Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

[Guttersniped]

Debrincat for Holtz and 2nd overall

 

[Unknown Caller]

Trading Holtz is just not a good idea. He is our best forward prospect and will be a goal scoring machine for us.

I would move him in the right deal. The production is there at lower levels, but I'm still not convinced he'll become anything more than a Mike Hoffman. It would have to be for a considerable piece back that helps the Devils win now (see Fiala).

 

[RangerDoggo]

Holtz has cement skates.

 

[tailfins]

I won't dismiss that in any way...It is a valid concern.

To your point of context, as I understand it he was a 3rd liner this season. Without making excuses, what would you expect any 3rd liner to produce on team that has a leading scorer of 39 points in 56 games?

If your team leader is .696 PPG is .322 PPG from a 3rd liner out of line? I don't think so?

That's fine. he had a good season relative to his team. do you pick that guy #2OA?

Barzal led the Islanders with 59 points in 73 games. 0.8 pts PPG. Wahlstrom had 24 in 73. 0.33 PPG. Would anyone label Wahlstrom as one of the top ten 21 year olds in the NHL?

To me, Slaf seems like a very good player. If he pans out, he could be amazing. But, weak drafts often carry a lot of risk. 2012 is a good example - none of the top 4 really panned out.

To use a baseball metaphor: do the Devils need to hit a home run on this pick? Or should they just look to get on base / avoid striking out?

 

[Unknown Caller]

Holtz has cement skates.

I don't think a lot of his skills translate, but that's personal evaluation that most people would disagree with. To me he's just a very uninspiring player in general outside of the occasions where he gets the puck in high danger spaces. He's a nice piece who will be an NHL player, but he's not in the untouchable category for me.

 

[tailfins]

You just listed two kids in the NHL who lack production, which is confusing.

True. But those kids

a) had much more production prior to being drafted (so why do you think Slaf will some how eclipse what those kids are doing); and

b) can at least be judged in an NHL environment

I feel it's safer to project improvement for kids who are in the NHL where we can see their microstats and where we can evaluate their IQ / motor.

Vs kids who haven't produced in lesser leagues, who have to move to North America, and who have to adjust to smaller rinks / NHL pace.

 

[devilsblood]

Holtz has cement skates.

Ya, not great size, and meh skating is a bad combo.

Ty Smith suffers from the same.

 

[Devils731]

True. But those kids

a) had much more production prior to being drafted (so why do you think Slaf will some how eclipse what those kids are doing); and

b) can at least be judged in an NHL environment

I feel it's safer to project improvement for kids who are in the NHL where we can see their microstats and where we can evaluate their IQ / motor.

Vs kids who haven't produced in lesser leagues, who have to move to North America, and who have to adjust to smaller rinks / NHL pace.

Production for guys playing in Men’s European leagues is so dependent on role and ice time that raw point totals can be deceiving at times.

Just recently, the 2020 draft may be a good example of lack of overseas production not being the strongest indicator of NHL success. The strong North American producers at 1-2 have fallen a little behind some of the guys who didn’t have big on-ice roles overseas.

———-

Also, a guy with a big body, who forechecks well, and can protect the puck well probably would benefit from a smaller rink size.

 

[Normal Devil]

I don't think a lot of his skills translate, but that's personal evaluation that most people would disagree with. To me he's just a very uninspiring player in general outside of the occasions where he gets the puck in high danger spaces. He's a nice piece who will be an NHL player, but he's not in the untouchable category for me.

If the Devils have some doubt they are in a position to deal him away now that they landed the #2 pick and can add a top winger. Maybe Holtz is a viable trade option in a deal for a guy like Fiala.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

It would take the worst GM in the history of sports to trade the second overall pick for Spencer Knight and the rights to Mason Marchment.

That depends on how you view Spencer Knight. If you view him as a franchise goalie like I do, then it ain't so bad!

 

[JimEIV]

Why not get Nolan Patrick while we're at it?

This post gives me a migraine

 

[glenwo2]

Holtz has cement skates.

I don't think a lot of his skills translate, but that's personal evaluation that most people would disagree with. To me he's just a very uninspiring player in general outside of the occasions where he gets the puck in high danger spaces. He's a nice piece who will be an NHL player, but he's not in the untouchable category for me.

