Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

[NJDfan86]

Because he’s a very good hockey player in his prime who pushes the offense closer to the truly elite teams in the league? Not that complicated.

The Devils offense is not the problem, and as good as he is he is replacing someone like Tatar or Johnsson and the impact to the overall team is not going to be big enough to take the team from a 70 point team to a 95 point team.

 

[Eggtimer]

My 2 cents - save the assets and try to sign Nuke Lyubushkin and one other forward .
I’d rather sign E Kane for zero assets than give up our 1st or Holtz or other assets .
However if we decide to go that route , Fiala is a decent player to get . I’d prefer a Meier type over Fiala . Or see if Tkachuk shakes free

 

[Unknown Caller]

If your expectation that the playoffs need to be a foregone conclusion next year I fail to see how Fiala is the piece that gets you there.

This should speak for itself.

 

[RSeen]

Count me as another thinking another small playmaker is not what we should be spending assets like that on. Good player, not the most critical piece to be throwing value at.

30 goal scorer, who consistent averages over 3 shots per game...I'd describe him as a goal scorer. I wouldn't necessarily view him as a perimeter player either. He'd be a terrific top 6 addition IMO. Would instantly become our 2nd or 3rd best offensive player.

 

[devilsblood]

The playoffs need to be a foregone conclusion next year. Goaltending is obviously a mandatory fix, but this team isn’t going to separate from the pack until you start making moves for players of Fiala’s caliber.

Much like this year I think you go into next year looking to compete for a playoff spot. Thinking it a foregone conclusion when you're coming off a basement dweller season is setting yourself up for disappointment.

I also don't think acquiring a Fiala is the necessary type move to take that next step. I think we can get there by fixing the goal tending situation, making sure the defense is in place, and letting out young fwds develop.

Obviously acquiring Fiala would help, especially in the short term but if it impedes our ability to acquire a goalie or signing Graves/Sevs or their replacements, then I'm wary of such a move.

Now if we think we can sign Fiala to a 5x5 deal, then I'm more open to such a deal. If he's looking at something along the lines of 8x8? Then I probably say no.

 

[NJDfan86]

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2022/04/19123310/Screen-Shot-2022-04-19-at-12.10.33-PM.png

This should speak for itself.

Again, that’s not a 25 point difference in the standings. No one is questioning how good of a player Fiala is - they are questioning whether the cost to acquire him will yield the biggest impact on the team’s performance moving forward. Every asset spent on him can no longer be leveraged at the bigger area of needs than LH shooting wingers.

 

[Unknown Caller]

Much like this year I think you go into next year looking to compete for a playoff spot. Thinking it a foregone conclusion when you're coming off a basement dweller season is setting yourself up for disappointment.

I also don't think acquiring a Fiala is the necessary type move to take that next step. I think we can get there by fixing the goal tending situation, making sure the defense is in place, and letting out young fwds develop.

Obviously acquiring Fiala would help, especially in the short term but if it impedes our ability to acquire a goalie or signing Graves/Sevs or their replacements, then I'm wary of such a move.

Now if we think we can sign Fiala to a 5x5 deal, then I'm more open to such a deal. If he's looking at something along the lines of 8x8? Then I probably say no.

The defense is in place. The young forwards are developing. Fitz is going to make a move to try to fix the goaltending. You need to take the next step. It's not complicated. Great hockey players make your team deeper and better. What happens in the event you lose a key forward to injury next season? Are you just going to throw in the towel because you didn't have elite depth?

The Devils took their time building this and they now have core pieces in/entering their prime on palatable contracts. They need to start making the moves to get closer the true contenders.

Again, that’s not a 25 point difference in the standings. No one is questioning how good of a player Fiala is - they are questioning whether the cost to acquire him will yield the biggest impact on the team’s performance moving forward. Every asset spent on him can no longer be leveraged at the bigger area of needs than LH shooting wingers.

