Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

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RSeen

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That would be a huge addition. Like he’s really good and can score.

What could the cost be? Pick 5 or 6 and then what?
Would they have interest in Zacha and/or Smith?
Holtz?
Gritsyuk?
Mukhammadullin?

All of those guys could be in play on a deal like this.

And then we would have to figure out his contract.

This should be a much more fun discussion than just talking about Ruff and Recchi.
Not Holtz. He is close to NHL ready, we have other pieces that can be supplemental pieces.
 

Eggtimer

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That would be a huge addition. Like he’s really good and can score.

What could the cost be? Pick 5 or 6 and then what?
Would they have interest in Zacha and/or Smith?
Holtz?
Gritsyuk?
Mukhammadullin?

All of those guys could be in play on a deal like this.

And then we would have to figure out his contract.

This should be a much more fun discussion than just talking about Ruff and Recchi.
Oh god no spending our 1st plus. It would have to be a sign and trade or else it could end up with only 1 more year of Fiala (or is it two ) . That would be piss poor handling of assets.
 

Captain3rdLine

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Not Holtz. He is close to NHL ready, we have other pieces that can be supplemental pieces.
I’m not sold on Holtz.

Oh god no spending our 1st plus. It would have to be a sign and trade or else it could end up with only 1 more year of Fiala (or is it two ) . That would be piss poor handling of assets.
He’s a restricted free agent. We’d be acquiring him confident that we could resign him long-term.
 

RSeen

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Yes Fiala would be awesome but not sure if its the best use of assets or best fit.
Id rather keep our 1st round pick then sign Nichushkin and Marchment and Lybushkin types.
Jirichek Nuke Niederrieder type players is > Fiala
He is going to get a big contract as well and is 26. If he was a few years younger, I'd be more inclined to trade our first, but in the current situation I think it's a big price to pay.

Adding another top prospect could really help us down the line with having a quality player on an ELC.




I’m not sold on Holtz.


He’s a restricted free agent. We’d be acquiring him confident that we could resign him long-term.

Thats fine if your not sold on Holtz, but the reality is, he projects well given he just had a PPG season in the AHL. He has significant value.
 

Captain3rdLine

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He is going to get a big contract as well and is 26. If he was a few years younger, I'd be more inclined to trade our first, but in the current situation I think it's a big price to pay.

Adding another top prospect could really help us down the line with having a quality player on an ELC.


Thats fine if your not sold on Holtz, but the reality is, he projects well given he just had a PPG season in the AHL. He has significant value.
Lots of prospects put up big numbers and project well and then never turn out. His skating isn’t good enough and concerns me. I’d rather him have 10 less points but be a better skater. I’d feel better with that.

And I agree that having a good young player on an ELC is very valuable but at the same time it’s no guarantee that the player we draft will end up being close to as impactful of a player as someone like Fiala. I understand where you’re coming from and I think it’s all about price. How much it would take to get him and then what his contract would cost.
 

Cheddabombs

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He is going to get a big contract as well and is 26. If he was a few years younger, I'd be more inclined to trade our first, but in the current situation I think it's a big price to pay.

Adding another top prospect could really help us down the line with having a quality player on an ELC.

I really don't get this mentality at this point, and sorry I don't mean to single you out lol. But this team is already incredibly young and still has a few strong prospects coming up. Of course you can always use good prospects but at a certain point, which we are definitely at IMO, you have to start adding to that core with more veterans. And Fiala isn't even that old.

I just think this is how you get in a place where you're in a constant rebuild. I see so many posts about not wanting to commit to a player that's like 27-28, so we should sell them off get even younger. Then we suck the next yaear because those young guys aren't McDavid, and we end up looking to sell off the next 27-28 year old, and the cycle continues.

Of course you still have to be smart and not just hand out 8 year deals with massive cap hits to everyone, but there's a middle ground where we can commit to good players on reasonable terms to help insulate the young core we have.
 

SKNJD9

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Bleedred

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Crazy that Louis Dominigue couldn't stop a beach ball for us but can apparently win playoff games for the penguins.
He let in probably two bad goals too.

