Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

[Setec Astronomy]

Hope for a first round exit from Calgary and trade our first for Matthew Tkachuk.

 

[devilsblood]

And so here is the question for the people advocating for dealing an ELC or top 6 pick for Fiala - is that enough to build a true cup contender? I don’t believe so but at least this a more realistic take than “don’t worry about the cap”.

Ya, that is the question, and Toronto, a team that has never won a playoff round, might not be the best example for building a top heavy team.

(Potentially opening myself for some criticism looking ahead).

 

[Captain3rdLine]

And so here is the question for the people advocating for dealing an ELC or top 6 pick for Fiala - is that enough to build a true cup contender? I don’t believe so but at least this a more realistic take than “don’t worry about the cap”.

I don’t think it’s a don’t worry about the cap. More of a we can probably afford it if his contract isn’t too big and he’s a really good player, who would make our offense much better and come in to next season as our best offensive forward. Would give us a great LW punch with Bratt alongside our top Center punch.

Imagine this:
Fiala Hughes
Bratt Hischier

Makes me salivate. And we probably can afford it if the price is reasonable.

Ya, that is the question, and Toronto, a team that has never won a playoff round, might not be the best example for building a top heavy team.

(Potentially opening myself for some criticism looking ahead).

Definitely opening yourself up for some criticism ahead. They’re also one of the best teams in the league and while they take a lot of flack 90% of fans would absolutely love to have a team like Toronto has and core group as top heavy as they are.

 

[NJDfan86]

I don’t think it’s a don’t worry about the cap. More of a we can probably afford it if his contract isn’t too big and he’s a really good player, who would make our offense much better and come in to next season as our best offensive forward. Would give us a great LW punch with Bratt alongside our top Center punch.

Imagine this:
Fiala Hughes
Bratt Hischier

Makes me salivate. And we probably can afford it if the price is reasonable.

That’s great, those would be awesome lines. But as Triumph laid out - A deal for Fiala is likely your last big swing of the stick. Look at the team he is joining, and tell me do you see a Stanley Cup contender?

 

[devilsblood]

That’s great, those would be awesome lines. But as Triumph laid out - A deal for Fiala is likely your last big swing of the stick. Look at the team he is joining, and tell me do you see a Stanley Cup contender?

Ya Triumph does not account for defense at all. What does Sev's or his replacement cost? What about Graves? Are we letting him walk and going Sieg's, Hughes, OK/Bahl? Sounds dangerous.

Or goaltending, which is something I wouldn't mind fixing.

Definitely opening yourself up for some criticism ahead. They’re also one of the best teams in the league and while they take a lot of flack 90% of fans would absolutely love to have a team like Toronto has and core group as top heavy as they are.

Possibly, but also possible they remain a posterchild for not icing a salary cap top heavy lineup.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

That’s great, those would be awesome lines. But as Triumph laid out - A deal for Fiala is likely your last big swing of the stick. Look at the team he is joining, and tell me do you see a Stanley Cup contender?

Well they need to add more than him and still could. They probably can’t afford to spend 8 million on a forward in free agency but they would still be able to figure out the goalie situation which is the most important thing. And the resign Severson. I think after figuring out the goaltending, signing a really good winger is the second best thing we could do to improve this team.

 

[devilsblood]

Aight I'm off to the gym. I expect some worthwhile posts to respond to when I get back.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

That’s great, those would be awesome lines. But as Triumph laid out - A deal for Fiala is likely your last big swing of the stick. Look at the team he is joining, and tell me do you see a Stanley Cup contender?

One more big money acquisition added to the current organizational strength is definitely a team that can compete for a Cup relatively soon, if above average goaltending is added at some point.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Ya Triumph does not account for defense at all. What does Sev's or his replacement cost? What about Graves? Are we letting him walk and going Sieg's, Hughes, OK/Bahl? Sounds dangerous.

Or goaltending, which is something I wouldn't mind fixing.


Possibly, but also possible they remain a posterchild for not icing a salary cap top heavy lineup.

At this point I definitely think we’re letting Graves walk or even trading him before he gets there. I’m confident that we can be confident going into the 2023-24 season at LD with Siegenthaler, Hughes, Okhotiuk, Bahl, And Mukhammadullin. We’re more likely to have a surplus at LD than a big problem in a year or two from now. Even if 1 or 2 of those guys tank. Bahl already looked solid and Okhotiuk who I really like started well. They could outplay Graves next year. And then we have Hughes (who we hope can play a big role in year 1) and Mukhammadullin.
There’s also Ty Smith.