They have enough room to address multiple needs. Goaltending is going to be addressed. The powerplay is going to be addressed. They need to keep adding to the offensive firepower with elite players. Don't waste Jack and Nico praying that Holtz develops into a 1st line winger overnight.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

That is far too much. Given the age difference and the season Holtz just had, straight up is fair. Fiala is one year from UFA.

Johnsson, Zacha and Tatar will all be gone after next year.

Holy. What don’t people understand. We’re only talking about this deal in the context of us being certain that he will be extended if he hasn’t already when the trade is made. Nobody is saying we should make a big trade for 1 year of Fiala.

 

[devilsblood]

The defense is in place. The young forwards are developing. Fitz is going to make a move to try to fix the goaltending. You need to take the next step. It's not complicated. Great hockey players make your team deeper and better. What happens in the event you lose a key forward to injury next season? Are you just going to throw in the towel because you didn't have elite depth?

The Devils took their time building this and they now have core pieces in/entering their prime on palatable contracts. They need to start making the moves to get closer the true contenders.



They have enough room to address multiple needs. Goaltending is going to be addressed. The powerplay is going to be addressed. They need to keep adding to the offensive firepower with elite players. Don't waste Jack and Nico praying that Holtz develops into a 1st line winger overnight.

Aren't both Sev's and Graves up for contracts after next season?

And until goal tending is addressed, I'm wary of giving up any assets or taking up cap space on a winger.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Count me as another thinking another small playmaker is not what we should be spending assets like that on. Good player, not the most critical piece to be throwing value at.

Short=small. He’s also a good goalscorer btw. Skilled player can put up 30+ goals and 75+ points would be huge. And we’re gonna need to get another really good winger from somewhere to really become a contender IMO.

 

[RSeen]

Holy. What don’t people understand. We’re only talking about this deal in the context of us being certain that he will be extended if he hasn’t already when the trade is made. Nobody is saying we should make a big trade for 1 year of Fiala.

I did not say we should trade for 1 year of Fiala either. However, the fact he is 1 year from UFA lowers his value because he has a greater deal of control over where he signs/length vs. a younger RFA.

 

[Triumph]

Brannstrom had done very well since being drafted. Better than expected even though he was taken 15th overall. It wasn’t about other guys it was because he had done very well and had become very highly regarded as a prospect.

It's always about other guys when you're talking about a redraft, and it was you who brought up the redraft. Brannstrom wasn't doing anything that special, he just wasn't not living up to expectations. Vilardi had spent 2 years mostly injured, Lias Andersson was faltering, Mittelstadt and Rasmussen were doing nothing special in th NHL, Brannstrom was doing well, but not better than expected.

And that isn’t true at all. The Mark Stone trade wasn’t contingent on that and it didn’t happen immediately. It happened 11 days later so they obviously felt good about their chances and worked hard to get it done right away. The circumstances are different. There’s a ton of opportunity still to sign Fiala to a longer term extension right now and before he even gets to arbitration as an RFA. If Fiala goes to arbitration now and signs a one year deal then it could be similar in 9-10 months.

There's no way that that trade is made without some sort of discussion between Vegas and Stone about his willingness to sign and the preliminaries of a deal. Players like Brannstrom are not traded for rentals anymore and really haven't been since the cap era began. Hossa, Kovalchuk, Hall, whomever you want to name as a big rental acquisition.

That’s ridiculous. Suggesting a 25, turning 26 year old point per game top line winger isn’t worth a top 6 pick. Are you kidding me. Fiala is better than probably 80% of players taken 4-6 ever will be. If you’re picking in that range you’re hoping to get a player of Fiala’s level but more often than not you won’t.

