Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

[PKs Broken Stick]

Don't think Fiala is worth a top 5-7 pick. He'd help with the cycle but I think we need more versatility out of that spot. Scoring is not an issue with this team, everything else is.

I'd take it down to the wire on draft day, seeing how the board shakes out at our spot.

Scoring wasn't an issue because they didn't play any kind of defense. The games they somewhat tried to play better defense, they did struggle to score.

I like Fiala but I'm not trading #5 overall for a guy who could potentially play 1 season and walk. Unless MIN is adding or we can negotiate an extension beforehand I'm not comfortable doing that deal.

I would only consider adding Holtz if Wallstedt is on the table.

I don't think anyone said to trade the 1st for an unextended Fiala.

 

[devilsblood]

How did I not account for defense? All I said was the Devils can't afford anything else big. This is true. I'm not going to do all the math on the switches, what Siegenthaler might cost, etc. - the Devils can afford to add a big time forward and a goalie this off-season, but that's it, and they can't really afford big upgrades anywhere else on their roster without taking something away. But the ELCs they have and low-cost players are going to provide a lot of savings too. The Devils have $27M committed to 4 players in 2023-24, I have no worries at all about them figuring out how to put together a team with an addition of ~$7M at forward.

Even in 2023-24?

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

I would personally let the current status quo (except the goalie) play out - draft your player in the top 6, see what Holtz looks like next year, hope Hughes makes an appearance, see how the growth from the other young players plays out - and then make the big move after next year.

Like has been mentioned many times, it all depends on if they can agree to a deal. Also would depend on the cost. If you can get a Fiala for cheap you do it. Settling with just waiting forever will just be an endless rebuild. We need to capitalize on Hughes deal soon as we can. Wasting 4-5 years of it is not going to end up well. Also, there's the other factor with, you know, Hamilton. Would be nice to get 3-4 playoff seasons with him and not waste his entire contract being a bottom 5 team.

The entire idea of waiting it out and see how things play out is to identify who your core/key players are. It's obvious who that is now. Waiting beyond that is just wasting time and money.

And in case anyone has reading comprehension issues, I'm not saying we should just overpay for a bunch of complimentary players to try to push for the playoffs.

 

[Guttersniped]

Scoring wasn't an issue because they didn't play any kind of defense. The games they somewhat tried to play better defense, they did struggle to score.



I don't think anyone said to trade the 1st for an unextended Fiala.

Not sure he’s going to agree to be immediately extended on a very long term deal like some people keep saying here, unless we offer him something extravagant (and that does not make sense in terms of our internal cap). Other RFA trades didn’t work like that.

I assume we get to talk to his agent and get a sense if he’s willing to sign with us but it’s not like we will have any guarantee of term/AAV.

That’s why the trade value of unsigned RFAs is depressed.

Another reason is these guys would prefer to become a UFA again at younger age, unless the AAV is pretty high, so that’s why the deals are often shorter.

Are people willing to give up the same assets for a 4-5 year deal?

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Just tossing this out there to see peoples opinions .
Fiala vs. signing Forsberg or Gaudreau .
Saves having to give up assets but will likely cost more $$ cap .
Plus those two are older in age than Fiala and I see Fiala as a better fit than Gaudreau . Not sure who I’d prefer out of Fiala and Forsberg if age / cost / were equal.
Just asking out if the three which way would you go ?

I'd be super happy if Forsberg was a possibility. I think he'd be way too expensive though. Have 0 interest in Gaudreau.

 

[devilsblood]

Point goes.
We have an absolutely luxury of young left D to the point where we really shouldn’t be worried about losing Graves in a year.

Siegenthaler
Hughes
Bahl
Okhotiuk
Smith
Mukhammadullin
———— (next guys are unlikely to make NHL)
Misyul
Vukojevic

But looking at those 6 guys we will likely be more than fine and our probably trading at least one of them (smith maybe) as well as letting Graves (who hasn’t been that great) go. I was talking before about trading Graves this off-season but that might be a bit too risky because then we would basically be counting on Smith, Bahl and Okhotiuk behind Siegenthaler.

