Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part I

[Devils731]

Two questions —

1. who would people be willing to trade #10 for? 3 different buckets: (1) straight up, (2) use it as part of a larger package (ie #10 + Mercer for Tkachuk) or (3) use it and get players and picks back (#10 for Markstrom and Vancouver 1st)

2. There’s a video that plays right before puck drop at the rock with a dude with white hair in a black ski cap (kinda looks like Sean Connery) saying something that sounds like “let’s go”. Anybody know what that’s from and what he’s saying? I was joking around about it with someone the other day and neither of us know what that’s actually from

1) I’d only be interested in 1 or 2, I don’t want to break down the value of the pick into smaller multiple pieces.

2) I think you’re referring to this, which is Sean Connery in a movie called “The Rock”

 

[Nubmer6]

1) I’d only be interested in 1 or 2, I don’t want to break down the value of the pick into smaller multiple pieces.

2) I think you’re referring to this, which is Sean Connery in a movie called “The Rock”

Funny thing... I was in an elevator with Sean Connery once (I used to work at the Tribeca Film Center). Didn't initially recognize him (I'm horrible at that). I look over and see him, an go "aren't you... ". He cuts me off, nodding his head, and in his Sean Connery accent goes "The Rock".

 

[Ripshot 43]

Funny thing... I was in an elevator with Sean Connery once (I used to work at the Tribeca Film Center). Didn't initially recognize him (I'm horrible at that). I look over and see him, an go "aren't you... ". He cuts me off, nodding his head, and in his Sean Connery accent goes "The Rock".

The Rock was definitely my generation but I would’ve wanted to say.. I was thinking… Bond, James Bond.

 

[Guadana]

Two questions —

1. who would people be willing to trade #10 for? 3 different buckets: (1) straight up, (2) use it as part of a larger package (ie #10 + Mercer for Tkachuk) or (3) use it and get players and picks back (#10 for Markstrom and Vancouver 1st)

2. There’s a video that plays right before puck drop at the rock with a dude with white hair in a black ski cap (kinda looks like Sean Connery) saying something that sounds like “let’s go”. Anybody know what that’s from and what he’s saying? I was joking around about it with someone the other day and neither of us know what that’s actually from

10OA for full deal of Gibson one for one. Lets go, Fitz! I believe Fleury can give us a lot of experience and stability! Lets go!

Tkachuk will not be traded for 10OA. I dont believe in a good trade for 10OA. Still would be great for young-ish (25-26 yo) solid LHD top 4 defenseman but Im not so sure. Talent on ELC is a huge piece to help this team win games. Goalies trades are stupid - no one will sell Wallstedt, Swayman or Askarov, any other trades are bad, Saros too(8mil for aging small goalie isnt great deal). Trades for forwards are mostly not good. Closest history is pretty clearly showing it. But I would be happy if we can trade second line center who can produce 55-60+ points by his own. Imagine if wild are ready to trade Rossi or even Ek(for 10OA + Holtz) somewhy, at least I would listen or make a trade without a doubt in case of Ek(unrealistic dream scenario).

 

[BostonDevil]

What years?

All of Ullmark’s seasons in Buffalo:
View attachment 875788

His last three seasons in Buffalo:
View attachment 875794

His last two seasons in Buffalo:
View attachment 875791

He was always better on a worse team.

Now Ullmark isn’t a guy I necessarily feel great about getting because
1) He’s always played in a tandem but will have to paid like a work horse.
2) The Vezina season sticks out as an outlier but he still has to be paid more as an UFA because it.

But he was very good goalie in Buffalo, he was hampered by injuries at times and hampered by being a Sabre.

In 2020-21 we were 4-3-1 vs Buffalo, we only lost to them when Ullmark was healthy. (They were pretty awful that season.)

Just used 18/19 and 19/20 for Ullmark where he started his most games in Buffalo (34) and compared them woth Vitek for 20/21 (36) and 21/22 (39) in Washington.

