Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

[NJDevs26]

I really don't remember seeing any posts advocating for re-signing Larsson, much less for big money. Would I rather have him than say, Subban on a short-term deal as a 3rd RD? Sure but they can get other vets to fill that role too, I'm not set on a reunion tour when he'll forever be known as the guy who 'OMG WE TRADED HIM FOR HALL...ONE FOR ONE!'

I don't remember the Hall trade being a bad one posts either...pointless was more the word that was used. Which you could really use for any trade in the history of hockey when a guy doesn't win a Cup.

 

[Wierzbowski426]

I do occasionally watch games 3 times. I don't do it as much as I used to because the team is so bad...but I used watch the live game, the replay and the abbreviate MSG Encore edition most games.

Not as enthusiastic about it when you lose every game though.

My favorite thing to do was to find were the breakdown began outside the the zone on the rush...sometimes it was tough because of camera angles but it always amazes me how often I could find goals against that originated in the offensive zone because someone made a careless play and didn't take care of the puck. And everyone would be blaming the defense or the goaltender in the GDT and make believe their favorite player didn't turnover the puck 3 feet inside the blue line or that the defender should've done something....

How has no one hired you to be a GM yet? Clearly you have all the answers.

 

[JimEIV]

I really don't remember seeing any posts advocating for re-signing Larsson, much less for big money. Would I rather have him than say, Subban on a short-term deal as a 3rd RD? Sure but they can get other vets to fill that role too, I'm not set on a reunion tour when he'll forever be known as the guy who 'OMG WE TRADED HIM FOR HALL...ONE FOR ONE!'

I don't remember the Hall trade being a bad one posts either...pointless was more the word that was used. Which you could really use for any trade in the history of hockey when a guy doesn't win a Cup.

I remember saying that I thought he was what we needed a year or two ago. I definitely said that at one point after he was traded probably some time before we added Kulikov and Murray.

 

[Zippy316]

I’m sure it’s been discussed quite a bit on here, but one thing from watching the playoffs, this Devils team as it’s constructed would have a really tough time the way these games are played.

The more pressing issue today is obviously consistently winning and getting to the playoffs, but that has to be on the back of Fitzgerald’s mind looking long-term. I think there needs to be a serious emphasis on complimenting Hughes, Bratt, Mercer, and Hischier with some bigger bodies up front. Some of the lines, especially how they were constructed last year, would be getting absolutely tossed around come playoff time.

 

[JrFischer54]

What does their draft position have to do with any of this conversation?

If Mercer becomes what Hischier is now is he a great player because he was picked 17?

Jim is calling Hischier mediocre. Is that because he was picked at 1?

For being 1oa I would say meh

 

[JimEIV]

I’m sure it’s been discussed quite a bit on here, but one thing from watching the playoffs, this Devils team as it’s constructed would have a really tough time the way these games are played.

The more pressing issue today is obviously consistently winning and getting to the playoffs, but that has to be on the back of Fitzgerald’s mind looking long-term. I think there needs to be a serious emphasis on complimenting Hughes, Bratt, Mercer, and Hischier with some bigger bodies up front. Some of the lines, especially how they were constructed last year, would be getting absolutely tossed around come playoff time.

I think they are getting absolutely tossed around in the regular season.

Seriously as soon as this happened Fitz should have done something to address the Roster and no Geertsen isn't the answer.

 

[Guttersniped]

It certainly helps that most of the guys you listed here were backstopped by a top 3 goaltender of all time. Jack and Nico get John f***ing Gillies. Might have something to do with the team's ability to win games.

I like the inclusion of the famed Gomez and Zajac duo, who could forget the many seasons we enjoyed watching those two tear up the league together. (Or one season.)

 

[JimEIV]

I like the inclusion of the famed Gomez and Zajac duo, who could forget the many seasons we enjoyed watching those two tear up the league together. (Or one season.)

Most of those duo's, trio's and quads were short lived.

 

[MauDevils]

I think they are getting absolutely tossed around in the regular season.

Seriously as soon as this happened Fitz should have done something to address the Roster and no Geertsen isn't the answer.

This has more to do with Jack not adjusting his game. If he thinks he can play in the corners like that he will have a short career.

You're not going to see guys like Patrick Kane putting themselves in that position.

 

[OmNomNom]

the boys on the team need to juice up

 

[mdj12784]

I think they are getting absolutely tossed around in the regular season.

Seriously as soon as this happened Fitz should have done something to address the Roster and no Geertsen isn't the answer.

This why I have no problem taking Wright, if Slaf is taken by Montreal. I feel Jack is always a hit away from being shelved…

 

[JrFischer54]

the boys on the team need to juice up

they need some legit nhl veterans on this roster thats what they need. winning veterans preferred but at this point any would do.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

The air of superiority still existed then....

