Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part I

[MadDevil]

It's concerning that our players have routinely played hurt which then changed to being injured. You can play hurt, but when these guys do and it's turns into injuries the medical staff needs to be looked at. Are these guys needing to be saved from themselves and told to sit? Or is the organization pressuring them to continue even though they probably shouldn't?

I don't think it's just a Devils thing either. The whole sport has glorified playing through pain so much that it's become normalized for players to try to "suck it up" and play through things they probably shouldn't (and likely be less than honest with the medical staff). It's stupid these days with their contracts being guaranteed. This isnt like the 1950's where you might lose your spot on the team. It's the same mentality wrestlers had when they'd be all drugged up and hurt because they were afraid they'd lose their spot.

The league doesn't help by allowing them to get away with this vague lower or upper body bullshit. They should have to report injuries accurately. And if some asshole decides to target that injury, there's this department that supposedly cares about player safety (sometimes, occasionally, depending on which player it is and what time of season) to step in.

It's an entire culture that needs to change and we all know how extremely conservative this league is.

 

[JimEIV]

I don't think it's just a Devils thing either. The whole sport has glorified playing through pain so much that it's become normalized for players to try to "suck it up" and play through things they probably shouldn't (and likely be less than honest with the medical staff). It's stupid these days with their contracts being guaranteed. This isnt like the 1950's where you might lose your spot on the team. It's the same mentality wrestlers had when they'd be all drugged up and hurt because they were afraid they'd lose their spot.

The league doesn't help by allowing them to get away with this vague lower or upper body bullshit. They should have to report injuries accurately. And if some asshole decides to target that injury, there's this department that supposedly cares about player safety (sometimes, occasionally, depending on which player it is and what time of season) to step in.

It's an entire culture that needs to change and we all know how extremely conservative this league is.

You can target injuries in a way that is completely within the rules and fair play...

If it's the playoffs and I know Jack Hughes has a bad shoulder, if I'm a coach I'm making sure my guys finish their checks on Jack every chance they get...any opportunity to punish him I want my guys to take... letting everyone know specific injuries would be like putting star players faces on old west wanted posters ....and there would be nothing the league could do to stop it.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

i would love arvidsson, small player but tenacious

And too often injured if I'm not mistaken.

 

[My3Sons]

You can target injuries in a way that is completely within the rules and fair play...

If it's the playoffs and I know Jack Hughes has a bad shoulder, if I'm a coach I'm making sure my guys finish their checks on Jack every chance they get...any opportunity to punish him I want my guys to take... letting everyone know specific injuries would be like putting star players faces on old west wanted posters ....and there would be nothing the league could do to stop it.

If you surrounded Iack with a bunch of sprays and started taking out the other team’s best players they’d at least be even.

 

[MadDevil]

You can target injuries in a way that is completely within the rules and fair play...

If it's the playoffs and I know Jack Hughes has a bad shoulder, if I'm a coach I'm making sure my guys finish their checks on Jack every chance they get...any opportunity to punish him I want my guys to take... letting everyone know specific injuries would be like putting star players faces on old west wanted posters ....and there would be nothing the league could do to stop it.

They could do something about it if they grew a f***ing spine and actually punished players. Unfortunately they won't because this league is stupid.

 

[Bleedred]

Rogalski sucks

This

And I’m pretty sure Brodeur sucks too

I have no emotional attachment to Marty the business man. I loved John MacLean the player, but f*** MacLean the coach.

I liken these legendary players turned GM’s/coaches to an actor you liked that turned into a politician.

That doesn’t mean I have an immediate bias to a player turned coach/GM, but Brodeur hasn’t done a good job in his role. He could go work for Lou tomorrow and I would pack a bag for him. I guarantee you it will be much easier to see him in his suit standing on the bench with the Islanders or up in their press box than it was to see him play for another NHL team before he hung it up.

 

[MadDevil]

To help wash out the taste of the Rangers winning last night...

https://x.com/i/web/status/1794391725814722733

 

[HoliksGhost]

It’s over

 

[BostonDevil]

Ullmark was good in Buffalo too. We should be more concerned about his age/new contract/injury history/past usage.

