Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

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Guttersniped

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Listening to the podcast, the impression that I got was “How can you blame the assistants but think the head coach was good?”

That impression may be colored because I generally agree with that question. If Recchi is so bad at running the PP then Ruff should step in and change it. Either give it to someone else or fix it himself and hand it back to Recchi.

The fact that nothing changed much on the PP suggests Ruff approved of the PP but Recchi takes the fall while Ruff gets praised. I could see how that might rub people outside the organization the wrong way.

It’s f***ing Recchi’s job. He failed at his job as the guy who specifically runs the Power Play.

If Ruff took the PP away and tried to fixed it, then Recchi still should have been fired because he sucks at his job, which is running the power play.
 

OmNomNom

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When was the last time a team's assistant coaches got fired/let go but the head coach stayed? Doesn't seem like it happens very often.
it doesn't happen often, which is why i really do think that onus is as much on the HC as it is on the assistant

i get that fitz is the one who hires and fires. but i still don't see how a HC can sit idle while the PP is complete shit - he has to have some responsibility
 
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Guttersniped

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I've already said I like Lyubushkin, he gets decent results, he can play on my third pair any time. 3 years at 2.5M? Yeah, that would work. 4 years at 3.5? Absolutely not. GMs cannot mistake rare skill sets for valuable ones, and while this sort of RHD hit machine who plays a decent defensive game is somewhat rare, it doesn't mean it is valuable.

Also should be noted that you as a watch-the-games enthusiast liked him so much that you mentioned him one (1) time before he was traded to Toronto. And now you love him! You had so many other strong assessments of totally marginal Toronto players - Justin Holl, Andreas Johnsson - that it makes me think you watch Toronto a lot. Guess who else pays attention to Toronto way more? The bulk of NHL GMs. The real undervalued players in Toronto tend to be players being dumped on by the media, which a Lyubushkin type almost never will be.

Should we regularly list all lesser known players we might like on the team now, so if at a later date they get more attention and some people, for some f***ing reason, don’t believe we liked them, we’ll have a substantial paper trail?

Some people here like Lyubushkin more than you, including me. He did much better when the Coyotes were much more functional. People can like all sorts of random players.

He’s not going to get that massive a pay day at all, the same way that Kulikov wasn’t a shocking bargain. A good part of what you pay for offensive production even with defensemen. He scores almost no goals. The Leafs should be able to swing it if they’re interested.
 

Guttersniped

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When was the last time a team's assistant coaches got fired/let go but the head coach stayed? Doesn't seem like it happens very often.
Gee, the one time that comes to mind for some reason is when Recchi and the other assistants were all fired in Pittsburgh after the 2019-20 season. He was the PP coach there for two years. He never did it before.

I’ve mentioned this a bunch of times so I’m not going to bother to list other examples that people promptly ignore so they can act like this is super weird of bad GMing or whatever.
 

Devils731

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It’s f***ing Recchi’s job. He failed at his job as the guy who specifically runs the Power Play.

If Ruff took the PP away and tried to fixed it, then Recchi still should have been fired because he sucks at his job, which is running the power play.
Yes, Ruff and/or the team should have told Recchi major changes were needed in the PP and if those didn’t work then others should have become involved in the PP preparation.

How can the team stress this collaborative process but then say Recchi is the only guy responsible for the PP so all the stink is on him and everyone who stood around and watched the PP die were powerless to help?

I bet Recchi wishes someone had stepped in with a great PP idea, helped him turn the PP around, and maybe saved his job.
 

MadDevil

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Gee, the one time that comes to mind for some reason is when Recchi and the other assistants were all fired in Pittsburgh after the 2019-20 season. He was the PP coach there for two years. He never did it before.

I’ve mentioned this a bunch of times so I’m not going to bother to list other examples that people promptly ignore so they can act like this is super weird of bad GMing or whatever.

So it's happened twice with the same guy? Jesus.:laugh:

I pretty much only give a shit about the Devils so I honestly had no clue when the last time was.
 