Vitek averaged a .908 in those years
Ullmark averaged a .910 in those years

Both quirky, strange, emotional guys. Ullmark probably already declined a trade here and said he wants to stay in Boston. I don't want a sad Ullmark here. (someone post the picture of Squidward Ullmark, looking out at Zacha and Boqvist)

Never carried the load
Wasn't a playoff performer
Doesn't want to leave Boston
Will cost to more to get him
Will cost more to re-sign him
Will probably have to give longer contract

Sure he could come here and win 6 Vazinas and 7 Conn Smythes during his 8 year contract with us (7M AAV) but I see too many red flags. Can easily see him as a Vitek/Crawford hybrid who gets jittery after being asked to be THE GUY and shrinks into a shell then retires back to Sweden after 3 seasons after we eat 50% of the rest of his salary in a cap dump to whoever ends up being the new Arizona (hopefully that's Boston).

If we're going to spend, I like Saros 100x better and if we're not, going cheap with Markstrom makes way more sense to me.

 

[Davegarri]

I'm at the point where it's Saros or nothing for me. I don't trust any of these other goalies long term and I don't want to give up a ton of assets for a goalie that's going to suck from old age after 2 seasons.

 

[Ripshot 43]

I'm at the point where it's Saros or nothing for me. I don't trust any of these other goalies long term and I don't want to give up a ton of assets for a goalie that's going to suck from old age after 2 seasons.

I’d be willing to offer a pretty enticing package for Askarov before he gets fully exposed to the NHL this season. Nashville has no reason to want to give him up but they are nearing that time to decide on removing Saros or signing him and not needing to have a 21 year old potential stud backup.

 

[Its Always Sundstrom]

Askarov and a 2nd for #10 or Markstrom for cheap. I don’t trust Markstrom to stay healthy enough or actually play well enough to help out.

I think this is where hiring someone like Keefe with help in making a decision with Fitz and the analytics team. If Keefe makes a case for his system, player deployment and how it will help guarding the net maybe Fitz doesn’t feel the need to spend a lot of assets on the “big game” crap that’s available.

 

[Guttersniped]

Just used 18/19 and 19/20 for Ullmark where he started his most games in Buffalo (34) and compared them woth Vitek for 20/21 (36) and 21/22 (39) in Washington.

Vitek averaged a .908 in those years
Ullmark averaged a .910 in those years

Both quirky, strange, emotional guys. Ullmark probably already declined a trade here and said he wants to stay in Boston. I don't want a sad Ullmark here. (someone post the picture of Squidward Ullmark, looking out at Zacha and Boqvist)

Never carried the load
Wasn't a playoff performer
Doesn't want to leave Boston
Will cost to more to get him
Will cost more to re-sign him
Will probably have to give longer contract

Sure he could come here and win 6 Vazinas and 7 Conn Smythes during his 8 year contract with us (7M AAV) but I see too many red flags. Can easily see him as a Vitek/Crawford hybrid who gets jittery after being asked to be THE GUY and shrinks into a shell then retires back to Sweden after 3 seasons after we eat 50% of the rest of his salary in a cap dump to whoever ends up being the new Arizona (hopefully that's Boston).

If we're going to spend, I like Saros 100x better and if we're not, going cheap with Markstrom makes way more sense to me.

2018-19 was his worst season in Buffalo, so sure, if isolate that more his numbers go down.

I'm not arguing against you not wanting him but he’s better than Vanecek. He stood out in Buffalo and I thought he was an excellent signing by Boston.

I don’t see him “shrinking” from being asked to be the guy, he literally can’t play more games. He broke down after playing 49 games in his Vezina season. Workhorse goalies who can play 60 NHL games are actually rare.

So his next contract is problematic. (I don’t like what Saros’ next contact will likely be either but at least he’s a workhorse.)

I lean towards Markstrom for less and then figuring it out, but who knows who we can actually get and which goalies already blocked trades to NJ.

 

[Ripshot 43]

Askarov and a 2nd for #10 or Markstrom for cheap. I don’t trust Markstrom to stay healthy enough or actually play well enough to help out.

I think this is where hiring someone like Keefe with help in making a decision with Fitz and the analytics team. If Keefe makes a case for his system, player deployment and how it will help guarding the net maybe Fitz doesn’t feel the need to spend a lot of assets on the “big game” crap that’s available.

