]

Going down to the wire next offseason after two failed long-term negotiations with someone who clearly wants to maximize earnings isn't a master strategy I would have in mind, where Bratt can raise his price with another spectacular year and you're basically just getting a Kevin Fiala return if next offseason is strike three.

Well then all hope is lost just trade him now then lol

And it was already reported that the 6.5 figure is not representative of the devils long term offer. So it’s just really Bratt not wanting to be here long term is my guess

 

[NJDevs26]

Well then all hope is lost just trade him now then lol

I think it's on the table starting in a couple days. Especially since I don't think Fitz (assuming he is offering in the ballpark of 6.5-7 this offseason) is suddenly going to go up to 9 next offseason, nor do I think Bratt would sign a reduced offer if he drops to say, 55 points next season. Fitz is set on team-friendly deals or gtfo, which is nice when you have a winning culture with a stacked team, but not when you're still trying to get to a playoff-level contender. Bratt is set on wanting the most money unlike others who've signed.

 

[Bcap88]

I think it's on the table starting in a couple days. Especially since I don't think Fitz (assuming he is offering in the ballpark of 6.5-7 this offseason) is suddenly going to go up to 9 next offseason. He's set on team-friendly deals or gtfo, which is nice when you have a stacked team but not when you're still trying to get to a playoff-level contender.

I’m leaning toward Bratt wants a 3 year deal and fitz wants closer to 6. I don’t think money is tbe hold up I think it’s more term is what is driving this thing

 

[NJDevs26]

I’m leaning toward Bratt wants a 3 year deal and fitz wants closer to 6. I don’t think money is tbe hold up I think it’s more term is what is driving this thing

Term is about money though...a 3-4 year deal at $7-8 million not only gives you UFA value over half an RFA contract, but it also sets you in line for another potentially bigger contract at 27. A 7-8 year deal at $7 million per pretty much rules out a max term deal on your next contract and arguably leaves a lot of money on the table through five or six UFA years.

 

[Camille the Eel]

What are the arbitration rules? Is this so called “baseball arbitration” where the arbitrator has to take one figure or the other, or can the arbitrator substitute their own amount?

 

[glenwo2]

I think it's on the table starting in a couple days. Especially since I don't think Fitz (assuming he is offering in the ballpark of 6.5-7 this offseason) is suddenly going to go up to 9 next offseason, nor do I think Bratt would sign a reduced offer if he drops to say, 55 points next season. Fitz is set on team-friendly deals or gtfo, which is nice when you have a winning culture with a stacked team, but not when you're still trying to get to a playoff-level contender. Bratt is set on wanting the most money unlike others who've signed.

I've said this before :

I would love for Fitz to get Bratt to sign a Team-Friendly deal but sooner or later he's going to have to bite the bullet and sign a contract that's not so team-friendly.


And I would rather that type of contract be at least given to one of our HOMEGROWN players than some Mercenary we trade for (or sign in UFA).

 

[FooteBahl]

What are the arbitration rules? Is this so called “baseball arbitration” where the arbitrator has to take one figure or the other, or can the arbitrator substitute their own amount?

I’m pretty sure the “judge” comes up with a number of their own and then the team has a few days to accept or they become a UFA

 

[njdevil26]

I’m pretty sure the “judge” comes up with a number of their own and then the team has a few days to accept or they become a UFA

Always seems to me like they add the numbers from each side and divide by 2 lol

 

[Jersey Fresh]

You’re all going to look like suckers when Bratt signs for 8 years/48 million tomorrow.

 

[Mgd31]

You’re all going to look like suckers when Bratt signs for 8 years/48 million tomorrow.

More like 1 year at $5.3 million

 

[glenwo2]

You’re all going to look like suckers when Bratt signs for 8 years/48 million tomorrow.

If that actually happens, the GIF party would be incredible.

but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Triumph]

Goals and durability are two big reasons to objectively take Brady over Bratt.

Over the last 4 season Brady has played 44 more games than Jesper....that's a half of season of extra hockey Ottawa got out of Brady than we got from Jesper...so if those two players are similar in PPG, the guy who is playing the extra 44 games over the same time period is giving significantly more to his team.

Goal scoring they aren't in the same league. Over the last 4 years Jesper had 57 and Brady had 90 goals.

Then you get to size and style of play
I don't know how anyone can make believe that 6'4 211 vs 5'10 175 is meaningless. It probably plays a significant role in those extra 44 games played...but one of these are able to play a lot of different ways and one simply can't...Jesper is never going to be able grind out goals, provide a net front presence or out muscle anyone in dirty areas... Brady can and he play in open fast pace game as well... Stylistically Brady provides many more options.

I think I am being objective here. I like Bratt a lot. He's an excellent player...but I'd take a Brady like player for this team in a second over Bratt for the goals alone and then the versatility..in fact I think the lack of versatility in players is the biggest problem for this organization.

This is all silly because it's based on what the players have done, not what they will do. So Brady Tkachuk has been more durable so far, but if you look at Keith Tkachuk's career, he was durable early and then started to miss games every year. We've seen Ovechkin manage to play this style of game over a career and hold up, but most players who play a physical style like this just don't. I think Bratt is likely to play more games over the next 5 years than Tkachuk.

Brady Tkachuk puts a ton of shots on net. He is a high-volume, low-quality shooter. So yes, he's going to score more goals. But he's atrocious defensively and his shot choice hurts his team too.

 

[Azathoth]

Have we made it to the Fireworks Factory yet?

More like the glue factory for everyone's favorite unicorn.

 

[Billdo]

4 years, 6.8 aav is my guess.