Captain3rdLine

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Yes, Ruff and/or the team should have told Recchi major changes were needed in the PP and if those didn’t work then others should have become involved in the PP preparation.

How can the team stress this collaborative process but then say Recchi is the only guy responsible for the PP so all the stink is on him and everyone who stood around and watched the PP die were powerless to help?

I bet Recchi wishes someone had stepped in with a great PP idea, helped him turn the PP around, and maybe saved his job.
A great pp idea wasn’t gonna turn the pp around. And somebody stepping would mean his job is gone. Not saved. He was the pp coach. If somebody in takes over his job he’s done.
 

SteveCangialosi123

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So what does a head coach actually do then? Take the team out for pizza and ice cream after the game?

I guess he gets credit for our number one overalls pick being decent players? Wow how dooooooes he do it?
He gets credit for one of the better 5 on 5 offenses in the NHL. The powerplay was unfortunately one of the worst in the NHL.
 

Captain3rdLine

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So what does a head coach actually do then? Take the team out for pizza and ice cream after the game?

I guess he gets credit for our number one overalls pick being decent players? Wow how dooooooes he do it?
5v5 systems (most if not all)
Lineup decisions
Run the forwards during games
Make decisions on the bench (eg. Timeout, challenges, pull the goalie)
Manage players (very important)
Manage practices (also important, likely with help though)
And probably more I’ve forgotten

Pretty much the only things they certainly don’t do are the things another coach is hired to do. For example Recchi was hired to run the powerplay (others: penalty kill, goalie coach, skills coach, video coach too although I’m sure most head coaches are fairly involved in this as well).

Head coach is definitely the most important but teams hire guys to run other aspects because the head coach can’t do it all.
 

Devils731

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A great pp idea wasn’t gonna turn the pp around. And somebody stepping would mean his job is gone. Not saved. He was the pp coach. If somebody in takes over his job he’s done.
He was gone anyway. A good idea that turned the PP around could have saved him and would have helped the team regardless of Recchi’s job.

A better PP idea would have made a better PP, they don’t materialize out of nowhere. Doing the same bad idea for 82 games was bad for the team team and the players.

Again, how does the team have a collaborative process but Recchi can’t take any advice or criticism for the shitty PP after half a season?

I mean it’s absolutely nuts that you think a head coach and/or GM should see one of the worst PPs and do nothing about it to avoid stepping on toes.
 
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Captain3rdLine

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Why ? They sucked at their job . ( mostly Recchi ) So to keep all the old boys happy no one can ever get fired ?

I haven’t had ruffled feathers for a long time .
I think you misunderstood this.

He was joking saying that other teams are only upset because they don’t get to play against Recchi’s terrible powerplay anymore.
 

Jersey Fan 12

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Or: get rid of the wasted money on Johnsson and Tatar and get $8 million. Either or both could go to Arizona to get them over the cap floor. If not? Send some rebuilding team a B-level prospect or two to take the final years of their contracts.

Trading Zacha -- who does have trade value -- creates another $2.5 million in cap room. Trading Kuokkanen would free up another nearly $2 million. The Devils could replace these 4 Fs with Zetterlund, Foote, Holtz and an interior UFA F like Nichushkin, Niederreiter or Marchment and go into 2022-23 both better and cheaper than this year's version.

The Devils have no RHD anywhere in their system remotely like Lyubushkin except for (hopefully) McCarthy, who is two years (at least) away from competing for an NHL gig. RD is a different position than LD.

The only way the Devils are acquiring a "top forward" north of $6 million is if Tkachuk becomes available out of Calgary, which would seem unlikely. NJ is not getting involved in the sweepstakes for Forsberg or Gaudreau. Maybe they sign a Nichushkin or Niederreiter in the $5 million range.

After the 2022-23 season, the Devils are certainly shedding the Benier contract, and maybe Graves.

As for next year, they have plenty of cap room for all of their main needs of: a 1A goalie, a 3-RD, and an interior/power F -- and then still have room left over if they want to upgrade at 3C.