I agree with this point, at least in terms of giving Graves a significant deal. But I could see the need for a cheaper D oriented veteran option. All depends on what Bahl or OK, or even Shak, provide this season. If any of those 3 looks like a guy who can play solid defensive minutes then cool, insert Hughes into the lineup and call it a left side. But if they have meh seasons next year in 3rd pairing roles? Then I think we need to bring in that vet d-man I mention.

I really don't think Smith fits in. Set aside his ability to play in the NHL, which is very much in question, with Hughes, being an offensive oriented rookie, I just don't think Smith's style is conducive to protecting a guy like Hughes.

Is Smith a consideration in this trade?

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I agree with this point, at least in terms of giving Graves a significant deal. But I could see the need for a cheaper D oriented veteran option. All depends on what Bahl or OK, or even Shak, provide this season. If any of those 3 looks like a guy who can play solid defensive minutes then cool, insert Hughes into the lineup and call it a left side. But if they have meh seasons next year in 3rd pairing roles? Then I think we need to bring in that vet d-man I mention.

I really don't think Smith fits in. Set aside his ability to play in the NHL, which is very much in question, with Hughes, being an offensive oriented rookie, I just don't think Smith's style is conducive to protecting a guy like Hughes.

Is Smith a consideration in this trade?

I agree on Smith and someone else said Minnesota doesn’t have any need for LD.

And yes I agree with all that but I’m pretty confident that at least of one or two of those guys will have a good enough season that we don’t need to resign or even replace Graves. They literally outplayed Graves when they came up this season. Bahl and Okhotiuk literally just need to continue where they left off and Graves could literally end up as the 3LD at some point in the first 20-30 games this season.
I do think it is important to find a solid RD to play with them though this off-season.

 

[devilsblood]

When does Sieg's expect to get paid and what type of contract do we think he will get?

I agree on Smith and someone else said Minnesota doesn’t have any need for LD.

And yes I agree with all that but I’m pretty confident that at least of one or two of those guys will have a good enough season that we don’t need to resign or even replace Graves. They literally outplayed Graves when they came up this season. Bahl and Okhotiuk literally just need to continue where they left off and Graves could literally end up as the 3LD at some point in the first 20-30 games this season.
I do think it is important to find a solid RD to play with them though this off-season.

True, but at least on this point, solid defensive oriented 3rd pairing guys can be had fairly cheap.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

I agree with this point, at least in terms of giving Graves a significant deal. But I could see the need for a cheaper D oriented veteran option. All depends on what Bahl or OK, or even Shak, provide this season. If any of those 3 looks like a guy who can play solid defensive minutes then cool, insert Hughes into the lineup and call it a left side. But if they have meh seasons next year in 3rd pairing roles? Then I think we need to bring in that vet d-man I mention.

I really don't think Smith fits in. Set aside his ability to play in the NHL, which is very much in question, with Hughes, being an offensive oriented rookie, I just don't think Smith's style is conducive to protecting a guy like Hughes.

Is Smith a consideration in this trade?

I don't really think Smith has a future here either. Only way he does is if he gets super juiced and turns into Cale Makar (unlikely) or if every one of our d prospects bust, which would be an entirely different and BAD issue.

Okhotyuk
Bahl
Misyul
Muk
Vukojevic
Edwards

Surely a few of them will pan out right? I think Edwards does have a future btw as a depth guy at the very least. He looked quite good.

Also what's the deal with McCarthy? I didn't realize he already played 3 seasons at BU. He could prob slot into the 3rd RD spot when Subban leaves.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

When does Sieg's expect to get paid and what type of contract do we think he will get?

Obviously depends on how this season goes but if he plays at the same level I would say somewhere in the 4-5.5M range at 4-6 years. That seems reasonable to me for a guy that’s brings little to no offense but is very solid defensively. Maybe ends up at like 5 times 5.

I don't really think Smith has a future here either. Only way he does is if he gets super juiced and turns into Cale Makar (unlikely) or if every one of our d prospects bust, which would be an entirely different and BAD issue.