And that second goal isn’t one I’d give him a stoppable goal for, but he still finds a way to make goals that probably shouldn’t be stopped look bad.

Someone in here pointed that out earlier.
 

Captain3rdLine

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I really don't get this mentality at this point, and sorry I don't mean to single you out lol. But this team is already incredibly young and still has a few strong prospects coming up. Of course you can always use good prospects but at a certain point, which we are definitely at IMO, you have to start adding to that core with more veterans. And Fiala isn't even that old.

I just think this is how you get in a place where you're in a constant rebuild. I see so many posts about not wanting to commit to a player that's like 27-28, so we should sell them off get even younger. Then we suck the next yaear because those young guys aren't McDavid, and we end up looking to sell off the next 27-28 year old, and the cycle continues.

Of course you still have to be smart and not just hand out 8 year deals with massive cap hits to everyone, but there's a middle ground where we can commit to good players on reasonable terms to help insulate the young core we have.
This is exactly why Fiala might make sense if a reasonable deal can be worked out to acquire and sign him. He’s not even old. He turns 26 this summer. So two years older than Bratt, a year older than Zacha, and 2 years younger than Severson. If we were to sign him to a max 8 year contract it would cover ages 26-33 with him being in his 20’s still for the entire first half of the contract. And it may only be a 7 year, 6 year or less deal. Makes perfect sense and he might immediately be our best forward and goalscorer.

What if we can trade our first round pick and little more to Minnesota for him and sign him to a 7 times 7? Takes him through ages 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32. Most of those years you could expect to be fair value especially as the cap moves up. Or you take that pick and hope you made the right choice and that player develops well which doesn’t always happen. But it’s still probably taking at least 2-3 years before they’re good enough to have any noticeable impact even if they do workout. There’s much more risk and time with the pick. It’s a good debate to have but it may be time to make a big deal like this if there’s one that makes sense and I wouldn’t be surprised if Fitz does
 

Captain3rdLine

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A Fiala trade should look a lot like the Reinhardt trade. So I doubt our first rounder this year or Holtz would be part of it. Maybe our second and a top ten protected pick next year.
Sorry but Fiala is better right now than Reinhart ever was before he was traded.

Just when comparing their production:

Over 196 games the past 3 seasons Fiala has produced at a 32 goal, 75 point 82 game pace while missing very few games. Finished with 33 and 85 in 82 games this season despite a very slow start.

Before being traded Reinhart had produced at about a 60 point pace for 2 seasons, and 65 points the season before that. However, he did score at a 38 goal pace in the season before being traded but a 26 goal pace in the season before and 22 before that.

So while his production was good it wasn’t as good as Fiala’s has been. Also if you just watch Fiala you’ll see how good he is.

Fiala is a dynamic offensive player who could be a key piece to whatever line Bratt isn’t on and is a good goalscorer and playmaker. Having two skilled and talented wingers to put on each line would be huge and may certainly be worth our first round pick.

It will almost certainly cost at least a bit more than Reinhart did. Reinhart cost a top-10 protected first and a good goalie prospect. It wouldn’t surprise me if it took our first round pick this year or Holtz to get Fiala from Minnesota. Fiala is a better player than Reinhart was. We obviously can’t make the deal though without knowing we’ll be able to sign him to fair a long term contract.
 

Triumph

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You just can't trade the 1st straight up for Fiala. You can maybe do something like NJ 1st-NJ 3rd for Min 1st-Fiala-Min 2nd, something like that, especially if Minnesota wins a round or two, or maybe just NJ 1st for Min 1st-Fiala, but yeah, a pick this high just cannot be worth a player one year away from UFA. Holtz for Fiala + something else makes a lot of sense too, because he has a 3 year ELC and Minnesota has a 3 year window where the Parise/Suter buyouts are onerous.

I also like offer sheeting Fiala, which is a possibility because Minnesota cannot risk taking him to team-elected arbitration, and Fiala might not elect for arbitration himself, or if he does, I feel like there is a window in which to sign him to an offer sheet.
 

