Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part I

[JrFischer54]

So we're trading for, and probably signing, Ullmark and relying on Allen in the playoffs?

If we're throwing Boston a 4th and paying him $4M for 3 more years, I'm in. Otherwise NOPE!

I'm with you - Everything else is a better option.

i dont get the ullmark hype myself im sure hes a good goalie but i dont know if i trust anyone in that bruins net to be a great goalie to get us to the next level.

i can live with a good goalie if we aren't paying a ton to get him or giving him a big contract. neither will be the case with ullmark though

 

[Billdo]

To be perfectly honest the only goalie out of the three that have been talked about, excessively, is Saros. I want no part of Markstrom or Ullmark if 10A is involved unless something else is coming back with them that's rather significant. I also don't really think Markstrom is very good anymore and Ullmark has benefited from the team around him. Neither will age well with respect to their contract. Saros has a better chance to be a quality goaltender for more years of a new deal and his cost to acquire will be higher. This is a tricky spot, I don't necessarily want to "big game hunt" for a goalie especially at the cost of an already pretty empty prospect pool.

 

[BurntToast]

To be perfectly honest the only goalie out of the three that have been talked about, excessively, is Saros. I want no part of Markstrom or Ullmark if 10A is involved unless something else is coming back with them that's rather significant. I also don't really think Markstrom is very good anymore and Ullmark has benefited from the team around him. Neither will age well with respect to their contract. Saros has a better chance to be a quality goaltender for more years of a new deal and his cost to acquire will be higher. This is a tricky spot, I don't necessarily want to "big game hunt" for a goalie especially at the cost of an already pretty empty prospect pool.

Ullmark was good in Buffalo too. We should be more concerned about his age/new contract/injury history/past usage.

Markstrom is older, but his contract (which maybe the cheapest soon) only lasts two seasons and he should be less expensive to get. The Devils do have some solid goalie prospects. Schmid, Daws, Poulter, and Malek.

Saros biggest risk will be his age when he needs a new contract, how his age effects his playing style and the cost of the new contract.

Others: Gibson, Bennington, Talbot.

There is an argument that Markstrom might be the least risky, because Ullmark and Saros also carry the added risk of not resigning.

 

[Bleedred]

Ullmark was good in Buffalo too. We should be more concerned about his age/new contract/injury history/past usage.

Markstrom is older, but his contract (which maybe the cheapest soon) only lasts two seasons and he should be less expensive to get. The Devils do have some solid goalie prospects. Schmid, Daws, Poulter, and Malek.

Saros biggest risk will be his age when he needs a new contract, how his age effects his playing style and the cost of the new contract.

Others: Gibson, Bennington, Talbot.

There is an argument that Markstrom might be the least risky, because Ullmark and Saros also carry the added risk of not resigning.

Gibson sucks and his contract sucks even more. We better not pick him up. I forgot this name even existed for the last month or more. He’s a washed up sack of shit. We may as well just trade for the last year of his former goalie partner in Carolina (like that one Twitter guy suggested the other day that had all these proposals that someone posted here) rather than take on 3 more years of him. Not to mention at almost double the money.

Binnington also doesn’t have a good contract.

Talbot is old and washed up. LA made him look pretty decent last year, though most of that was from the first few months of the season. He was collapsing from like January (or maybe even as far back as December) through the end of the year. He’s gonna be 37 this offseason.

The sad thing is that I’m not convinced Jake Allen is actually worse than Gibson or Talbot. Binnington is probably better, but two of his last three years have been kind of bad and one of those years he was significantly outplayed by a Vanecek caliber goalie in Husso behind the same team.

 

[forceten]

Kahkonen played well enough that a true tandem with Allen seems as good as Markstrom or one of the other second tier goalies being discussed, especially if Keefe improves the defensive system like he did with a beer league defense in Toronto. Even Vanacek and Schmid would have higher SV% with a better defensive system last year.

Not trading Mercer, 10OA, Casey. Absurd.

 

[NJDevs26]

Did he bank on this or were teams holding onto their goaltenders last summer

Yeah Fitz was pretty transparent to a fault about not wanting Schmid to be the full time backup, maybe that lack of a vote of confidence didn’t help him.

 

[Bleedred]

Even Vanacek and Schmid would have higher SV% with a better defensive system last year.

Their expected save percentages were about .897% and Vanecek played to an .890% over a very large number of games. He was almost as bad as you can get, but Jon Gillies in 2022 was probably as bad as you can get. He played to an .885% on an expected .905%. Louis Domingue also had similar numbers here in 2019-2020.