 

[Triumph]

Ya Triumph does not account for defense at all. What does Sev's or his replacement cost? What about Graves? Are we letting him walk and going Sieg's, Hughes, OK/Bahl? Sounds dangerous.

Or goaltending, which is something I wouldn't mind fixing.


Possibly, but also possible they remain a posterchild for not icing a salary cap top heavy lineup.

How did I not account for defense? All I said was the Devils can't afford anything else big. This is true. I'm not going to do all the math on the switches, what Siegenthaler might cost, etc. - the Devils can afford to add a big time forward and a goalie this off-season, but that's it, and they can't really afford big upgrades anywhere else on their roster without taking something away. But the ELCs they have and low-cost players are going to provide a lot of savings too. The Devils have $27M committed to 4 players in 2023-24, I have no worries at all about them figuring out how to put together a team with an addition of ~$7M at forward.

 

[NJDfan86]

Well they need to add more than him and still could. They probably can’t afford to spend 8 million on a forward in free agency but they would still be able to figure out the goalie situation which is the most important thing. And the resign Severson. I think after figuring out the goaltending, signing a really good winger is the second best thing we could do to improve this team.

Right, but as he explained (goalie excluded) Fiala is basically the last player you can really afford to spend on. At the current cap if you are paying around $40mil for 5 players (Dougie, Jack, Nico, Bratt, Fiala) that leaves you with an average of $2.5 mil per player to fill out your roster. Even if the cap were to rapidly expand to 90m that still only 3.25, and a rapidly expanding cap will also rapidly increase players salary.

You simply will not have a lot of room to add salary if you make the move for Fiala now, and your best chance at finding the cheap and good players are the same assets you are giving up to acquire him. So that is why I ask - do you see a true cup competitor if we add Fiala (and assume we get a reasonable goaltending fix) and no other impact players?

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Right, but as he explained (goalie excluded) Fiala is basically the last player you can really afford to spend on. At the current cap if you are paying around $40mil for 5 players (Dougie, Jack, Nico, Bratt, Fiala) that leaves you with an average of $2.5 mil per player to fill out your roster. Even if the cap were to rapidly expand to 90m that still only 3.25, and a rapidly expanding cap will also rapidly increase players salary.

You simply will not have a lot of room to add salary if you make the move for Fiala now, and your best chance at finding the cheap and good players are the same assets you are giving up to acquire him. So that is why I ask - do you see a true cup competitor if we add Fiala (and assume we get a reasonable goaltending fix) and no other impact players?

If we trade for Fiala then I think we may have all the true impact players necessary. There’s obviously gonna be depth stuff and filling guys in but I don’t think we’re gonna need to pay any big money to bring somebody else in any time soon. I think the time is now or soon for this type of move and I think this type of move may be necessary. We have the high-end forwards necessary with lots of young players pushing to make the NHL roster and more coming.

We have what should be a really good d-core with Hamilton, Hughes, Severson, Siegenthaler, as well as Bahl, Okhotiuk, and Mukhammadullin.

So, we realistically shouldn’t be paying more or at least much kore than 3 million for a 3rd pair dman or a bottom 6 forward and that is all I think we’ll still have to figure out. It will just be extensions to me some guys which I think we will still be able to afford. It isn’t necessarily gonna be easy but I don’t this would be putting into that tough of a spot where we can’t make moves going forward.

Probably just can’t make a big splashy acquisition anymore but I don’t think we’ll need another one.
Maybe there’s a better fit but Fiala is a damn good winger and can score.

 

[NJDfan86]

If we trade for Fiala then I think we may have all the true impact players necessary. There’s obviously gonna be depth stuff and filling guys in but I don’t think we’re gonna need to pay any big money to bring somebody else in any time soon. I think the time is now or soon for this type of move and I think this type of move may be necessary. We have the high-end forwards necessary with lots of young players pushing to make the NHL roster and more coming.

We have what should be a really good d-core with Hamilton, Hughes, Severson, Siegenthaler, as well as Bahl, Okhotiuk, and Mukhammadullin.

So, we realistically shouldn’t be paying more or at least much kore than 3 million for a 3rd pair dman or a bottom 6 forward and that is all I think we’ll still have to figure out. It will just be extensions to me some guys which I think we will still be able to afford. It isn’t necessarily gonna be easy but I don’t this would be putting into that tough of a spot where we can’t make moves going forward.