Appreciate the time you put in watching prospects but where do you see trade value for players like Zacha, Tatar and even to a lesser extent Anders Johnsson - who did have a bit of a bounce back after last season?

The Devils were one of the league's worst teams and those players didn't have much success.

To steal a line from the late football coach Bill Walsh when he first took over the 49ers, "If you can't play here you probably can't play in the league."
 
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Captain3rdLine

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He was gone anyway. A good idea that turned the PP around could have saved him and would have helped the team regardless of Recchi’s job.

A better PP idea would have made a better PP, they don’t materialize out of nowhere. Doing the same bad idea for 82 games was bad for the team team and the players.

Again, how does the team have a collaborative process but Recchi can’t take any advice or criticism for the shitty PP after half a season?

I mean it’s absolutely nuts that you think a head coach and/or GM should see one of the worst PPs and do nothing about it to avoid stepping on toes.
One good idea doesn’t turn a power play around what don’t you understand about that. To noticeably change it you would have to step in put a lot of work in, change key elements and practice for weeks to actually change it enough to the point where you significantly improve it. And then you have to continuously manage and adjust it. And it’s not just stepping on toes. You’re essentially firing Recchi (who is well liked) over halfway through a lost season. And you’re ignoring that the reason why they have another coach there to run the powerplay is because the head coach has lot of stuff on his plate to handle already and doesn’t really have time to focus on the pp.

They also didn’t run the same pp for 82 games. Many things changed about it throughout the course of the year.

If we were a team actually competing for a playoff spot after 60 games and the powerplay has been terrible then maybe we can talk about doing something more but even then you don’t see teams do that. Recchi was hired as the powerplay coach. You pretty much either fire him or let him do his job and try to figure it out.
 
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Devils731

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One good idea doesn’t turn a power play around what don’t you understand about that. To noticeably change it you would have to step in put a lot of work in, change key elements and practice for weeks to actually change it enough to the point where you significantly improve it. And it’s not just stepping on toes. You’re essentially firing Recchi (who is well liked) over halfway through a lost season.

They also didn’t run the same pp for 82 games. Many things changed about it throughout the course of the year.

If we were a team actually competing for a playoff spot after 60 games and the powerplay has been terrible then maybe we can talk about doing something more but even then you don’t see teams do that. Recchi was hired as the powerplay coach. You pretty much either fire him or let him do his job and try to figure it out.
Well we wouldn’t want too much work or effort put into the PP, better to let it continue to be horrible.

Why is the PP the only process in the organization that apparently isn’t collaborative?

The Devils PP had no impactful changes over the season. The slow drop pass featured all year. The skate it in the zone and then dump it featured all year. The lay it off to a guy standing still at the blue line featured most of the year. Pass it around 3 guys up top and ignore the other 2 was featured all year. Those all didn’t work, they never worked, and should have been abandoned or modified.

We’ve seen Devils PPs make significant positive changes mid-season, example moving Hall to his true wing side and implementing a drop pass. It’s not impossible nor unwise to stop doing something awful.

I don’t care about Recchi’s job but letting him struggle all year with no help didn’t make him look good, help him, nor save his job. Letting him flounder all year was the worst scenario for the team and him.
 

Devils731

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“Having time to focus on the power play gives the Devils more opportunities to find the recipe for power play success in the second half of their season.

"We're pulling out all the strings to try to find what's going to work," Ruff said. "Whether one guy has to shift from one unit to another but we're going to find something that works, and works on a consistent basis."”

——————————

How can Ruff say “We”? Any help from Ruff or anyone else would be akin to firing Recchi. I guess Ruff was letting us all know Recchi was done in December.

Also, using all that practice time to try and find something that works is a waste of time as teams should use practice time for implementing PP changes. It’s too hard.
 
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Captain3rdLine

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Well we wouldn’t want too much work or effort put into the PP, better to let it continue to be horrible.

Why is the PP the only process in the organization that apparently isn’t collaborative?