I think Askarov is one of the few goalies that would cost more than the #10. He was an 11th overall pick and basically just got 4 years of development and is ready to step into the nhl in some capacity next year.

 

[Cheddabombs]

Askarov and a 2nd for #10 or Markstrom for cheap. I don’t trust Markstrom to stay healthy enough or actually play well enough to help out.

I think this is where hiring someone like Keefe with help in making a decision with Fitz and the analytics team. If Keefe makes a case for his system, player deployment and how it will help guarding the net maybe Fitz doesn’t feel the need to spend a lot of assets on the “big game” crap that’s available.

I'd rather get someone that's proven since we should be competing now. But I think Askarov is so good that he's an exception to that, and I'd be willing to add more to that package to get him.

 

[Forge]

I'm at the point where it's Saros or nothing for me. I don't trust any of these other goalies long term and I don't want to give up a ton of assets for a goalie that's going to suck from old age after 2 seasons.

How much do you trust Saros on a 7 year extension is probably the question that'll be asked. Saros in particular may be a scary long term investment given that athleticism will erode

 

[Lou Bloom]

I still like the idea of calling up Florida about Spencer Knight. He's only 23 and was an elite college goalie who still has a save percentage of .906% in the NHL in 57 games all prior to turning 22. Florida might want to create cap space to re-sign Reinhart, Montour and Lundell + some of their depth pieces and Knight's $4.5M would be the easiest money to free up.

 

[Triumph]

I still like the idea of calling up Florida about Spencer Knight. He's only 23 and was an elite college goalie who still has a save percentage of .906% in the NHL in 57 games all prior to turning 22. Florida might want to create cap space to re-sign Reinhart, Montour and Lundell + some of their depth pieces and Knight's $4.5M would be the easiest money to free up.

I think Knight will be headed for a buyout and they will just wash their hands of him. It's $750k for the next 4 years. There are certainly places he could go, I do not think New Jersey is one of them. I guess he could be traded to Chicago or something, but most teams will require 50% retention and the buyout is just cheaper in terms of cap hit and total financial outlay.

 

[Forge]

I still like the idea of calling up Florida about Spencer Knight. He's only 23 and was an elite college goalie who still has a save percentage of .906% in the NHL in 57 games all prior to turning 22. Florida might want to create cap space to re-sign Reinhart, Montour and Lundell + some of their depth pieces and Knight's $4.5M would be the easiest money to free up.

I would have liked to have done that before they committed to Allen as the secondary piece. Just didn't think it's possible now. Think Knight would have had to be the secondary goalie.

 

[devilsblood]

I still like the idea of calling up Florida about Spencer Knight. He's only 23 and was an elite college goalie who still has a save percentage of .906% in the NHL in 57 games all prior to turning 22. Florida might want to create cap space to re-sign Reinhart, Montour and Lundell + some of their depth pieces and Knight's $4.5M would be the easiest money to free up.

IMO it's too much of a question mark for a team that desperately needs stability at the position.

I think he'd be a great risk reward option for some team, just don't think NJ is that team.

 

[Lou Bloom]

I think Knight will be headed for a buyout and they will just wash their hands of him. It's $750k for the next 4 years. There are certainly places he could go, I do not think New Jersey is one of them. I guess he could be traded to Chicago or something, but most teams will require 50% retention and the buyout is just cheaper in terms of cap hit and total financial outlay.

Knight's value is down but I don't think it's that down. There's a dearth of goaltending around the league, a 23 year old, former 13th overall pick with his college success and decent NHL numbers will still have value even with the off ice concerns.

I would have liked to have done that before they committed to Allen as the secondary piece. Just didn't think it's possible now. Think Knight would have had to be the secondary goalie.

IMO it's too much of a question mark for a team that desperately needs stability at the position.

I think he'd be a great risk reward option for some team, just don't think NJ is that team.