That does not matter. The value of a high 1st round pick is not only the possibility of selecting a superstar player but that you get that player on a mandatory 3 year entry-level contract which is now quite close to league minimum. If this player is even an average NHLer for 2 of those 3 years that represents a gigantic savings, plus the opportunity to sign this player to a favorable long-term contract. Fiala's cheap days are done. In his first 6 years in the league, he made $14M, he will make that over his next 2 years. He no longer represents a large potential cap savings. He's worth less than a 6th overall pick, not significantly less, but certainly less - Minnesota would need to add to that deal.

I’m not even sure what Marek’s reporting has to do this or what you’re saying. Using Marek’s reporting as anchoring? Huh? Can you explain that? Doesn’t make much sense does it? I didn’t take anything from that Marek report other than that the Devils like and may be interested in Fiala.

Anchoring bias is very real and once you hear the idea of Fiala for Devils 1st round pick from a trusted source it might make more sense. It's not a fair deal.

 

[Unknown Caller]

Aren't both Sev's and Graves up for contracts after next season?

Yes, they have room to bring Severson back. I don't know if they'll bother spending the money on Graves. Between Subban off the books this year and Tatar, Johnsson, Graves and the Schneider buyout off the books next year, they will be able to address their needs.

Zacha's money will presumably free up as well.

 

[NJDfan86]

The defense is in place. The young forwards are developing. Fitz is going to make a move to try to fix the goaltending. You need to take the next step. It's not complicated. Great hockey players make your team deeper and better. What happens in the event you lose a key forward to injury next season? Are you just going to throw in the towel because you didn't have elite depth?

The Devils took their time building this and they now have core pieces in/entering their prime on palatable contracts. They need to start making the moves to get closer the true contenders.



They have enough room to address multiple needs. Goaltending is going to be addressed. The powerplay is going to be addressed. They need to keep adding to the offensive firepower with elite players. Don't waste Jack and Nico praying that Holtz develops into a 1st line winger overnight.

The defense is not in place - Graves, Severson, and Siegenthaler are all FA’s after next season. They either need to use assets to replace them or use cap space to extend them and trading for Fiala will take from both of those categories.

You will also need assets to fix the goaltending - I don’t know why people keep thinking we will have tons of cap space forever but that will run out in short order once we have at minimum 5 players making over 7 per year.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

My 2 cents - save the assets and try to sign Nuke Lyubushkin and one other forward .
I’d rather sign E Kane for zero assets than give up our 1st or Holtz or other assets .
However if we decide to go that route , Fiala is a decent player to get . I’d prefer a Meier type over Fiala . Or see if Tkachuk shakes free

Sorry but Tkachuk isn’t just gonna shake free. And, we can try to sign those guys but there’s gonna be multiple other teams trying and they aren’t close to as impactful as someone like Fiala. I’m not saying we need to or we should force it but if we have to opportunity to add a player like Fiala we should definitely consider it and see if we can work something out.

30 goal scorer, who consistent averages over 3 shots per game...I'd describe him as a goal scorer. I wouldn't necessarily view him as a perimeter player either. He'd be a terrific top 6 addition IMO. Would instantly become our 2nd or 3rd best offensive player.

Could probably say best right now considering what he’s done over the past 3 seasons. Hughes might be better if he can stay healthy and Bratt is certainly close but isn’t really close in terms of track record of production over recent seasons.

 

[Unknown Caller]

The defense is not in place - Graves, Severson, and Siegenthaler are all FA’s after next season. They either need to use assets to replace them or use cap space to extend them and trading for Fiala will take from both of those categories.

You will also need assets to fix the goaltending - I don’t know why people keep thinking we will have tons of cap space forever but that will run out in short order once we have at minimum 5 players making over 7 per year.

The defense is absolutely fine. They have the room to bring back both Severson and Siegenthaler and add Fiala. It's not that complicated. Between Okhotiuk, Mukhamadullin, Luke Hughes, Walsh and Bahl, the Devils have tons of options to replace Graves with an ELC. It's not even like he's an RD.