So if you said something negative about a prospect, an organizational move or player...no sweat, not a big deal....we were used to flop picks but we probably goings to win the division, win 45 games and be won of the better teams on the East...that was 2010....

Now those prospects, players and organizational moves can't flop...that's all there is...there is no Elias and Parise or even Gionta or Gomez or Paul Martin to make you think it'll be alright. There is nothing.

Now say something negative and it's a f***ing crisis and everyone is triggered..

This comment most certainly was not directed at you. It's a general statement that the feeling then was significantly less flame war like when there were disagreements.

 

[Guttersniped]

When you write post like this I don't know what to do...you said at least 4 times that you don't want to debate...and I am very happy to respect that....

But you can't seriously write a big long post with multiple points telling me why I'm wrong and not expect me to respond in some way....How do you expect me to respond. Do you expect me not to? Do you honestly expect me to just leave it alone?

Are you interested in discussing at all? Or do you really think once you make your points That's it...final word.

I honestly don't get where you are coming from?

You can reply and post whatever you want, I’m not telling you what to do.

I was just explaining why I typically try to avoid getting into the weeds with you (when sober) with debates about your pet peeves.

I was also explaining why I think a Nico trade is a bad idea. It has a lot to do with the value of the center position but you keep discussing only offensive production (in your own particular way).

Even if your takes on production were right there’s still a disconnect on what this team would be like with Mercer at 2C, then McLeod, Boqvist, UFA or whatever at center behind him. This team is noticeably worse without Nico. That happened with Zajac back in the day too. If you judged Zajac only by his production then you have a different view on centers than me.

Wingers get traded all the time and hit the UFA market quite a bit, defensemen much less so but it happens every year. Top six centers just don’t hit the UFA market much, Danault in 2021 was the first notable center to hit the UFA market since Tavares in 2018. (And Bergevin was a moron for letting him go and keeping his army of wingers instead.) You’ve always undervalued Nico and have wanted to trade him away for no particular reason in the past.

I guess I wanted to pull this back to the trade proposal and away from the endless complaints about past performances. For instance, I too was disappointed with the weak start of his 2019-20 season and frustrated by injuries, but I have since gotten over it.

 

[MartyOwns]

if the habs take slaf, would you trade 2OA and smith for 3OA and church? i would. lou sucks. in a couple of years our d would be some combination of hughes, muk, nemec, church, hamilton and siegs. that’s a defense that gets you to the playoffs, and with half of them on ELC’s we can just sign a top 6 forward. no brainer to me.

 

[MasterofGrond]

Jim is one of the most important posters on this board. He’s the Roman slave whispering in all of our ears that even though we have good players, no good player is perfect and no good player will be with the team forever.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

if the habs take slaf, would you trade 2OA and smith for 3OA and church? i would. lou sucks. in a couple of years our d would be some combination of hughes, muk, nemec, church, hamilton and siegs. that’s a defense that gets you to the playoffs, and with half of them on ELC’s we can just sign a top 6 forward. no brainer to me.

100% I would but I can't ever see Arizona doing that.

I Would take Logan Cooley at #3 in that case.

FYI there are people who dont want to trade for LHDs on this board because we have some prospect depth there

 

[JimEIV]

You can reply and post whatever you want, I’m not telling you what to do.

I was just explaining why I typically try to avoid getting into the weeds with you (when sober) with debates about your pet peeves.

I was also explaining why I think a Nico trade is a bad idea. It has a lot to do with the value of the center position but you keep discussing only offensive production (in your own particular way).

Even if your takes on production were right there’s still a disconnect on what this team would be like with Mercer at 2C, then McLeod, Boqvist, UFA or whatever at center behind him. This team is noticeably worse without Nico. That happened with Zajac back in the day too. If you judged Zajac only by his production then you have a different view on centers than me.

Wingers get traded all the time and hit the UFA market quite a bit, defensemen much less so but it happens every year. Top six centers just don’t hit the UFA market much, Danault in 2021 was the first notable center to hit the UFA market since Tavares in 2018. (And Bergevin was moron for letting him go and keeping his army of wingers instead.) You’ve always undervalued Nico and have wanted to trade him away for no particular reason in the past.

I guess I wanted to pull this back to the trade proposal and away from the endless complaints about past performances. For instance, I too was disappointed with the weak start of his 2019-20 season and frustrated by injuries, but I have since gotten over it.

I agree with notion of centers much more than you realize. I amnot fully on board with the idea that centers are automatically a higher value than wingers as is often portrayed in a blind axiom sort of way on these boards....An elite level anything is more valuable than an average to good positionally important player....and yes of course *good" doesn't only include points...but Nico is not a Selke caliber defender... Zajac was at only 23 years old finishing 7th in the league in only his 3rd year in the league....Zajac is someone who you could put a liability with and get coverage... it's essentially what he did for Kovalchuk

Nico is not that defensively...In fact I think he's tad bit overrated defensively. I think there is an unreasonable attachment to Nico because of his draft status and because he represents this rebuild. I think without that baggage, the idea of trading him would cause almost none of the controversy it has.