Probably just can’t make a big splashy acquisition anymore but I don’t think we’ll need another one.
Maybe there’s a better fit but Fiala is a damn good winger and can score.

Fair enough, I disagree on where the team is but I don’t disagree that Fiala is a great player.

I would personally let the current status quo (except the goalie) play out - draft your player in the top 6, see what Holtz looks like next year, hope Hughes makes an appearance, see how the growth from the other young players plays out - and then make the big move after next year.

 

[Eggtimer]

Graves probably isn’t coming back because we have two solid young dmen (Bahl and Okhotiuk) who look good and finished better than him as well as Luke Hughes and Mukhammadullin coming up. Graves was terrible the last half of the year.

We also have more than Subban coming off the books. We have 10.15 million tied up in Tatar, Zacha and Johnsson. 6.125 tied up in dead goaltenders in Schneider and Bernier. And a bit tied up in Butcher.


Well he’s a 30+ goal point per game guy. I guess he just isn’t big enough.

It’s not that he isn’t big enough , just if you had to opportunity to be picky and choosey , I guy like E Kane or Tkachuk would be preferred

 

[Captain3rdLine]

It’s not that he isn’t big enough , just if you had to opportunity to be picky and choosey , I guy like E Kane or Tkachuk would be preferred

You’re gonna have hard time getting support on Kane here and Tkachuk is just not gonna happen.

 

[RSeen]

Right, but as he explained (goalie excluded) Fiala is basically the last player you can really afford to spend on. At the current cap if you are paying around $40mil for 5 players (Dougie, Jack, Nico, Bratt, Fiala) that leaves you with an average of $2.5 mil per player to fill out your roster. Even if the cap were to rapidly expand to 90m that still only 3.25, and a rapidly expanding cap will also rapidly increase players salary.

You simply will not have a lot of room to add salary if you make the move for Fiala now, and your best chance at finding the cheap and good players are the same assets you are giving up to acquire him. So that is why I ask - do you see a true cup competitor if we add Fiala (and assume we get a reasonable goaltending fix) and no other impact players?

Good point, we do have to be careful with how much we commit to someone like Fiala. It is definitely beneficial to have Holtz and L. Hughes on ELC's for the next 3 years and Mercer for 2 more, but at some point with the long-term deals, it could cause issues. Especially when players like Severson, Siegs, Graves and Sharangovich require raises after next year.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Fair enough, I disagree on where the team is but I don’t disagree that Fiala is a great player.

I would personally let the current status quo (except the goalie) play out - draft your player at 6, see what Holtz looks like next year, hope Hughes makes an appearance, see how the growth from the other young players plays out - and then make the big move after next year.

Ya I get that and am fine if that’s what we do. I’m just not sure we’re gonna get many opportunities to get a player of Fiala’s caliber at his age. And it’s not like it’s because people think he’s gonna be ridiculously expensive. Minnesota can’t afford him because they have 12 million being taken up by buyouts next season. That’s a rare situation that someone may take advantage of.

It’s not like Meier who has a 10 million dollar qualifying offer.

 

[Eggtimer]

I’m not sold that he’s gonna be a top 6 winger let alone a top line winger like I think we need. I don’t think Holtz will be good enough even if he turns out. Winger really isn’t lower than Defensmen on the depth chart. We have Hamilton, Severson, Siegenthaler, Hughes, Graves, Smith, Okhotiuk. Bahl, Mukhammadullin, Walsh(eh). It’s just gonna be about resigning and figuring out who stays and who goes. We’re more likely than not gonna end up trading a dman or two. Other than finding a solid 3RD defense is not a big need at all.

Also have Misyul and one other guy I always forget his name that was at one point ahead of Bahl and Okhotiuk as far as potential goes .

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Good point, we do have to be careful with how much we commit to someone like Fiala. It is definitely beneficial to have Holtz and L. Hughes on ELC's for the next 3 years and Mercer for 2 more, but at some point with the long-term deals, it could cause issues. Especially when players like Severson, Siegs, Graves and Sharangovich require raises after next year.

Graves should be gone.
Also, those young guys are only as valuable as their play. I’m unconvinced on Holtz. His AHL numbers were great but lots of top prospects with good numbers haven’t turned out. His skating is a major concern.