They have the room to fix the goaltending. Like I said, Schneider's buyout is off the books next year and Bernier's cap hit is done after next year. Even just taking those two into account, you have about $6mm freed up just from goalies alone.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Again, that’s not a 25 point difference in the standings. No one is questioning how good of a player Fiala is - they are questioning whether the cost to acquire him will yield the biggest impact on the team’s performance moving forward. Every asset spent on him can no longer be leveraged at the bigger area of needs than LH shooting wingers.

I would argue that it is actually one of our bigger areas of need going forward. I think we really need another top winger and that will be very hard to come by. Obviously right now Goaltending is our biggest. And then if we can’t resign Severson RD. But after that I’d say the best thing we could add is a really good winger to play with our top centers.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

The defense is not in place - Graves, Severson, and Siegenthaler are all FA’s after next season. They either need to use assets to replace them or use cap space to extend them and trading for Fiala will take from both of those categories.

You will also need assets to fix the goaltending - I don’t know why people keep thinking we will have tons of cap space forever but that will run out in short order once we have at minimum 5 players making over 7 per year.

That’s not that many players making over 7 million per year considering one of them will probably be worth 10+ as early as next season in actual value. Bratt and Nico will also be primed aged and worth what they’re paid. Hamilton remains to be seen.

The issue is when you are not getting value from the contracts you’re handing out. I don’t think the cap will be a huge problem with Holtz and Luke’s ELCs for the next few years. After that, we’ll see. That’s something literally every team has to deal with. I’m not concerned.

 

[NJDfan86]

The defense is absolutely fine. They have the room to bring back both Severson and Siegenthaler and add Fiala. It's not that complicated. Between Okhotiuk, Mukhamadullin, Luke Hughes, Walsh and Bahl, the Devils have tons of options to replace Graves with an ELC. It's not even like he's an RD.

They have the room to fix the goaltending. Like I said, Schneider's buyout if off the books next year and Bernier's cap hit is done after next year. Even just taking those two into account, you have about $6mm freed up just from goalies alone.

Severson and Siegenthaler will get significant raises, and you are hoping that those players (with the exception of Hughes) will be good enough to play for a playoff team.

The Devils will also need to sign Sharangovich to a new deal, Mercer will only have 1 more year on his ELC, unless you luck out with an ELC goalie you will need to spend there, etc. The
fantasy the the Devils have seemingly unlimited cap space has oddly permeated this place, especially when advocating for trading ELC assets for players who need big new contracts.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

It's always about other guys when you're talking about a redraft, and it was you who brought up the redraft. Brannstrom wasn't doing anything that special, he just wasn't not living up to expectations. Vilardi had spent 2 years mostly injured, Lias Andersson was faltering, Mittelstadt and Rasmussen were doing nothing special in th NHL, Brannstrom was doing well, but not better than expected.



There's no way that that trade is made without some sort of discussion between Vegas and Stone about his willingness to sign and the preliminaries of a deal. Players like Brannstrom are not traded for rentals anymore and really haven't been since the cap era began. Hossa, Kovalchuk, Hall, whomever you want to name as a big rental acquisition.



That does not matter. The value of a high 1st round pick is not only the possibility of selecting a superstar player but that you get that player on a mandatory 3 year entry-level contract which is now quite close to league minimum. If this player is even an average NHLer for 2 of those 3 years that represents a gigantic savings, plus the opportunity to sign this player to a favorable long-term contract. Fiala's cheap days are done. In his first 6 years in the league, he made $14M, he will make that over his next 2 years. He no longer represents a large potential cap savings. He's worth less than a 6th overall pick, not significantly less, but certainly less - Minnesota would need to add to that deal.



Anchoring bias is very real and once you hear the idea of Fiala for Devils 1st round pick from a trusted source it might make more sense. It's not a fair deal.

I never brought up a redraft. Not sure what you’re talking about. I was purely talking about value and I’d say Brannstrom’s value was similar to that of a top 10 NHL draft pick when he was traded.