The Devils PP had no impactful changes over the season. The slow drop pass featured all year. The skate it in the zone and then dump it featured all year. The lay it off to a guy standing still at the blue line featured most of the year. Pass it around 3 guys up top and ignore the other 2 was featured all year. Those all didn’t work, they never worked, and should have been abandoned or modified.

We’ve seen Devils PPs make significant positive changes mid-season, example moving Hall to his true wing side and implementing a drop pass. It’s not impossible nor unwise to stop doing something awful.

I don’t care about Recchi’s job but letting him struggle all year with no help didn’t make him look good, help him, nor save his job. Letting him flounder all year was the worst scenario for the team and him.
Lol that first sentence is exactly it. The reason they hire someone to run the pp is so that they have someone who can put all the necessary effort in to the job and focus on the pp. The head coach already has too much to handle. So they hire someone. As I said it would already take so much work for someone stepping into change it significantly and then it would continue as they continuously have to manage and adjust it for different situations and teams. It’s a full job and why they’re paying someone hundreds of thousands of dollars to run it.

The head coach has even more to deal with though so it isn’t fair to expect Ruff to step in and take on someone else’s job on top of everything he’s already responsible for as the head coach.

Everything can be collaborative but that doesn’t mean certain people aren’t responsible for specific tasks. Ruff might very well have tried to help with the pp and offer some suggestions and advice but there is only so much he can do. Recchi is the powerplay coach hired and paid to run the powerplay.

The only thing that could’ve saved Recchi’s job or made him look good is him figuring it out and improving the powerplay. Which he wasn’t able to do.

There’s nothing that could’ve saved the devils as they were well out of the playoff race.


You’re also delusional if you think the devils didn’t make any noticeable changes. They may not have worked out but they did things like the Hall thing you mentioned. Hughes and Bratt were both tried on different sides in multiple occasions. I don’t think Hughes spent enough time on his true wing side which is where I like him but he was there for a bit. They tried lots of different players in different spots.
 
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Guttersniped

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Yes, Ruff and/or the team should have told Recchi major changes were needed in the PP and if those didn’t work then others should have become involved in the PP preparation.

How can the team stress this collaborative process but then say Recchi is the only guy responsible for the PP so all the stink is on him and everyone who stood around and watched the PP die were powerless to help?

I bet Recchi wishes someone had stepped in with a great PP idea, helped him turn the PP around, and maybe saved his job.

Ruff discussed how they turning to collaboration when it was a trash fire early on, maybe that led to the minor improvement. Ruff said they were listening to everyone for suggestions at some dire point.

I still don’t see how that saves Recchi’s job when he was supposed to come in and help the PP himself. AS THE PP COACH HIRED TO MAKE IT BETTER NOT WORSE.

I’ve never heard so many nonsensical defenses of a guy who at no point in four years has had much success as an PP coach. He just might not be very good at it.

Lot’s of people are trying to hold Ruff accountable for not doing Recchi’s job. That’s not how jobs work, IMHO.

Yes, there clearly obvious reasons for Ruff being fired too due to results but he’s getting another chance. You might not agree with that decision. Reasonable.

Not agreeing with Recchi being fired for results? Not reasonable. He doesn’t even have the 6 goalies as a excuse.

PP coaches have been specifically fired when a team’s PP has declined. New PP coaches are brought in to improve it, not have their handheld while other people come up with all the answers.
 

Devils731

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Ruff discussed how they turning to collaboration when it was a trash fire early on, maybe that led to the minor improvement. Ruff said they were listening to everyone for suggestions at some dire point.

I still don’t see how that saves Recchi’s job when he was supposed to come in and help the PP himself. AS THE PP COACH HIRED TO MAKE IT BETTER NOT WORSE.

I’ve never heard so many nonsensical defenses of a guy who at no point in four years has had much success as an PP coach. He just might not be very good at it.

Lot’s of people are trying to hold Ruff accountable for not doing Recchi’s job. That’s not how jobs work, IMHO.

