Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

[Darkauron]

Yeah if we trade for Fiala it will be a trade and sign sort of deal for sure. I am not very high on this year's draft anyway, especially if we move down and not up, it would be the draft to trade the pick.

 

[Guttersniped]

Yeah if we trade for Fiala it will be a trade and sign sort of deal for sure. I am not very high on this year's draft anyway, especially if we move down and not up, it would be the draft to trade the pick.

Mark Stone got one “blue chip” prospect drafted at #15 and the 2nd was #61 pick, ours is #37 and Holtz was drafted at #7 (And they also got Oscar Lindberg, who was a “whatever” add.)

Good luck to them getting some of the returns their fans want.

 

[Devs3cups]

I’d be real cautious about trading Holtz. I understand you have to give to receive, but we could probably get Fiala for a lesser prospect than Holtz. Usually in trades for top line/top-6 guys, a prospect of a lesser level than Holtz goes the other way. That’s the trend I’m seeing anyway.

Still really perplexed by how much the outlook on Holtz has changed in the last few weeks based on a handful of NHL games. Kid still had an awesome first N.A pro season and has loads of potential. He fits a need in the top-6 as a shoot first mentality player, and a good one at that. Sure, he has areas where he needs to improve, as does every prospect, and he’s improved on them this year. I dunno, seems a bit premature to me.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Mark Stone got one “blue chip” prospect drafted at #15 and the 2nd was #61 pick, ours is #37 and Holtz was drafted at #7 (And they also got Oscar Lindberg, who was a “whatever” add.)

Good luck to them getting some of the returns their fans want.

Brannstrom was considered better than a 15th overall pick at the time of the trade. He’s was very highly regarded and had done really well since being drafted. Was much more like a top 10 pick at that point who wasn’t supposed to be far from NHL ready.
Stone was also traded before the trade deadline going into being a UFA in the summer. So that isn’t really comparable either. We should and probably would only trade for Fiala if we were really confident in signing him long term.

 

[Zippy316]

I wouldn’t want to give up Holtz for Fiala. If that first was on the table, I would try first for something like Zacha + 2022 1st + prospect before I include Holtz in.

Holtz should be seen as an extremely valuable asset on an ELC for three more years after one of the best AHL seasons ever for a player his age.

He might need to go to get a piece Fitz really wants, but in a theoretical Fiala trade, it has to be 2022 1st or Holtz.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Good point raised in this. As much as some fans would rather wait for the prospect Fitz knows he doesn’t have all the time in the world and won’t necessarily have time to wait for said prospect to be impactful if things don’t turn around soon.

 

[Zippy316]

Holtz makes a lot more sense than the first to the Wild.

Especially with those Suter/Parise recapture penalties kicking up soon. Fitz should be able to play hardball on the value with the cap relief Wild would get. Holtz would be an extremely valuable asset to them on an ELC for the next three years while they are paying those ~12-14 million penalties on Suter/Parise.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

Good point raised in this. As much as some fans would rather wait for the prospect Fitz knows he doesn’t have all the time in the world and won’t necessarily have time to wait for said prospect to be impactful if things don’t turn around soon.

How does anyone know what Devils ownership is thinking with respect to when the team should win? Go back to Blitzers interview in December. Note he said the organization was behind Fitz long term plan and than corrected himself and said medium to long term plan. Devils owners are not dumb - they know no team was winning with the goaltending they got this year.

 

[LeedsMonster]

Fiala is a good player no doubt, but does he bring the interior play and physicality that we need? I dont remember seeing him play.

 

[devilsblood]

How does anyone know what Devils ownership is thinking with respect to when the team should win? Go back to Blitzers interview in December. Note he said the organization was behind Fitz long term plan and than corrected himself and said medium to long term plan. Devils owners are not dumb - they know no team was winning with the goaltending they got this year.

Ya, we talked all year about the goaltending undermining the play of the team in front of it.

The solution as proposed by fans? Trading key assets for a winger that will then need to be paid.

Do note we will need to either pay, or replace 3 different d-men by the start of the 23-24 season.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Ya, we talked all year about the goaltending undermining the play of the team in front of it.

The solution as proposed by fans? Trading key assets for a winger that will then need to be paid.

Do note we will need to either pay, or replace 3 different d-men by the start of the 23-24 season.

Just because the goaltending was undermining the team play that doesn’t mean the team is good enough. The players are much better than our record but we still need better players.

I’ve always been all about keeping the draft pick but at this point if there’s a deal for a good player that makes sense it should be looked at and considered. I think this is a fair debate to have. If we were to acquire Fiala he would probably be our best winger and goalscorer. And we need at least one more really good winger going forward IMO.
Maybe Fiala makes sense, maybe he doesn’t but he’s a damn good player who probably could and maybe will command something along the lines of a top 6 pick.