Your points regarding the depth and backfilling are valid but if you can sure up two other areas and address a major weekness of size and more difficult to play against players that go into dirty areas the depth issues become less

I just think Nico or Jack for that matter can't be viewed without bias from not only Devil fans but hockey fans in general that see that #1OA label and can't unsee it.

 

[Bcap88]

*bangs the rotary phone and screams lou is goat and third liners are king

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Being annoyed that Jack Hughes got body slammed onto his shoulder that would take out 99% of the league with the same injury is something I didn't think I'd see on my Thursday evening....

 

[Brodeur]

if the habs take slaf, would you trade 2OA and smith for 3OA and church? i would. lou sucks. in a couple of years our d would be some combination of hughes, muk, nemec, church, hamilton and siegs. that’s a defense that gets you to the playoffs, and with half of them on ELC’s we can just sign a top 6 forward. no brainer to me.

Not sure I see Arizona going for that. Difference between Wright and Cooley seems slimmer than the gap between Smith and Chychrun. Seemed like they wanted a big rebuilding package (couple good prospects plus a first) for Chychrun. It might sense if Wright was a box office attraction for Arizona but I don't think that's his type of game.

If Slaf is off the board, I'm fine with taking Wright and milking his ELC years then seeing what happens after that.

Given our D, I'd almost argue that Jiricek profiles more of what we need than Nemec (in a vacuum I have Nemec higher). There won't be enough PP1 time to go around between Hamilton/L.Hughes so Nemec's value might get a little bit more throttled while we could use a guy who could play a shutdown game while adding some even strength offense.

Fun proposal might be the Rick Dudley / Doug MacLean draft day swap in 2002. Columbus traded up from #3 to #1 and gave up the right to swap 1st round picks in 2003, essentially Columbus used its future lottery odds as a commodity.

#2 for #4 plus a condition where we could swap 1sts with Seattle in 2023 or get their 2023 2nd if we didn't swap? Can't imagine Seattle would go for that, but maybe they have higher expectations for themselves...

 

[Its Always Sundstrom]

I might go to this:

I just might join you. I’ll the guy with the limbs and clothes on.

 

[MartyOwns]

100% I would but I can't ever see Arizona doing that.

I Would take Logan Cooley at #3 in that case.

FYI there are people who dont want to trade for LHDs on this board because we have some prospect depth there

Not sure I see Arizona going for that. Difference between Wright and Cooley seems slimmer than the gap between Smith and Chychrun. Seemed like they wanted a big rebuilding package (couple good prospects plus a first) for Chychrun. It might sense if Wright was a box office attraction for Arizona but I don't think that's his type of game.

If Slaf is off the board, I'm fine with taking Wright and milking his ELC years then seeing what happens after that.

Given our D, I'd almost argue that Jiricek profiles more of what we need than Nemec (in a vacuum I have Nemec higher). There won't be enough PP1 time to go around between Hamilton/L.Hughes so Nemec's value might get a little bit more throttled while we could use a guy who could play a shutdown game while adding some even strength offense.

Fun proposal might be the Rick Dudley / Doug MacLean draft day swap in 2002. Columbus traded up from #3 to #1 and gave up the right to swap 1st round picks in 2003, essentially Columbus used its future lottery odds as a commodity.

#2 for #4 plus a condition where we could swap 1sts with Seattle in 2023 or get their 2023 2nd if we didn't swap? Can't imagine Seattle would go for that, but maybe they have higher expectations for themselves...

i don’t think their fans would do that, but i think ownership might. they’re getting 2 cost controlled first round picks and shedding church’s salary.

but you might be right. i would be willing to add to that to get it done, depending on what else they need. i wouldn’t add anything significant.

edit zbc- yes we’re deep at LD (maybe not if hughes can play right) but we’re giving up smith, a LD that was supposed to be a lot better than what we’ve seen

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Being annoyed that Jack Hughes got body slammed onto his shoulder that would take out 99% of the league with the same injury is something I didn't think I'd see on my Thursday evening....

I do think he does need to learn how to take contact better though. Getting bigger and stronger will help but it’s something he can improve. Kaprizov (who is small but does have more bulk) is really good at not getting bullied and put in vulnerable situations. It’s sometimes safer for the smaller guy to initiate the contact rather than dance out of the way.

 

[My3Sons]

I do think he does need to learn how to take contact better though. Getting bigger and stronger will help but it’s something he can improve. Kaprizov (who is small but does have more bulk) is really good at not getting bullied and put in vulnerable situations. It’s sometimes safer for the smaller guy to initiate the contact rather than dance out of the way.

that's Marchand's m.o. Of course he initiates with his stick too.