Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

[Captain3rdLine]

I’m skeptical Fitz is hearing from the analytics people or ownership the team has to score more to improve significantly. I’m contrast I’m pretty confident they are having handwringing internal meetings about goaltending and team defense. Why would the team expend assets when they know they have to address the goaltending from “square one” as Fitz said? Fix the goalies, sign Bratt, make a decision on Severson and if you are keeping him then sign him, and then if assets and the cap allow you can add a luxury winger. There will be good wings reaching the end of their deals over the next couple of years that I’m not worried any one specific guy is a must have. I’d rather get Meier when he shakes loose in SJ after next year for example. I also have little interest in paying above market to keep some guy acquired at the end of his RFA years who is looking primarily to cash in. Any guy acquired in trade would have to come with an extension and I can’t imagine that idea is lost on the team.

Fair points. But as I keep saying the only way they trade for him is if they’re extremely confident that they will be able to extend him if it’s not already agree by the time the trade happens. They aren’t gonna trade for him unless they’re like 99% percent confident they’ll resign him and won’t lose him in a year. That’s just not gonna happen.

So people should stop bringing that up. Nobody here is talking about trading for him to possibly lose him in a year.

 

[Guttersniped]

Brannstrom had done very well since being drafted. Better than expected even though he was taken 15th overall. It wasn’t about other guys it was because he had done very well and had become very highly regarded as a prospect.

And that isn’t true at all. The Mark Stone trade wasn’t contingent on that and it didn’t happen immediately. It happened 11 days later so they obviously felt good about their chances and worked hard to get it done right away. The circumstances are different. There’s a ton of opportunity still to sign Fiala to a longer term extension right now and before he even gets to arbitration as an RFA. If Fiala goes to arbitration now and signs a one year deal then it could be similar in 9-10 months.


That’s ridiculous. Suggesting a 25, turning 26 year old point per game top line winger isn’t worth a top 6 pick. Are you kidding me. Fiala is better than probably 80% of players taken 4-6 ever will be. If you’re picking in that range you’re hoping to get a player of Fiala’s level but more often than not you won’t.

I’m not even sure what Marek’s reporting has to do this or what you’re saying. Using Marek’s reporting as anchoring? Huh? Can you explain that? Doesn’t make much sense does it? I didn’t take anything from that Marek report other than that the Devils like and may be interested in Fiala.

I don’t care what you or anyone else think he’s worth, we aren’t here to make the Minnesota Wild’s dreams come true.

I’m using the Mark Stone draft as a comparison.

Brandstrom was in the AHL just like Holtz in his D+2 year. He played 2 NHL games instead of 9 that season but was moved at TDL.

Our 2nd would be 27 spots earlier than the one they got.

The player the Sens got was actually just a Cap dump and left for Sweden the next year.

If there’s another minor piece to be added, then sure. 2023 3rd or something. A minor cheap player off our roster.

Holtz is acceptable to trade here because we’re trading a winger for a winger. If they wanted Smith I would trade him but I don’t see them wanting him. They have zero need for LD.

I get that they would want a center but we don’t have any to trade other than Mercer, not particularly interested in trading him for a winger. Not trading our 2022 or 2023 1st plus.

You want to win trades, which means giving up minor pieces while scoring an impact player. Plenty of trades are examples of that. Fiala is not enough for me to give up “whatever it takes”.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

You just can't trade the 1st straight up for Fiala. You can maybe do something like NJ 1st-NJ 3rd for Min 1st-Fiala-Min 2nd, something like that, especially if Minnesota wins a round or two, or maybe just NJ 1st for Min 1st-Fiala, but yeah, a pick this high just cannot be worth a player one year away from UFA. Holtz for Fiala + something else makes a lot of sense too, because he has a 3 year ELC and Minnesota has a 3 year window where the Parise/Suter buyouts are onerous.

I also like offer sheeting Fiala, which is a possibility because Minnesota cannot risk taking him to team-elected arbitration, and Fiala might not elect for arbitration himself, or if he does, I feel like there is a window in which to sign him to an offer sheet.

You do realize that the compensation on an offer sheet in the range Fiala would likely be in is a our 1st(unprotected), 2nd, and 3rd round picks next year. He is easily worth a pick in the 5-7 range if he is being extended long term and the offer sheet could very likely end up costing more as well as possibly being a more expensive contract.

 

[devilsblood]

No way in hell. No thanks

Agree, we kept Ruff in large part because of the supportive culture he has fostered amongst the young players.. E Kane puts that supportive culture very much at risk.


Kane makes sense for a veteran team looking to win a championship, not a very young team trying to claw itself out of the basement.

 

[LeedsMonster]

If I'm doing a deal with Minny I'm trying to do something around Greenway and Dumba. I think it's more likely the try to move salary to retain Fiala than look to trade him. That leaves a few decent players with upside available who wouldn't cost our 1st or Holtz. We have some nice cheap peices to swap and our 2nd is a pretty high one.

 

[devilsblood]

Just because the goaltending was undermining the team play that doesn’t mean the team is good enough. The players are much better than our record but we still need better players.