Setec Astronomy

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You just can't trade the 1st straight up for Fiala. You can maybe do something like NJ 1st-NJ 3rd for Min 1st-Fiala-Min 2nd, something like that, especially if Minnesota wins a round or two, or maybe just NJ 1st for Min 1st-Fiala, but yeah, a pick this high just cannot be worth a player one year away from UFA. Holtz for Fiala + something else makes a lot of sense too, because he has a 3 year ELC and Minnesota has a 3 year window where the Parise/Suter buyouts are onerous.

I also like offer sheeting Fiala, which is a possibility because Minnesota cannot risk taking him to team-elected arbitration, and Fiala might not elect for arbitration himself, or if he does, I feel like there is a window in which to sign him to an offer sheet.

He wouldn’t agree to an offer sheet of less than something that requires an unprotected first rounder next year. Devils can’t risk missing out on Bedard, Michcov, Fantili.
 

Monsieur Verdoux

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Yes Fiala would be awesome but not sure if its the best use of assets or best fit.
Id rather keep our 1st round pick then sign Nichushkin and Marchment and Lybushkin types.
Jirichek Nuke Niederrieder type players is > Fiala
I agree that the Devils need Nuke/Niederreiter type players, but they can do both things. They can trade Fiala and add one or two UFA wingers, especially if Fitzy can get rid of Zacha, Johnsson or even Tatar. The Devils need three lines that can score, so there are room for additions.

It would be luxury to have forward group such as this.

Sharangovich-Hughes-Bratt
Fiala-Hischier-Niederreiter
Nuke-Mercer-Holtz/Zetterlund
Wood-McLeod-Bastian

Maybe this lineup isn't the most realistic outcome, and Mercer is probably better as a winger than a center. But you probably get the idea.
 

PKs Broken Stick

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Are they able to negotiate a deal before owning his rights? If they can agree to a 7x7 deal, I'd trade a 1st easily for him.

That being said, what's the deal with Hellebuyck? Would be interested in him.
 

Monsieur Verdoux

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Are they able to negotiate a deal before owning his rights? If they can agree to a 7x7 deal, I'd trade a 1st easily for him.

That being said, what's the deal with Hellebuyck? Would be interested in him.
I think it depends on Guerin and his willingness to let other teams to negotiate with Fiala before a possible trade.
 

Guadana

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Are they able to negotiate a deal before owning his rights? If they can agree to a 7x7 deal, I'd trade a 1st easily for him.

That being said, what's the deal with Hellebuyck? Would be interested in him.
We should not trade our first if we wanna sign Fiala. Let’s trade Holtz for him and than draft Savoie by our first pick.
 

hidek91

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I really don't get this mentality at this point, and sorry I don't mean to single you out lol. But this team is already incredibly young and still has a few strong prospects coming up. Of course you can always use good prospects but at a certain point, which we are definitely at IMO, you have to start adding to that core with more veterans. And Fiala isn't even that old.

I just think this is how you get in a place where you're in a constant rebuild. I see so many posts about not wanting to commit to a player that's like 27-28, so we should sell them off get even younger. Then we suck the next yaear because those young guys aren't McDavid, and we end up looking to sell off the next 27-28 year old, and the cycle continues.

Of course you still have to be smart and not just hand out 8 year deals with massive cap hits to everyone, but there's a middle ground where we can commit to good players on reasonable terms to help insulate the young core we have.
I agree that in order to take the next step, the Devils need to change the balance of the veterans to young players in the lineup, however in the salary cap era, you can't reasonably build your core by adding sexy names (that aren't game changers, I'm talking Tavares/Panarin level). A lot of people here suggest making a splash with a big signing, however:

a) You need to commit a very significant portion of the salary cap to the given player, you add Meier/Fiala today and tomorrow you run out of cap space,
b) You need to potentially commit an asset that is very efficient in terms of relation between cap hit and quality,
c) And even if we are talking about 26 y. o. players, there's a very significant risk that they played their best hockey already. Not saying that they will be useless in a year or two but if we analyze the players that have been given huge 50M+ contracts, these contract were worse valuewise than their previous contracts and some of them have became straight up atrocious.