Outside of acquiring Saros or Ullmark any goaltender the Devils could acquire this offseason will have question marks and risks attached to them (and even Saros and Ullmark will have risks as far as future contracts are concerned). Markstrom will be 35, The entire FA class is either backups or inconsistent starters. And unlike many of those FAs or Trade options Spencer Knight has the potential to solve the position for a decade while also being cheap to acquire in terms of assets.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

I'd roll the dice on Knight if I were Chicago or San Jose if the acquisition cost was future considerations for sure. NJ it would be a ballsy trade, but the options might be so unattractive a high variance trade like that would be the best option.

 

[Forge]

Outside of acquiring Saros or Ullmark any goaltender the Devils could acquire this offseason will have question marks and risks attached to them (and even Saros and Ullmark will have risks as far as future contracts are concerned). Markstrom will be 35, The entire FA class is either backups or inconsistent starters. And unlike many of those FAs or Trade options Spencer Knight has the potential to solve the position for a decade while also being cheap to acquire in terms of assets.

Different categories of risk, I imagine. And certainly different optics for the moves.

Fitz clearly doesn't have the same concern about age. I mean, if his goalie moves have told us anything, they have told us that.

I think he's definitely going to go with a guy that has a history of success in the league and is capable of carrying a workload. For as good as Spencer Knight looked in the AHL last year for a while, he played 0 NHL games. I simply do not think that Fitzgerald is going to possibly entrust his job to that.

 

[Lou Bloom]

Different categories of risk, I imagine. And certainly different optics for the moves.

Fitz clearly doesn't have the same concern about age. I mean, if his goalie moves have told us anything, they have told us that.

I think he's definitely going to go with a guy that has a history of success in the league and is capable of carrying a workload. For as good as Spencer Knight looked in the AHL last year for a while, he played 0 NHL games. I simply do not think that Fitzgerald is going to possibly entrust his job to that.

If a GM cares more about optics than making the best move for a team (not saying that Spencer Knight is the best move, just speaking hypothetically) then that's a poor reflection on the GM. The Panthers have built out much of their roster by acquiring players that were underperformers (Montour, Bennett) or unproven players (Verhaeghe, Forsling), if you're only answer to a problem is to acquire already proven players than you're going to constantly be paying top dollar, or higher end trade assets and that model is not easily sustainable in a salary cap league.

 

[Forge]

If a GM cares more about optics than making the best move for a team (not saying that Spencer Knight is the best move, just speaking hypothetically) then that's a poor reflection on the GM. The Panthers have built out much of their roster by acquiring players that were underperformers (Montour, Bennett) or unproven players (Verhaeghe, Forsling), if you're only answer to a problem is to acquire already proven players than you're going to constantly be paying top dollar, or higher end trade assets and that model is not easily sustainable in a salary cap league.

That man has a job to worry about

 

[Lou Bloom]

That man has a job to worry about

Which his success is determined by how well the team does on the ice, not the optics of the moves he makes.

 

[Forge]

Which his success is determined by how well the team does on the ice, not the optics of the moves he makes.

It can certainly play a role. May not based on how bad the results are.

But his job being at risk almost certainly means you're not likely relying on a Spencer Knight to save it

At least that's my opinion of where Fitz likely stands

 

[HoliksGhost]

For perspective, Bobrowski is 35 right now. IMO he’s the number 1 or 2 goalie throughout these entire playoffs

 

[Lou Bloom]

It can certainly play a role. May not based on how bad the results are.

But his job being at risk almost certainly means you're not likely relying on a Spencer Knight to save it

That just seems like a narrow minded view, Are any of the UFAs available this offseason reliable to save it? Is a 35 year old Markstrom reliable to save it (especially with a higher AAV and more valuable trade assets, which means less wiggle room to improve other areas of the team)? What if Saros or Ullmark are too expensive in terms of trade assets?

On some level you're taking risks when it comes to goaltending due to low supply vs high demand, so my question is why not go with a young goalie with potential, who'll also be cheap to acquire in terms of trade assets and use your assets (Cap space + Trade Assets) to focus on improving the skater group? Not to mention the potential that Knight figuring it out would mean solving the goalie position for potentially the next decade.