I think Vanecek was just done here by last year’s playoffs.

I don’t blame anybody for not knowing that. I didn’t know that. But I think that’s certainly how it went.

He may have played better on the worst team in the league last year than he did here. He was mentally cooked here after what happened last playoffs. Especially with us coming back to win the series after he was benched. I don’t think he was coming back from that.

 

[My3Sons]

Their expected save percentages were about .897% and Vanecek played to an .890% over a very large number of games. He was almost as bad as you can get, but Jon Gillies in 2022 was probably as bad as you can get. He played to an .885% on an expected .905%. Louis Domingue also had similar numbers here in 2019-2020.

I think Vanecek was just done here by last year’s playoffs.

I don’t blame anybody for not knowing that. I didn’t know that. But I think that’s certainly how it went.

He may have played better on the worst team in the league last year than he did here. He was mentally cooked here after what happened last playoffs. Especially with us coming back to win the series after he was benched. I don’t think he was coming back from that.

So that disclosure by Vitek that he needed surgery at the end of the season suggests to me that he was asked to start games and play hurt. Just like Blackwood. That’s a bit of a concerning thing in my view.

 

[NJDevs26]

So that disclosure by Vitek that he needed surgery at the end of the season suggests to me that he was asked to start games and play hurt. Just like Blackwood. That’s a bit of a concerning thing in my view.

I seriously doubt he was hurt all year although it wouldn’t shock me to find out he was, there’s no evidence he had that injury while playing his best game of the season then it suddenly became too much. It’s more likely he did get hurt in practice after that.

 

[Bleedred]

So that disclosure by Vitek that he needed surgery at the end of the season suggests to me that he was asked to start games and play hurt. Just like Blackwood. That’s a bit of a concerning thing in my view.

He looked bad from game 2 through the end. Well, the last game he played was his best. Literally his two best games of the year were his first and his last.

I don’t buy it. He was hurt all year? I don’t buy it.

 

[forceten]

My point wasn’t that Vanacek was going to be good, my point was a better defensive system gets him a few points on SV%, but he’s still be below what we need. It was more to acknowledge that decent keepers like Allen and Kahkonen might be fine behind Keefe and a healthy defense corps

 

[My3Sons]

He looked bad from game 2 through the end. Well, the last game he played was his best. Literally his two best games of the year were his first and his last.

I don’t buy it. He was hurt all year? I don’t buy it.

I’m not saying he was hurt all year. I’m just saying i think he was hurt at some point and they played him anyway to predictable results. And it wouldn’t be the first time they ran a hurt goalie out there under the current administration. My comment wasn’t to say Vitek is good or could have been rehabbed with NJ. I agree with you he needed a fresh start. But playing goalies that are still somewhat hurt is not the same as a skater that can be hidden to some extent. Point being I don’t trust this management group to fix the goaltending because I’m not convinced they understand it including Brodeur.

 

[JimEIV]

To Calgary: Alex Holtz, Akira Schmid, Seamus Casey and a 2025 conditional second-round pick (upgrades to a first-round pick if the Devils make the second round of the playoffs in 2025)

To New Jersey: Jacob Markström (50 percent retained), Andrei Kuzmenko and a 2025 third-round pick.

I like that trade i stumbled on ...

'Who Says No?' mailbag: Where will top NHL trade candidates land?

Let's evaluate your trade proposals for Jacob Markström, Pierre-Luc Dubois, Juuse Saros and more.

www.nytimes.com

Yes or no?

No. Way too much for a 35 year old goaltender.

That's a "win now" move not a we are currently a bottom 10 team, looking to playoffs for 2nd time in 7 years type of move.

 

[JimEIV]

So that disclosure by Vitek that he needed surgery at the end of the season suggests to me that he was asked to start games and play hurt. Just like Blackwood. That’s a bit of a concerning thing in my view.

Jack and Meier were also playing hurt at various points of this season as was Siegenthaler...

Seems more than a coincidence, looks more like a trend

 

[My3Sons]

Jack and Meier were also playing hurt at various points of this season as was Siegenthaler...

Seems more than a coincidence, looks more like a trend

I know that different players handle it differently but yeah. I don’t like rolling hurt guys out there as a regular thing. The idea that “he can’t make it worse” is flawed. Inflammation and pain can lead to overcompensating and at a minimum will severely degrade the speed and explosion and strength these guys need to use. Again if I was the coach there would be no dumbassery. This stuff isn’t complicated.