So we're not even going to give him a chance on this team and just deal him away because...reasons, eh?

 

[Unknown Caller]

So we're not even going to give him a chance on this team and just deal him away because...reasons, eh?

Not a single person said not to "give him a chance on this team." He's just not an untouchable player if the right opportunity presents itself to improve the team immediately.

Given that you've been complaining about missing the playoffs recently, I would think you'd be on board with an option to improve the team in the immediate future. If Holtz is part of the package for the right player, I would absolutely be willing to move him.

 

[glenwo2]

Not a single person said not to "give him a chance on this team." He's just not an untouchable player if the right opportunity presents itself to improve the team immediately.

Given that you've been complaining about missing the playoffs recently, I would think you'd be on board with an option to improve the team in the immediate future. If Holtz is part of the package for the right player, I would absolutely be willing to move him.

Well here's the question for you then :

What package (involving Holtz), in your honest opinion, could the Devils realistically do to improve the team?

Trade him for Fiala or something?

 

[Unknown Caller]

Well here's the question for you then :

What package (involving Holtz), in your honest opinion, could the Devils realistically do to improve the team?

Trade him for Fiala or something?

Sure, I would definitely be willing to include Holtz in a Fiala trade. I don't know who else will be made available but it would have to be a no-brainer top line player that fits the Devils timeline like that.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Well here's the question for you then :

What package (involving Holtz), in your honest opinion, could the Devils realistically do to improve the team?

Trade him for Fiala or something?

Holtz straight up for a time machine which could take us back to 1993, where we could grab 21 year old Marty Brodeur and bring him back to the present.

 

[glenwo2]

Holtz straight up for a time machine which could take us back to 1993, where we could grab 21 year old Marty Brodeur and bring him back to the present.

But the Calgary GM back then catches wind of our plan, and switches Marty with Trevor Kidd instead.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

I'm going to force this trade into reality:

Alex Holtz and Pavel Zacha to Minnesota
Kevin Fiala and 2022 3rd round pick to New Jersey

 

[Guttersniped]

I'm going to force this trade into reality:

Alex Holtz and Pavel Zacha to Minnesota
Kevin Fiala and 2022 3rd round pick to New Jersey

The Wild wouldn’t include a pick to us and I’m guessing they don’t want to spend +3m to pay Zacha. (They would be moving Fiala for cap space.)

 

[RSeen]

Why in the world are we trying to trade Holtz after we've already invested 2 years into his development and he is NHL ready? Trading a draft pick is one thing, but he should be NHL ready next year. He is coming off a productive year as well so this makes no sense.

Keep Holtz and our 2nd pick. We have the opportunity to have an elite team in a few years with having all this young talent on the roster but several potential players on ELC's. Make the right short-term additions, and this team can be elite.

 

[Guttersniped]

Ya, not great size, and meh skating is a bad combo.

Ty Smith suffers from the same.

Holtz is 6’0” and 192 at age 20, I don’t see his size as a problem for a scoring winger.

 

[Darkauron]

Why in the world are we trying to trade Holtz after we've already invested 2 years into his development and he is NHL ready? Trading a draft pick is one thing, but he should be NHL ready next year. He is coming off a productive year as well so this makes no sense.

Keep Holtz and our 2nd pick. We have the opportunity to have an elite team in a few years with having all this young talent on the roster but several potential players on ELC's. Make the right short-term additions, and this team can be elite.

Cause win now!!!!!!!

 

[Saugus]

Wait, are there seriously people who want to trade the pick? I think we would have to be totally blown away by an offer, and we won't be.

I think we should take Slafkovsky and not think about it too hard. We've lucked into being able to select a talent that we didn't think would be available at our original slot. No way we should pass that up.

 

[Comparison Ford]

i know this has prob been discussed, but is anyone thinking there could be a deal around Quinn Hughes and the 2nd overall?

 

[My3Sons]

i know this has prob been discussed, but is anyone thinking there could be a deal around Quinn Hughes and the 2nd overall?

Ugh. Please no. Stop. You are an excellent poster and must know that this path only leads to miserable exchanges with Vancouver fans who then suggest their first and a prospect for NJ to send Jack to Vancouver.