I’ve always been all about keeping the draft pick but at this point if there’s a deal for a good player that makes sense it should be looked at and considered. I think this is a fair debate to have. If we were to acquire Fiala he would probably be our best winger and goalscorer. And we need at least one more really good winger going forward IMO.
Maybe Fiala makes sense, maybe he doesn’t but he’s a damn good player who probably could and maybe will command something along the lines of a top 6 pick.

I wouldn't have responded if I didn't think the debate was worthwhile.

But we do have a winger in Bratt who is very good, and is going to get paid. We also have 2 centers who are getting paid. We also have a D-man who we just gave a big contract too. And we have 2 more top 4 d-men who we either pay, or will have to replace next offseason.

And oh yeah, we need to figure out the goalie situation.

So is Fiala a good player? He definitely seems to be, and he also appears to be in the prime age range. But priority #1 is goalie. Priority #2 imo is making sure our D is in good shape long term. Adding a high end winger is just low on the priority list imo. Thus giving up significant assets for a winger who we would then have to sign to a relatively big contract doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I don’t care what you or anyone else think he’s worth, we aren’t here to make the Minnesota Wild’s dreams come true.

I’m using the Mark Stone draft as a comparison.

Brandstrom was in the AHL just like Holtz in his D+2 year. He played 2 NHL games instead of 9 that season but was moved at TDL.

Our 2nd would be 27 spots earlier than the one they got.

The player the Sens got was actually just a Cap dump and left for Sweden the next year.

If there’s another minor piece to be added, then sure. 2023 3rd or something. A minor cheap player off our roster.

Holtz is acceptable to trade here because we’re trading a winger for a winger. If they wanted Smith I would trade him but I don’t see them wanting him. They have zero need for LD.

I get that they would want a center but we don’t have any to trade other than Mercer, not particularly interested in trading him for a winger. Not trading our 2022 or 2023 1st plus.

You want to win trades, which means giving up minor pieces while scoring an impact player. Plenty of trades are examples of that. Fiala is not enough for me to give up “whatever it takes”.

I’m telling you first that the Stone trade isn’t a great comparable.

I’m also not talking about giving up whatever it takes. But a pick in the 5-7 range is a fair deal for a player of Fiala’s caliber if he is getting a reasonable long-term extension. The Stone one is pretty different. He had already gone through arbitration and was about to be a UFA and Ottawa had pretty much been forced to the end of the rope and really had no other options. Minnesota could realistically end up there but they aren’t close to that yet and I don’t think they will. I think you’re also underestimating how good of a prospect Brannstrom was viewed as at the time. He was seen as better than Holtz right now from my memory and there were a lot of people that were very excited about him. Maybe I’m overrating but I do remember him getting quite a bit of hype.

 

[MadDevil]

Some people won't like this, but if he has learned a lesson and has gotten his personal life in order I wouldn't mind a 2-3 year deal to line him up with Jacky boy. Big risk admittedly

I love Jack, but why would Kane choose playing with him over playing with Connor McDavid? How much are you planning on paying Kane to convince him to sign here over other likely better options?

Not that I want us to go after him anyway.

 

[devilsblood]

I think signing Nino to a 3-4 year deal makes more sense then trading for Fiala.

 

[LeedsMonster]

I love Jack, but why would Kane choose playing with him over playing with Connor McDavid? How much are you planning on paying Kane to convince him to sign here over other likely better options?

Not that I want us to go after him anyway.

I think it's a matter of salary in Edmonton. I think they stick with Yamamoto and try to add at G and D. As for what to pay him, if he took 2 years I'd be fine with $7- $7.5. That still leaves $1.5- 2M of Subbans expiring to help look for a 3D. Like I said, it would be contingent on Kane staying on track and keeping his shit together.

I think signing Nino to a 3-4 year deal makes more sense then trading for Fiala.

I agree, he's more of a fit stylistically. Fiala is obviously the better player, but fit matters too imo

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I think it's a matter of salary in Edmonton. I think they stick with Yamamoto and try to add at G and D. As for what to pay him, if he took 2 years I'd be fine with $7- $7.5. That still leaves $1.5- 2M of Subbans expiring to help look for a 3D. Like I said, it would be contingent on Kane staying on track and keeping his shit together.


I agree, he's more of a fit stylistically. Fiala is obviously the better player, but fit matters too imo

I would expect Edmonton will put considerable effort into attempting to resign Kane considering how good of a fit he’s been and how well he’s done there.

Not sure what you mean by sticking with Yamamoto. He isn’t on Kane’s level and hasn’t been playing with Mcdavid.

 

[LeedsMonster]

I would expect Edmonton will put considerable effort into attempting to resign Kane considering how good of a fit he’s been and how well’s done.

Not sure what you mean by sticking with Yamamoto. He isn’t on Kane’s level and hasn’t been playing with Mcdavid.

Isn't Yamamoto an RFA

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Isn't Yamamoto an RFA

Yes but he’s not nearly as important or as good as Kane.