 

[Triumph]

Brannstrom was considered better than a 15th overall pick at the time of the trade. He’s was very highly regarded and had done really well since being drafted. Was much more like a top 10 pick at that point who wasn’t supposed to be far from NHL ready.
Stone was also traded before the trade deadline going into being a UFA in the summer. So that isn’t really comparable either. We should and probably would only trade for Fiala if we were really confident in signing him long term.

Brannstrom had played 0 games in the NHL and it was his D+2 year when he was traded. He's only considered a top 10 pick in a redraft because other guys had started falling on their faces and the 2017 draft wasn't all that strong to begin with. I'm not saying he wasn't a top prospect because he absolutely was, but he still hadn't gotten any NHL time.

The trade was contingent on Mark Stone signing a long-term contract in Vegas which he did immediately. Since 2022-23 is Fiala's walk year I think the circumstances are quite similar.

How does anyone know what Devils ownership is thinking with respect to when the team should win? Go back to Blitzers interview in December. Note he said the organization was behind Fitz long term plan and than corrected himself and said medium to long term plan. Devils owners are not dumb - they know no team was winning with the goaltending they got this year.

Ownerships have a funny way of reversing themselves on medium and long-term plans when short-term plans are not working out. Go back and listen to Blitzer talk about Lou in 2014 and what happened a year after that. I don't think Fitz feels pressure to make the playoffs or he won't have a job, but I'm sure he feels pressure to get the team to an 80+ point season.

Just because the goaltending was undermining the team play that doesn’t mean the team is good enough. The players are much better than our record but we still need better players.

I’ve always been all about keeping the draft pick but at this point if there’s a deal for a good player that makes sense it should be looked at and considered. I think this is a fair debate to have. If we were to acquire Fiala he would probably be our best winger and goalscorer. And we need at least one more really good winger going forward IMO.
Maybe Fiala makes sense, maybe he doesn’t but he’s a damn good player who probably could and maybe will command something along the lines of a top 6 pick.

No, this is you using Marek's report as anchoring, there is absolutely no way Fiala, even a signed Fiala, is worth a top 6 pick, straight up.

 

[RSeen]

Holtz makes a lot more sense than the first to the Wild.

Especially with those Suter/Parise recapture penalties kicking up soon. Fitz should be able to play hardball on the value with the cap relief Wild would get. Holtz would be an extremely valuable asset to them on an ELC for the next three years while they are paying those ~12-14 million penalties on Suter/Parise.

We should not be looking to trade Holtz. We've already invested two years and he should be close to NHL ready. That first could take two years to be NHL ready.

Another thing to consider is how much competition will we have for Fiala? He is very good but the market is less than it would in a normalized situation (i.e., due to relatively flat cap). I don't know if we necessarily need to pay top dollar to acquire him. The first is a steep price that while fair on the surface, given the lesser potential market, can we get away with giving them a less valuable chip?

 

[Captain3rdLine]

How does anyone know what Devils ownership is thinking with respect to when the team should win? Go back to Blitzers interview in December. Note he said the organization was behind Fitz long term plan and than corrected himself and said medium to long term plan. Devils owners are not dumb - they know no team was winning with the goaltending they got this year.

We don’t know but it’s fair to assume that like any GM of a team that hasn’t been in the playoffs in a while, has had numerous high picks and is supposed to be competing sooner rather than later Fitz doesn’t have all the time in the world. And Fitz knows that. He knows that the devils probably need to be competing for a playoff spot next year at least and probably in the playoffs no later than the season after that or he’s probably on the hot seat.
That’s why Fitz could very likely be more inclined to trade a pick that will likely take at least 2-3 years to have a noticeable impact If not longer for a guy who is currently a very good first line winger and isn’t old.
It’s not crazy.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Brannstrom had played 0 games in the NHL and it was his D+2 year when he was traded. He's only considered a top 10 pick in a redraft because other guys had started falling on their faces and the 2017 draft wasn't all that strong to begin with. I'm not saying he wasn't a top prospect because he absolutely was, but he still hadn't gotten any NHL time.

The trade was contingent on Mark Stone signing a long-term contract in Vegas which he did immediately. Since 2022-23 is Fiala's walk year I think the circumstances are quite similar.



Ownerships have a funny way of reversing themselves on medium and long-term plans when short-term plans are not working out. Go back and listen to Blitzer talk about Lou in 2014 and what happened a year after that. I don't think Fitz feels pressure to make the playoffs or he won't have a job, but I'm sure he feels pressure to get the team to an 80+ point season.



No, this is you using Marek's report as anchoring, there is absolutely no way Fiala, even a signed Fiala, is worth a top 6 pick, straight up.

Brannstrom had done very well since being drafted. Better than expected even though he was taken 15th overall. It wasn’t about other guys it was because he had done very well and had become very highly regarded as a prospect.

And that isn’t true at all. The Mark Stone trade wasn’t contingent on that and it didn’t happen immediately. It happened 11 days later so they obviously felt good about their chances and worked hard to get it done right away. The circumstances are different. There’s a ton of opportunity still to sign Fiala to a longer term extension right now and before he even gets to arbitration as an RFA. If Fiala goes to arbitration now and signs a one year deal then it could be similar in 9-10 months.