I completely disagree with you on the value. I understand that the ELC days are very valuable but I don’t think it outweighs how valuable an established player of Fiala’s caliber is. I believe it’s more likely we may have to add than Minnesota.

I also didn’t hear the idea of the devils trading Fiala for the devils 1st. It’s not like he said that’s what was being discussed. He said the devils like Fiala. I’m not anchoring to anything. It just would make sense and Fitz has mentioned that he might be willing to move that pick. You’re just trying to bring up some random bias thing to downplay my opinion. Not necessary man. As I said, my original thoughts are that we might have to add to that, assuming we’re trading for him with a contract as good as lined up.

 

[NJDfan86]

I would argue that it is actually one of our bigger areas of need going forward. I think we really need another top winger and that will be very hard to come by. Obviously right now Goaltending is our biggest. And then if we can’t resign Severson RD. But after that I’d say the best thing we could add is a really good winger to play with our top centers.

The Devils have a PPG winger in the AHL on an ELC already in the organization, and a top 6 pick this year. Winger is so much lower on the need chart than goalie and defenseman.

 

[Unknown Caller]

Severson and Siegenthaler will get significant raises, and you are hoping that those players (with the exception of Hughes) will be good enough to play for a playoff team.

The Devils will also need to sign Sharangovich to a new deal, Mercer will only have 1 more year on his ELC, unless you luck out with an ELC goalie you will need to spend there, etc. The
fantasy the the Devils have seemingly unlimited cap space has oddly permeated this place, especially when advocating for trading ELC assets for players who need big new contracts.

If there isn't a single defenseman developing in the system that is "good enough to play for a playoff team," then the Devils have significant issues outside of cap space.

A guy like Dawson Mercer isn't even off his ELC until 2024-25. If he's so good at that point that he's given a significant contract, then the Devils have good problems to deal with. I'm not going to hold off on adding key players just because someone like Mercer might earn a raise in the distant future.

 

[devilsblood]

Yes, they have room to bring Severson back. I don't know if they'll bother spending the money on Graves. Between Subban off the books this year and Tatar, Johnsson, Graves and the Schneider buyout off the books next year, they will be able to address their needs.

Zacha's money will presumably free up as well.

I don't follow the cap side super closely so I'm legit asking questions here but.

Bratt needs to be signed, as does Sev's, and we need to find a goalie. If we trade for Fiala, we need to sign him too. Again don't really know the cap situation, but even with Subban coming off(and that is not a complete write off as we need to find a replacement for that spot too) I imagine it get's tight.

As per Graves. I assume not bringing him back is centered around the idea of Hughes being in the mix. In this scenario we have a 20 year old rookie in Hughes as well as one of Bahl/Smith/OK. That's a little risky imo if we are thinking the team should be a playoff team at that point.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Severson and Siegenthaler will get significant raises, and you are hoping that those players (with the exception of Hughes) will be good enough to play for a playoff team.

The Devils will also need to sign Sharangovich to a new deal, Mercer will only have 1 more year on his ELC, unless you luck out with an ELC goalie you will need to spend there, etc. The
fantasy the the Devils have seemingly unlimited cap space has oddly permeated this place, especially when advocating for trading ELC assets for players who need big new contracts.

It’s a good bet that at least some of those many young D will be good enough to play. Bahl was already better than Graves since being called up and Okhotiuk looks really good too. And then there’s Mukhammadullin and L.Hughes. I’m not even very interested in keeping Graves and he didn’t finish the season very well.

The Devils have lots coming off the books. Enough where they can afford to trade for an established player and give him a nice player.

 

[Unknown Caller]

The Devils have a PPG winger in the AHL on an ELC already in the organization, and a top 6 pick this year. Winger is so much lower on the need chart than goalie and defenseman.

He's been horrendous at the NHL level. Sure, the potential is there for him to continue developing, but this team needs to take the next step. You don't rely on a guy who hasn't potted a single NHL goal.