Okhotyuk
Bahl
Misyul
Muk
Vukojevic
Edwards

Surely a few of them will pan out right? I think Edwards does have a future btw as a depth guy at the very least. He looked quite good.

Also what's the deal with McCarthy? I didn't realize he already played 3 seasons at BU. He could prob slot into the 3rd RD spot when Subban leaves.

McCarthy seems to be a bit overrated by some fans in my opinion. Definitely don’t think he can just slot into the 3RD spot. Has some potential as a depth defensmen after some time in the AHL.

 

[SKNJD9]

Those bringing up the tougher player types it seems we'll be after, I agree that will be something we chase...but not with our #1 pick, unless someone line Tkachuk truly becomes available ( unlikely )

Go get Fiala if we can.

Fiala - Nico - ???/Sharangovich ( Zacha replacement/trade)
Bratt - Hughes - Sharangovich/Mercer

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Obviously depends on how this season goes but if he plays at the same level I would say somewhere in the 4-5.5M range at 4-6 years. That seems reasonable to me for a guy that’s brings little to no offense but is very solid defensively. Maybe ends up at like 5 times 5.

Adam Pelech got 8x5,75M, and he is definately a better defenseman than Siegenthaler and he also had much longer track record. I think Siegenthaler gets something around 4-4,5M.

About that Fiala rumour. Apparently it was Russo, not Marek, who brought up the Devils.

 

[devilsblood]

Also what's the deal with McCarthy? I didn't realize he already played 3 seasons at BU. He could prob slot into the 3rd RD spot when Subban leaves.

McCarthy seems to be a bit overrated by some fans in my opinion. Definitely don’t think he can just slot into the 3RD spot. Has some potential as a depth defensmen after some time in the AHL.

I'm not sure when the decision needs to be made for this offseason, but if he is not brought in then that says a lot about what the org thinks of him. Have to think if he has a future with the org he will be with Utica next season.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Are people willing to give up the same assets for a 4-5 year deal?

Depending on the cost, I would actually.

I'm not sure when the decision needs to be made for this offseason, but if he is not brought in then that says a lot about what the org thinks of him. Have to think if he has a future with the org he will be with Utica next season.

Agreed. I didn't realize how long he's been at BU already. If he isn't signed this offseason he's prob not in the future plans.

 

[devilsblood]

Scoring wasn't an issue because they didn't play any kind of defense. The games they somewhat tried to play better defense, they did struggle to score.

Those were games we were missing Hughes though. I know what you are saying, but not sure if those guys are truly representative.

 

[NJDfan86]

Not sure he’s going to agree to be immediately extended on a very long term deal like some people keep saying here, unless we offer him something extravagant (and that does not make sense in terms of our internal cap). Other RFA trades didn’t work like that.

I assume we get to talk to his agent and get a sense if he’s willing to sign with us but it’s not like we will have any guarantee of term/AAV.

That’s why the trade value of unsigned RFAs is depressed.

Another reason is these guys would prefer to become a UFA again at younger age, unless the AAV is pretty high, so that’s why the deals are often shorter.

Are people willing to give up the same assets for a 4-5 year deal?

Also, the premise of the discussion was around giving up our top 6 pick - Fiala’s agent is going to have a nice amount of leverage in that deal.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

McCarthy seems to be a bit overrated by some fans in my opinion. Definitely don’t think he can just slot into the 3RD spot. Has some potential as a depth defensmen after some time in the AHL.

I disagree. I think he could slot into 3 RD just fine. I'm not expecting anything huge from him. Just solid d-play with not too many minutes and some pk.

I'm not sure what you mean by overrated. I don't think anyone claimed he's the next Makar.

 

[SKNJD9]

Adam Pelech got 8x5,75M, and he is definately a better defenseman than Siegenthaler and he also had much longer track record. I think Siegenthaler gets something around 4-4,5M.

About that Fiala rumour. Apparently it was Russo, not Marek, who brought up the Devils.

 

[devilsblood]

I disagree. I think he could slot into 3 RD just fine. I'm not expecting anything huge from him. Just solid d-play with not too many minutes and some pk.