Of course the risk of 1st round pick busting altogether counterbalances points above to a degree but the point remains that the core has to be built via drafting (I think that we have partially done that so the future may not be that bleak). On top of that, smart UFA signings/bargain trades a'la Reinhart/K. Rooney/B. Boyle/J. Carter/Bennett, should round out the team and push Boqvists, Kuokkanens and Ty Smiths out of the lineup (unless they improve).

Also, the argument of being stuck in the permanent rebuild goes both ways. Sure, if New Jersey keeps giving roster spots to the fringe NHL players mentioned above, we'll never do well, however several failed rebuilds have failed (or been slowed down) because there have been attempts to accelerate them (vide Buffalo signing Okposo and Skinner, Edmonton giving up Barzal pick for Reinhart, Arizona trading a very high pick for Stepan and Raanta etc.).
 

Guttersniped

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Are they able to negotiate a deal before owning his rights? If they can agree to a 7x7 deal, I'd trade a 1st easily for him.

That being said, what's the deal with Hellebuyck? Would be interested in him.
It’s likely wouldn’t get a deal done with Fiala before draft.

They also would need to get Bratt’s deal done first as if they didn’t Fiala’s price would f*** up Bratt’s.

I would prefer finding a trade that didn’t involve our top assets but I would trade Holtz for Fiala. Not the 1st so much.

After watching Fitz’s presser, Fiala seems to go against we need to get “different types of player” up front. I would do Holtz and our 2022 2nd (37th). If they can get better, congrats to them.
 
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Oneiro

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Don't think Fiala is worth a top 5-7 pick. He'd help with the cycle but I think we need more versatility out of that spot. Scoring is not an issue with this team, everything else is.

I'd take it down to the wire on draft day, seeing how the board shakes out at our spot.
 

Captain3rdLine

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I like Fiala but I'm not trading #5 overall for a guy who could potentially play 1 season and walk. Unless MIN is adding or we can negotiate an extension beforehand I'm not comfortable doing that deal.

I would only consider adding Holtz if Wallstedt is on the table.
I don’t think anyone is saying or thinks we we should do if we’re not certain he will be signed. Wallstedt is also much more valuable than Holtz at this point.
 

ChicksDigTheTrap

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fter watching Fitz’s presser, Fiala seems to go against we need to get “different types of player” up front. I would do Holtz and our 2022 2nd (37th). If they can get better, congrats to them.
Agree. I finally got to listen to the Fitz presser yesterday and I came away thinking the team would not have an interest in a player like Fiala. I believe Fitz used the "complimentary" when describing the type of player he was targeting and mentioned "heavier" type of players.

From listening to the report on TSN, it was a guess the Devils would consider trading pick 5 for Fiala. Given how much Fitz discusses long term cap issues I think in the very small chance the Devils traded the pick it would be for a player with a "value contract".
 

Triumph

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It’s likely wouldn’t get a deal done with Fiala before draft.

They also would need to get Bratt’s deal done first as if they didn’t Fiala’s price would f*** up Bratt’s.

I would prefer finding a trade that didn’t involve our top assets but I would trade Holtz for Fiala. Not the 1st so much.

After watching Fitz’s presser, Fiala seems to go against we need to get “different types of player” up front. I would do Holtz and our 2022 2nd (37th). If they can get better, congrats to them.

This would be an immediate trade and sign deal, there's no way the deal is done without a contract that's already been negotiated. Fiala and Bratt don't have the same representation so unfortunately that scuttles any sort of co-negotiation.

I think Holtz is more valuable than the 1st round pick to Minnesota because Holtz is 20 and has 3 years of his ELC left, he is in the absolute perfect position for them. With the relative weakness of this draft, the player selected at 5 or 6 may not be ready to contribute for 2 years, and Minnesota's 3 years in the wilderness will have mostly passed.
 
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