 

[Unknown Caller]

We all know goaltending is the primary issue, but you make the move for Fiala every single day. Niederreiter will already be 30 at the start of next season and he isn’t remotely the player Fiala is. You make the trade for Fiala and kick the offense into turbo gear so you can become a contender. Nino is a nice veteran piece, but that’s not going to make a huge difference when you’re up against the big boys in May.

The playoffs need to be a foregone conclusion next year. Goaltending is obviously a mandatory fix, but this team isn’t going to separate from the pack until you start making moves for players of Fiala’s caliber.

 

[LeedsMonster]

Yes but he’s not nearly as important or as good as Kane.

I agree, but he's younger, will likely cost half as much, and allows them to allocate salary to G and D. Maybe you're right though, maybe they try to move salary around to retain him

 

[Zippy316]

I think signing Nino to a 3-4 year deal makes more sense then trading for Fiala.

I think there’s room to do both given them Devils move Zacha and Johnsson this off-season.

Johnsson to Arizona after his July 1st bonus makes a ton of sense. Zacha is the type of player some team is going to hope they can get another level out of too.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I agree, but he's younger, will likely cost half as much, and allows them to allocate salary to G and D. Maybe you're right though, maybe they try to move salary around to retain him

I can’t imagine they’ll just let him walk after how well he’s done.

 

[Zippy316]

We all know goaltending is the primary issue, but you make the move for Fiala every single day. Niederreiter will already be 30 at the start of next season and he isn’t remotely the player Fiala is. You make the trade for Fiala and kick the offense into turbo gear so you can become a contender. Nino is a nice veteran piece, but that’s not going to make a huge difference when you’re up against the big boys in May.

The playoffs need to be a foregone conclusion next year. Goaltending is obviously a mandatory fix, but this team isn’t going to separate from the pack until you start making moves for players of Fiala’s caliber.

If Fiala doesn’t happen, I think Niederreiter is a start. Maybe another forward too if it makes sense.

If the Devils do turn things around and look set for a playoff run by next trade deadline, then they almost assuredly bolster the team with some size and physicality.

I think getting rid of Johnsson/Zacha, Wood returning for the full year, and then adding Niederreiter, Zetterlund, and hopefully a physical defensive RD in the off-season would be enough for the season.

 

[NJDfan86]

We all know goaltending is the primary issue, but you make the move for Fiala every single day. Niederreiter will already be 30 at the start of next season and he isn’t remotely the player Fiala is. You make the trade for Fiala and kick the offense into turbo gear so you can become a contender. Nino is a nice veteran piece, but that’s not going to make a huge difference when you’re up against the big boys in May.

The playoffs need to be a foregone conclusion next year. Goaltending is obviously a mandatory fix, but this team isn’t going to separate from the pack until you start making moves for players of Fiala’s caliber.

If your expectation that the playoffs need to be a foregone conclusion next year I fail to see how Fiala is the piece that gets you there.

 

[RSeen]

Some people won't like this, but if he has learned a lesson and has gotten his personal life in order I wouldn't mind a 2-3 year deal to line him up with Jacky boy. Big risk admittedly

He has continually shown he hasn't. 2-3 years is far too much, keep him away from our young players.

 

[LeedsMonster]

He has continually shown he hasn't. 2-3 years is far too much, keep him away from our young players.

I think an extensive interview process would have to be involved, but I can see the logic in your point.

 

[RSeen]

I'm not a huge fan of trading Holtz either, but someone like Fiala makes a ton of sense. If you look at the Wild's cap situation, Holtz is extremely valuable to them on an ELC for three years (while they are paying hefty cap penalties on Suter/Parise). If the Devils can get Fiala for little more than Holtz because of the Wild's situation, they have to seriously consider that.

I would keep the 2022 1st out of it if Holtz is on the table. Plus I think Holtz would be the primary target for the Wild because of the recapture penalties anyways. Holtz + Kuokkannen + Devils 2022 2nd would probably be my best offer. I would also expect a couple second/third round picks from the Devils trading away Zacha/Johnsson as well to make up for trading a high second.

The only complications would really be long-term and short-term salary outlook. If the Devils make this trade and keep Bratt, they would have to dump at minimum two of Johnsson, Zacha, or Tatar.

That is far too much. Given the age difference and the season Holtz just had, straight up is fair. Fiala is one year from UFA.

Johnsson, Zacha and Tatar will all be gone after next year.

 

[Unknown Caller]

If your expectation that the playoffs need to be a foregone conclusion next year I fail to see how Fiala is the piece that gets you there.

Because he’s a very good hockey player in his prime who pushes the offense closer to the truly elite teams in the league? Not that complicated.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Count me as another thinking another small playmaker is not what we should be spending assets like that on. Good player, not the most critical piece to be throwing value at.

 

[RSeen]

I think an extensive interview process would have to be involved, but I can see the logic in your point.

It doesn't really matter at this point, what will an interview tell you? Everywhere he has gone, he has been hated and been a distraction. I'm not one of those people who will over emphasize culture, but there is a level of importance to it. Kane is not worth damaging it and being a distraction.