I'm not sure what you mean by overrated. I don't think anyone claimed he's the next Makar.

STI pumps McCarthy's tires a bunch.

Granted I've only seen him play a couple times and that was 4 years ago, so maybe he has looked great despite pedestrian numbers and little to no buzz, but I see little to no chance McCarthy would step right into the NHL next year. Especially not with the group of youngsters we have slotted in to play 3rd pair ld.

BU was not very good this year so if he was a consideration for NJ next season, we could have signed him and stuck him in the AHL at the end of BU's season. We didn't.

 

[Guttersniped]

I'm not sure when the decision needs to be made for this offseason, but if he is not brought in then that says a lot about what the org thinks of him. Have to think if he has a future with the org he will be with Utica next season.

He was named AC for next year at BU so I assumed Case McCarthy was going back for another year.

It’s not like these have been normal seasons, and he played a meager 12 games in 2020-21 due to COVID and injury. He’s only played a total of 70 games all three years there.

Who knows how the org feels about him but 2020-21 was basically a lost season, he took a nice step forward this season but another year in College might not be a bad idea. Yes, we could lose him but guys sign with the teams that draft them all the time after staying 4 years.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

STI pumps McCarthy's tires a bunch.

Granted I've only seen him play a couple times and that was 4 years ago, so maybe he has looked great despite pedestrian numbers and little to no buzz, but I see little to no chance McCarthy would step right into the NHL next year. Especially not with the group of youngsters we have slotted in to play 3rd pair ld.

BU was not very good this year so if he was a consideration for NJ next season, we could have signed him and stuck him in the AHL at the end of BU's season. We didn't.

Well you're only going to set yourself up for disappointment if you're expecting him to be an offensive dman. That's not what he is.

4 years is a long time btw...

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

I've been thinking about this. The thing about Fiala is interesting because we have wingers who are promising, but not there yet (Mainly looking at Holtz and Gritsyuk). What do we do if they do hit their potential? I think this is the logic for trading someone like Holtz for Fiala. Might as well spend the asset to get someone established already. What else would we trade them for? A power forward? I mean sure, if Tkachuk was available...

If they do hit their potential, there won't be room cap-wise to fit them (remember this is assuming Holtz and Gritsyuk hit their potential on top of having Fiala).

Now if they can get an actual goalie...I'd be pursuing that route first 100%. Spend all the assets you need to get a goalie Fitz.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I disagree. I think he could slot into 3 RD just fine. I'm not expecting anything huge from him. Just solid d-play with not too many minutes and some pk.

I'm not sure what you mean by overrated. I don't think anyone claimed he's the next Makar.

Well nobody other than you is talking about him coming as the 3RD next season. He just isn’t that good. He’s a 4th round pick who’s been pretty good in college. It’s very fair of me to assume he will spend time in Utica before getting a shot in New Jersey. In fact people weirdly haven’t even been talking much about the Devils signing him although I think most of us would think should try to. I think you’re really reaching talking about him coming in as a 3D next year. That’s probably what his ceiling in 2-4 years is.

STI pumps McCarthy's tires a bunch.

Granted I've only seen him play a couple times and that was 4 years ago, so maybe he has looked great despite pedestrian numbers and little to no buzz, but I see little to no chance McCarthy would step right into the NHL next year. Especially not with the group of youngsters we have slotted in to play 3rd pair ld.

BU was not very good this year so if he was a consideration for NJ next season, we could have signed him and stuck him in the AHL at the end of BU's season. We didn't.

But I’d bet even STI who likes him doesn’t think he’s good enough to step in as a 3RD next season.

@StevenToddIves
We’re talking about McCarthy

 

[Captain3rdLine]

 

[Triumph]

Even in 2023-24?

Yes, if you read the entire post, it literally says " The Devils have $27M committed to 4 players in 2023-24, I have no worries at all about them figuring out how to put together a team with an addition of ~$7M at forward." the implication being that I'm not concerned abotu that. To be clear, I don't want them to trade for Fiala unless they get a better deal than is being proposed, and I also agree with people who think that it's not the best move for them overall. But it absolutely can be done and afforded.