Ullmark in Buffalo was Vitek in Washington.

2 years of ~34 starts with a .908 save %

No thanks.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

To help wash out the taste of the Rangers winning last night...

https://x.com/i/web/status/1794391725814722733

Junior in high school to a full on adult with a career/GF and that goal was ONLY 12 years ago. I understand why the old heads (no offense ) are yearning back for the glory days, granted you guys have seen the cups compared to us younger fans/fans after the glory years

 

[Bleedred]

I went from having maybe 10% gray in my beard to it being like 90% gray since that goal in 2012.

And considerable hair thinning.

At least I'm not nearly as heavy. There's always that.

 

[beekay414]

This

And I’m pretty sure Brodeur sucks too

I have no emotional attachment to Marty the business man. I loved John MacLean the player, but f*** MacLean the coach.

I liken these legendary players turned GM’s/coaches to an actor you liked that turned into a politician.

That doesn’t mean I have an immediate bias to a player turned coach/GM, but Brodeur hasn’t done a good job in his role. He could go work for Lou tomorrow and I would pack a bag for him. I guarantee you it will be much easier to see him in his suit standing on the bench with the Islanders or up in their press box than it was to see him play for another NHL team before he hung it up.

Yep. If the only reason why Rogalski is still employed is because of Brodeur's sway with the organization, then Brodeur can get lost as well. Michael Jordan was a great basketball player but he's proven time and again that he has a shit eye for talent whether it be a coach or player. Being a legendary player means f*** all when it comes to organizational matters. Rogalski has half a decade of ineptitude as proof that he ain't it.

 

[NJDevils17]

This

And I’m pretty sure Brodeur sucks too

I have no emotional attachment to Marty the business man. I loved John MacLean the player, but f*** MacLean the coach.

I liken these legendary players turned GM’s/coaches to an actor you liked that turned into a politician.

That doesn’t mean I have an immediate bias to a player turned coach/GM, but Brodeur hasn’t done a good job in his role. He could go work for Lou tomorrow and I would pack a bag for him. I guarantee you it will be much easier to see him in his suit standing on the bench with the Islanders or up in their press box than it was to see him play for another NHL team before he hung it up.

I don’t trust Marty do anything in management. Period.

Rogalski has proven to be nothing but disastrous.

 

[NJ DevLolz]

This

And I’m pretty sure Brodeur sucks too

I have no emotional attachment to Marty the business man. I loved John MacLean the player, but f*** MacLean the coach.

I liken these legendary players turned GM’s/coaches to an actor you liked that turned into a politician.

That doesn’t mean I have an immediate bias to a player turned coach/GM, but Brodeur hasn’t done a good job in his role. He could go work for Lou tomorrow and I would pack a bag for him. I guarantee you it will be much easier to see him in his suit standing on the bench with the Islanders or up in their press box than it was to see him play for another NHL team before he hung it up.

What’s this based on? Marty’s role is kind of vague

 

[njdevils1982]

This

And I’m pretty sure Brodeur sucks too

I have no emotional attachment to Marty the business man. I loved John MacLean the player, but f*** MacLean the coach.

I liken these legendary players turned GM’s/coaches to an actor you liked that turned into a politician.

what did the governator ever do to you?

alternate lyrics on this version

 

[Guttersniped]

Ullmark in Buffalo was Vitek in Washington.

2 years of ~34 starts with a .908 save %

No thanks.

What years?

All of Ullmark’s seasons in Buffalo:


His last three seasons in Buffalo:


His last two seasons in Buffalo:


He was always better on a worse team.

Now Ullmark isn’t a guy I necessarily feel great about getting because
1) He’s always played in a tandem but will have to paid like a work horse.
2) The Vezina season sticks out as an outlier but he still has to be paid more as an UFA because it.

But he was very good goalie in Buffalo, he was hampered by injuries at times and hampered by being a Sabre.

In 2020-21 we were 4-3-1 vs Buffalo, we only lost to them when Ullmark was healthy. (They were pretty awful that season.)