Also have Misyul and one other guy I always forget his name that was at one point ahead of Bahl and Okhotiuk as far as potential goes .

Not sure who you’re talking about. Vukojevic? Not sure he was every a better prospect than them but he had some potential.

Point goes.
We have an absolutely luxury of young left D to the point where we really shouldn’t be worried about losing Graves in a year.

Siegenthaler
Hughes
Bahl
Okhotiuk
Smith
Mukhammadullin
———— (next guys are unlikely to make NHL)
Misyul
Vukojevic

But looking at those 6 guys we will likely be more than fine and our probably trading at least one of them (smith maybe) as well as letting Graves (who hasn’t been that great) go. I was talking before about trading Graves this off-season but that might be a bit too risky because then we would basically be counting on Smith, Bahl and Okhotiuk behind Siegenthaler.

 

[NJDfan86]

Ya I get that and am fine if that’s what we do. I’m just not sure we’re gonna get many opportunities to get a player of Fiala’s caliber at his age. And it’s not like it’s because people think he’s gonna be ridiculously expensive. Minnesota can’t afford him because they have 12 million being taken up by buyouts next season. That’s a rare situation that someone may take advantage of.

It’s not like Meier who has a 10 million dollar qualifying offer.

I totally get it, it is indeed a unique opportunity to leverage Minn’s cap issues And Fiala is a tremendous player.

 

[Eggtimer]

Just tossing this out there to see peoples opinions .
Fiala vs. signing Forsberg or Gaudreau .
Saves having to give up assets but will likely cost more $$ cap .
Plus those two are older in age than Fiala and I see Fiala as a better fit than Gaudreau . Not sure who I’d prefer out of Fiala and Forsberg if age / cost / were equal.
Just asking out if the three which way would you go ?

 

[R8Devs]

Fiala-Hischier-Sharangovich
Bratt-Hughes-Holtz
Niederreiter/UFA signing/Zetterlund-Boqvist-Mercer
Zetterlund-Mcleod-Bastian
Kuokkanen-Tatar

I think those would be 3 pretty good lines, and you can protect Holtz relatively easily with that lineup, either with Nico's line and/or moving up that UFA signing to the Hughes line when needed. But mostly Fiala-Nico and Bratt-Hughes should be a handful for teams to deal with. And with the added depth the Devils should be able to withstand injuries better.

When Fitz talks about same player comments, I think he'd be referring to guys like Johnsson/Tatar and that's where a UFA signing like Niederreiter could help. But the Devils don't have enough Kevin Fiala's because he's an elite player who put 70 even strength points.

I don't think the Devils should be signing any d-man aside from maybe 1 year deals.


Lowkey I think Kakko would be a good offersheet option lol.

$2,055,365 - $4,110,732

1 Second Round Pick

 

[Capt Nico Poo]

As much as Id love to see Holtz make it big time, I think its a daydream to assume he'd be anything more than a borderline 3rd liner next season. Potential PP threat like early Laine who didnt/couldnt contribute to other aspects of the game on ice.

 

[Eggtimer]

If would be massive if Gritsyuk continues on with his upward trajectory. Adding a potential top 6 caliber forward to what we have already…it would be scary .
Shara Hughes Holtz
Bratt Nico Gritsyuk

Has potential .
Of course we cannot count on Gritsyuk being a slam dunk top 6 player , nor Holtz for that matter but if they do reach that , we will be sitting pretty good.
That’s why I’m not sure if we go hard after a Fiala like addition.
Id almost rather get a deadly third line going like adding one of more of -Nuke Marchment Neiderrieder Trochek and a D like Lybushkin .
Not sure if we have the cap room to add a Fiala plus a goalie plus one more RHD .
Umkess we get a smoking good deal on Fiala below market price , then I guess you make that move and figure the rest out after?

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

Just tossing this out there to see peoples opinions .
Fiala vs. signing Forsberg or Gaudreau .
Saves having to give up assets but will likely cost more $$ cap .
Plus those two are older in age than Fiala and I see Fiala as a better fit than Gaudreau . Not sure who I’d prefer out of Fiala and Forsberg if age / cost / were equal.
Just asking out if the three which way would you go ?

If it had to be one of those three Forsberg as he would bring more of what we don't have now over Fiala or JG they are similar to our fwd group now...Forsberg allows us to keep our assets as well...Holtz and our top 5 pick (which we earned with this horrendous season we had) are assets we should hold onto imo....