Yes, there clearly obvious reasons for Ruff being fired too due to results but he’s getting another chance. You might not agree with that decision. Reasonable.

Not agreeing with Recchi being fired for results? Not reasonable. He doesn’t even have the 6 goalies as a excuse.

PP coaches have been specifically fired when a team’s PP has declined. New PP coaches are brought in to improve it, not have their handheld while other people come up with all the answers.
The argument is that Recchi and Ruff both should be fired; not that Recchi shouldn’t be fired.

When did anyone defend Recchi? It’s an indictment on the entire coaching staff that the PP was this bad all season. The other people arguing are saying Ruff didn’t run the PP so he bears no responsibility.
 
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Captain3rdLine

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“Having time to focus on the power play gives the Devils more opportunities to find the recipe for power play success in the second half of their season.

"We're pulling out all the strings to try to find what's going to work," Ruff said. "Whether one guy has to shift from one unit to another but we're going to find something that works, and works on a consistent basis."”

——————————

How can Ruff say “We”? Any help from Ruff or anyone else would be akin to firing Recchi. I guess Ruff was letting us all know Recchi was done in December.

Also, using all that practice time to try and find something that works is a waste of time as teams should use practice time for implementing PP changes. It’s too hard.
I’m not even sure what you’re saying here.
Are you suggesting Ruff is gonna come out and blame Recchi. I also have not suggested Ruff didn’t or shouldn’t have helped Recchi. Just that there’s only so much he can do as it’s a full job that requires a ton of time and effort and Recchi was hired to run it.

And we likely refers to the coaching staff or more likely the team as a whole. It is a collaborative effort but at the end of the day Recchi is hired to run the powerplay and when the powerplay is terrible it’s on him.
 

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Ruff should shoulder some blame because he's the head coach. But it wasn't specifically his job to run the PP. It was Recchi's. He failed miserably and should have been fired.

That's not saying Ruff did a great job, or shouldn't have also been fired. But there's more reasons/excuses for him not being fired than for Recchi. The kids, who are the key to future success, all did well under him. He was forced to choose between some pretty shitty options with Blackwood being hurt and/or not playing well and Bernier's hip exploding. And I'm not going to kill him for "ruining" Daws when he was the best option we had at the time. Any coach who wants to keep his job is going to start the guy he feels gives them the best chance at winning, even if the season is lost.
 
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Bleedred

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Ruff should shoulder some blame because he's the head coach. But it wasn't specifically his job to run the PP. It was Recchi's. He failed miserably and should have been fired.

That's not saying Ruff did a great job, or shouldn't have also been fired. But there's more reasons/excuses for him not being fired than for Recchi. The kids, who are the key to future success, all did well under him. He was forced to choose between some pretty shitty options with Blackwood being hurt and/or not playing well and Bernier's hip exploding. And I'm not going to kill him for "ruining" Daws when he was the best option we had at the time. Any coach who wants to keep his job is going to start the guy he feels gives them the best chance at winning, even if the season is lost.
I stopped blaming him for Daws, as much as Fitz for keeping Daws up.

Daws should have been sent back long before he was and we should have rolled with Gillies/Hammond. I don't care how f***ing bad they were.

That's more on the GM than on Ruff.

I always thought that the point in acquiring Hammond was so we could send Daws the f*** back, but it was just so we could keep Gillies completely off the ice.
 

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Should we regularly list all lesser known players we might like on the team now, so if at a later date they get more attention and some people, for some f***ing reason, don’t believe we liked them, we’ll have a substantial paper trail?

Some people here like Lyubushkin more than you, including me. He did much better when the Coyotes were much more functional. People can like all sorts of random players.

He’s not going to get that massive a pay day at all, the same way that Kulikov wasn’t a shocking bargain. A good part of what you pay for offensive production even with defensemen. He scores almost no goals. The Leafs should be able to swing it if they’re interested.
Please fax file the memo with the court and follow up with two hard copies so a file stamped copy can be returned to the board. Don’t forget extra copies for each party to be served.
 
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