 

[Bleedred]

What’s this based on? Marty’s role is kind of vague

He's the director of goaltending for the organization, even if he doesn't have that title. Some teams have guys in that title, some teams don't. Marty is definitely that guy, even though it's not in his job title, as far as I know.

He's on record saying him (and Scott Clemmensen) formed this goalie committee (I think around the time Fitz became the full time GM) and ''Cleaned up the goalie coaching position'' which started off by firing Melanson, who Blackwood performed well under (Schneider was shot before Melanson even got here and Melanson was hired to try to revive Cory because he was his goalie coach in Vancouver) and then hired this guy, who has been a disaster. Everyone has performed worse under him (not that I blame things like Gillies performing poorly under him, Gillies just turned 30 and didn't play pro hockey at all this year) and he's about to have had his job for more seasons than Melanson had his here, unless he's fired this offseason.

 

[Guttersniped]

He's the director of goaltending for the organization, even if he doesn't have that title. Some teams have guys in that title, some teams don't. Marty is definitely that guy, even though it's not in his job title, as far as I know.

He's on record saying him (and Scott Clemmensen) formed this goalie committee (I think around the time Fitz became the full time GM) and ''Cleaned up the goalie coaching position'' which started off by firing Melanson, who Blackwood performed well under (Schneider was shot before Melanson even got here and Melanson was hired to try to revive Cory because he was his goalie coach in Vancouver) and then hired this guy, who has been a disaster. Everyone has performed worse under him (not that I blame things like Gillies performing poorly under him, Gillies just turned 30 and didn't play pro hockey at all this year) and he's about to have had his job for more seasons than Melanson had his here, unless he's fired this offseason.

Scott Clemmensen was a Development Coach from 2015-19, and then:

The New Jersey Devils have announced several new roles and promotions among their hockey operations staff, starting with anointing a Director, Goaltending Development. Scott Clemmensen will serve in that role for the Devils, overseeing all goaltending development alongside Martin Brodeur, Brian Eklund and Dave Rogalski.

link

Brodeur obviously knew Rogalski from the Blues.

Clemmensen had worked at seminars with Brian Eklund before that, and they both had Boston College ties, so he might have got him hired.

Anders Nilsson has been a goalie scout since 2020-21.

 

[Bleedred]

Scott Clemmensen was a Development Coach from 2015-19, and then:


link

Brodeur obviously knew Rogalski from the Blues.

Clemmensen had worked at seminars with Brian Eklund before that, and they both had Boston College ties, so he might have got him hired.

Anders Nilsson has been a goalie scout since 2020-21.

I knew Clemmensen had been here since he retired from playing. While it seemed like a Lou buddy hire I’m pretty sure it was Shero who hired him as goalie development coach.

Brodeur came back to work here in 2018, which I can’t remember what his title was, but it wasn’t really anything in hockey ops (I don’t think) until Shero was fired and he was put in charge of some kind of role for the remainder of the season.

I think it was 2020 (when the Fitz interim tag was removed and around the time Ruff was hired) that they decided to bring in Rogalski.

I don’t know if there really was a goalie committee before this. We know Clemmensen was already here for 5 years by that point and Marty for 2 years, most of which was spent in some kind of business/marketing role.

But there was a podcast a couple of years ago that someone posted here where Marty says something about how he and Clemmensen are the heads of the goalie committee or department, whatever word he used. And one of the changes they decided to make was to “Clean up” the goalie coaching position. Which I don’t really needed cleaning in the first place, other then new people in charge wanted to bring in their own guys.

 

[devilsblood]

He's the director of goaltending for the organization, even if he doesn't have that title. Some teams have guys in that title, some teams don't. Marty is definitely that guy, even though it's not in his job title, as far as I know.

He's on record saying him (and Scott Clemmensen) formed this goalie committee (I think around the time Fitz became the full time GM) and ''Cleaned up the goalie coaching position'' which started off by firing Melanson, who Blackwood performed well under (Schneider was shot before Melanson even got here and Melanson was hired to try to revive Cory because he was his goalie coach in Vancouver) and then hired this guy, who has been a disaster. Everyone has performed worse under him (not that I blame things like Gillies performing poorly under him, Gillies just turned 30 and didn't play pro hockey at all this year) and he's about to have had his job for more seasons than Melanson had his here, unless he's fired this offseason.