That’s ridiculous. Suggesting a 25, turning 26 year old point per game top line winger isn’t worth a top 6 pick. Are you kidding me. Fiala is better than probably 80% of players taken 4-6 ever will be. If you’re picking in that range you’re hoping to get a player of Fiala’s level but more often than not you won’t.

I’m not even sure what Marek’s reporting has to do this or what you’re saying. Using Marek’s reporting as anchoring? Huh? Can you explain that? Doesn’t make much sense does it? I didn’t take anything from that Marek report other than that the Devils like and may be interested in Fiala.

 

[markog]

Or get E. Kane and save the assets.

 

[Zippy316]

We should not be looking to trade Holtz. We've already invested two years and he should be close to NHL ready. That first could take two years to be NHL ready.

Another thing to consider is how much competition will we have for Fiala? He is very good but the market is less than it would in a normalized situation (i.e., due to relatively flat cap). I don't know if we necessarily need to pay top dollar to acquire him. The first is a steep price that while fair on the surface, given the lesser potential market, can we get away with giving them a less valuable chip?

I'm not a huge fan of trading Holtz either, but someone like Fiala makes a ton of sense. If you look at the Wild's cap situation, Holtz is extremely valuable to them on an ELC for three years (while they are paying hefty cap penalties on Suter/Parise). If the Devils can get Fiala for little more than Holtz because of the Wild's situation, they have to seriously consider that.

I would keep the 2022 1st out of it if Holtz is on the table. Plus I think Holtz would be the primary target for the Wild because of the recapture penalties anyways. Holtz + Kuokkannen + Devils 2022 2nd would probably be my best offer. I would also expect a couple second/third round picks from the Devils trading away Zacha/Johnsson as well to make up for trading a high second.

The only complications would really be long-term and short-term salary outlook. If the Devils make this trade and keep Bratt, they would have to dump at minimum two of Johnsson, Zacha, or Tatar.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I wouldn’t underestimate the appeal that Brannstrom had as probably the best Swedish defense prospect who wasn’t playing in the NHL. Depending upon what time you’re talking about, by default, that player is almost always “the next” Karlsson, Lidstrom or Hedman. For whatever reason, you don’t get that with Swedish forwards.

 

[Darkauron]

Or get E. Kane and save the assets.

No way in hell. No thanks

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I wouldn’t underestimate the appeal that Brannstrom had as probably the best Swedish defense prospect who wasn’t playing in the NHL. Depending upon what time you’re talking about, by default, that player is almost always “the next” Karlsson, Lidstrom or Hedman. For whatever reason, you don’t get that with Swedish forwards.

Yes he was very hyped up at the time.

 

[markog]

No way in hell. No thanks

Ok then, get both Kane and DeAngelo!

 

[LeedsMonster]

Or get E. Kane and save the assets.

Some people won't like this, but if he has learned a lesson and has gotten his personal life in order I wouldn't mind a 2-3 year deal to line him up with Jacky boy. Big risk admittedly

 

[markog]

Some people won't like this, but if he has learned a lesson and has gotten his personal life in order I wouldn't mind a 2-3 year deal to line him up with Jacky boy. Big risk admittedly

Exactly, nobody would give him longer term.

 

[My3Sons]

I’m skeptical Fitz is hearing from the analytics people or ownership the team has to score more to improve significantly. I’m contrast I’m pretty confident they are having handwringing internal meetings about goaltending and team defense. Why would the team expend assets when they know they have to address the goaltending from “square one” as Fitz said? Fix the goalies, sign Bratt, make a decision on Severson and if you are keeping him then sign him, and then if assets and the cap allow you can add a luxury winger. There will be good wings reaching the end of their deals over the next couple of years that I’m not worried any one specific guy is a must have. I’d rather get Meier when he shakes loose in SJ after next year for example. I also have little interest in paying above market to keep some guy acquired at the end of his RFA years who is looking primarily to cash in. Any guy acquired in trade would have to come with an extension and I can’t imagine that idea is lost on the team.

 

[devilsblood]

You just can't trade the 1st straight up for Fiala. You can maybe do something like NJ 1st-NJ 3rd for Min 1st-Fiala-Min 2nd, something like that, especially if Minnesota wins a round or two, or maybe just NJ 1st for Min 1st-Fiala, but yeah, a pick this high just cannot be worth a player one year away from UFA. Holtz for Fiala + something else makes a lot of sense too, because he has a 3 year ELC and Minnesota has a 3 year window where the Parise/Suter buyouts are onerous.

I also like offer sheeting Fiala, which is a possibility because Minnesota cannot risk taking him to team-elected arbitration, and Fiala might not elect for arbitration himself, or if he does, I feel like there is a window in which to sign him to an offer sheet.

What kind of contract do you expect Fiala to get, and how would that fit in our cap structure 2-3 years from now?