 

[JimEIV]

I know that different players handle it differently but yeah. I don’t like rolling hurt guys out there as a regular thing. The idea that “he can’t make it worse” is flawed. Inflammation and pain can lead to overcompensating and at a minimum will severely degrade the speed and explosion and strength these guys need to use. Again if I was the coach there would be no dumbassery. This stuff isn’t complicated.

I agree with you but I think maybe it has to be viewed against the backdrop of all the injuries we had.

I think players and staff were a little more willing to let guys play slightly injured because they were so short handed with so many injuries.

I think the players get into the mindset that they are letting their team down if they sit out...when they could've went with a little discomfort.

And the problem compounds itself with a young defense and all the depth we lost from 23.

 

[My3Sons]

I agree with you but I think maybe it has to be viewed against the backdrop of all the injuries we had.

I think players and staff were a little more willing to let guys play slightly injured because they were so short handed with so many injuries.

I think the players get into the mindset that they are letting their team down if they sit out...when they could've went with a little discomfort.

And the problem compounds itself with a young defense and all the depth we lost from 23.

That all makes sense but at some point you have to protect your investments. I understand the need to be competitive even in a bad season. You need butts in seats and season ticket renewals but playing Jack when they knew he needed surgery? I’m sure he was ok with it but where are the grownups in the room? If they had some prospects at forward it wouldn’t have been as bad but I’m sure seeing guys like Tierney and Wilman and Nosek (who himself had a significant injury) pushed them to send out Jack and Bratt and Timo when the better move would have been to rest them.

 

[JimEIV]

That all makes sense but at some point you have to protect your investments. I understand the need to be competitive even in a bad season. You need butts in seats and season ticket renewals but playing Jack when they knew he needed surgery? I’m sure he was ok with it but where are the grownups in the room? If they had some prospects at forward it wouldn’t have been as bad but I’m sure seeing guys like Tierney and Wilman and Nosek (who himself had a significant injury) pushed them to send out Jack and Bratt and Timo when the better move would have been to rest them.

Again I am in complete agreement... shutting some of these guys down would've been the smarter move...

But you shutdown Vitek with only Schmid or Daws available or you shutdown Jack in January you are basically waving the white flag on the season. That's got to be a last resort type of move.

 

[Rhodes 81]

I don't think it takes that much imagination to think Vitek may not have been right during the season where posted the worst save% of his career by 18 points and then needed mysterious surgery.

Players play through injuries all the time but it's worse for goalies to do it because the margins are so fine between great and disaster. If we've forced multiple goalies to do it, it's because we haven't had any other choice. This position has just been a curse since Schneider's hips exploded.

I get the temptation to try to solve it at all costs because of that, but I worry it may just be too results oriented at this point.

 

[Billdo]

So that disclosure by Vitek that he needed surgery at the end of the season suggests to me that he was asked to start games and play hurt. Just like Blackwood. That’s a bit of a concerning thing in my view.

It's concerning that our players have routinely played hurt which then changed to being injured. You can play hurt, but when these guys do and it's turns into injuries the medical staff needs to be looked at. Are these guys needing to be saved from themselves and told to sit? Or is the organization pressuring them to continue even though they probably shouldn't?

 

[forceten]

Isles only have a few days to sign 2020 3rd rounder Alex Ljungkrantz. Any interest ?

 

[JimEIV]

It's concerning that our players have routinely played hurt which then changed to being injured. You can play hurt, but when these guys do and it's turns into injuries the medical staff needs to be looked at. Are these guys needing to be saved from themselves and told to sit? Or is the organization pressuring them to continue even though they probably shouldn't?

Probably a little bit of both.

 

[Bleedred]

It shouldn't cost the 10th overall for Markstrom.

My interpretation is that the relationship between Markstrom and Calgary is pretty strained, possibly because of Conroy holding out to squeeze the most he could out of the return.

We'll probably get him for something reasonable. Unless we go after someone else.

I'm not sold on anybody with Rogalski still being here. Ya see, I don't think the people that run the goalie department here exactly know what the hell it is they're doing. And the fact that all indications are that we're heading into year 5 of Rogalski and him not being GANKED just really makes me even more firm in that belief.

 

[beekay414]

Rogalski sucks

 

[Comparison Ford]

Arvidsson looks to be headed to UFA. He's a good forechecker, shows tenacity, and could pair with Nico to shutdown lines late in games.

i would love arvidsson, small player but tenacious