Vitek had his best year in his career under Rogalski did he not?

Various other guys have had small stretches of strong play, including Schmid and Allen.

Blackwood fell off, but the Covid/injury season seemed to derail his career, and as you like to point out, he never put up good numbers in the AHL.

Rogalski hasn't really had much by way of talent to work with.

 

[devilsblood]

And too often injured if I'm not mistaken.

Wait till our medical staff gets a hold of him.

I'm kidding, just playing to the narrative.

 

[crashline]

Kulikov's a pending UFA who'd plug in prett-y nicely in the 'Smith' role.

Best hits of the playoffs

One's a first ballot HOF,r and one isn't I mean...wait a bit before you put Tkachuk in the HOF. He's still a little green.

forums.hfboards.com

 

[Ripshot 43]

Kulikov's a pending UFA who'd plug in prett-y nicely in the 'Smith' role.

Best hits of the playoffs

One's a first ballot HOF,r and one isn't I mean...wait a bit before you put Tkachuk in the HOF. He's still a little green.

forums.hfboards.com

he would be an upgrade for the Smith role for sure IF, we can’t get a bigger fish to slot everyone on the left down.

 

[devilsblood]

Jack and Meier were also playing hurt at various points of this season as was Siegenthaler...

Seems more than a coincidence, looks more like a trend

Did Sieg's play hurt? I know he was hurt, and missed games, but did he play hurt?

I know that different players handle it differently but yeah. I don’t like rolling hurt guys out there as a regular thing. The idea that “he can’t make it worse” is flawed. Inflammation and pain can lead to overcompensating and at a minimum will severely degrade the speed and explosion and strength these guys need to use. Again if I was the coach there would be no dumbassery. This stuff isn’t complicated.

We had guys missing games all over the place. Yes we had injuries which guys played through, but we also lost a ton of games due to injury, star players and grinders alike. If the team was pressing guys to play, they weren't pressing all that hard

Now I will add a caveat (or two). We did have multiple guys, including Nico, take a head shot and then get right back out there. That's an area where I say, OK let's just sit this one out. In two cases that I remember(and I think there may have been a 3rd) the player went back out and got smashed yet again. Nico missed games after that. Bastian we haven't heard from since. Were we more guilty of this then other teams? Maybe.

Another potential Caveat is Jack, he clearly altered his game because of the shoulder. His game went from, elite star player, to kind of not good. He's a small player to begin with, the shoulder(s) is a reoccurring issue, him getting back to star player level is clearly a key for this team, maybe him shutting it down, having the surgery, rehabbing, and then having time to hit the weight room was the more prudent road to take. If he comes into next season without being noticeably stronger(or at least showing hints of starting that progress, baby steps and all) I'll be a bit frustrated.

And a third would be Blackwood a couple years ago. Kind of vague now, but that did seem to be a case of the situation being so dire that we were asking a lot from a player who was well below 100% physically.

Now Meier? And even Jack, first let's not forget that both of these guys did miss a chunk of games, but I do appreciate these players playing through injury when they can. I do like that mindset. And in all cases if the injury is not enough for the medical staff to say "this needs to be shut down" then it is on the players. Different sport, but you see guys like Ben Simmons who never plays, or Kyrie Irving who has injury issues whenever his team is bad, I don't want those guys. Give me guys who want to play and who are willing to play even when they are banged up.

 

[dzubrus8]

Two questions —

1. who would people be willing to trade #10 for? 3 different buckets: (1) straight up, (2) use it as part of a larger package (ie #10 + Mercer for Tkachuk) or (3) use it and get players and picks back (#10 for Markstrom and Vancouver 1st)

2. There’s a video that plays right before puck drop at the rock with a dude with white hair in a black ski cap (kinda looks like Sean Connery) saying something that sounds like “let’s go”. Anybody know what that’s from and what he’s saying? I was joking around about it with someone the other day and neither of us know what that’s actually from