Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

[Billdo]

What does their draft position have to do with any of this conversation?

If Mercer becomes what Hischier is now is he a great player because he was picked 17?

Jim is calling Hischier mediocre. Is that because he was picked at 1?

Yes, it is. If Hischier was picked literally anywhere else he wouldn't be harping on him to this extent.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

that's Marchand's m.o. Of course he initiates with his stick too.

Tongue too

 

[Brodeur]

i don’t think their fans would do that, but i think ownership might. they’re getting 2 cost controlled first round picks and shedding church’s salary.

Seems like they've already been offered three cost controlled assets for Chychrun alone but they were holding out for a better offer. Just don't think they'd use him if it meant the difference between getting Wright vs. Cooley. If it were a bigger gap like Eichel vs. D.Strome, then perhaps that would make more sense.

 

[MadDevil]

Yes, it is. If Hischier was picked literally anywhere else he wouldn't be harping on him to this extent.

It's why I try to divorce draft position from the player most of the time. All that really matters to me is whether or not the player can help the team win. I don't care if that player was #1 overall or #200 overall. I get it, when you have the #1 overall pick you want a star. You want a guy who is going to put up 80+ points a year and is the best player in his draft class. But it doesn't always happen. In fact given that you're basically 1 against 200+ other picks, statistically it's probably likely you won't. It's okay to be disappointed, but when a poster takes that disappointment and turn into bad faith arguments as to why that player is a huge disappointment, it gets annoying and leads to pages of people throwing stones at said person. It's easy to say "just don't engage" but at some point shouldn't you maybe look at the cause rather than just the symptoms?

 

[NJDevs26]

It's why I try to divorce draft position from the player most of the time. All that really matters to me is whether or not the player can help the team win. I don't care if that player was #1 overall or #200 overall. I get it, when you have the #1 overall pick you want a star. You want a guy who is going to put up 80+ points a year and is the best player in his draft class. But it doesn't always happen. In fact given that you're basically 1 against 200+ other picks, statistically it's probably likely you won't. It's okay to be disappointed, but when a poster takes that disappointment and turn into bad faith arguments as to why that player is a huge disappointment, it gets annoying and leads to pages of people throwing stones at said person. It's easy to say "just don't engage" but at some point shouldn't you maybe look at the cause rather than just the symptoms?

Agree with the first part but again, nobody is making you guys respond. Nobody is making you guys call each other names on the board, which most of you should already know is against the rules of the site and accomplishes nothing regardless. Everyone complains about the tenor of the board but nobody actually thinks it’s their fault as they add to the mess, when there’s plenty of gratuitous sniping from almost every one of you that has nothing to do with who’s a ‘disappointment’ as a player and has to do only with what you all think of other posters personally.

 

[devilsblood]

if the habs take slaf, would you trade 2OA and smith for 3OA and church? i would. lou sucks. in a couple of years our d would be some combination of hughes, muk, nemec, church, hamilton and siegs. that’s a defense that gets you to the playoffs, and with half of them on ELC’s we can just sign a top 6 forward. no brainer to me.

Value standpoint it's hard to say no to that.

But Chychrun is not a great fit for the Devils. We don't need a LHD, and Chychrun typically misses a ton of games.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Value standpoint it's hard to say no to that.

But Chychrun is not a great fit for the Devils. We don't need a LHD, and Chychrun typically misses a ton of games.

Like I said lol

This is a sentiment I absolutely do not get. At all.

 

[devilsblood]

100% I would but I can't ever see Arizona doing that.

I Would take Logan Cooley at #3 in that case.

FYI there are people who dont want to trade for LHDs on this board because we have some prospect depth there

Not only do we have significant prospect depth at lhd, depth that has come via using significant draft capital on, but we have Graves and Sieg's as proven top 4 NHLr's as well.

In this hypothetical trade, which I agree would never happen, we are trading a high pick with which we could address organizational needs, but instead we are trading it for the 2 things we are strong at organizationally.

I do have to acknowledge it would be tough to pass up on due to value, but from a team building perspective it doesn't make much sense.

Like I said lol

This is a sentiment I absolutely do not get. At all.

see above.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Two of the Devils 4 best DMen are only signed for 1 more year...one is a lefty (Graves), one is a righty (Severson). Not to mention Chychrun is better than both of them.

none of the Devils' D prospect pool are proven to the point where IMO I would refuse to make a move for a LHD if one presented itself.

to say "we don't need LHD" is crazy to me, sorry. You could always move those "plethora" of LHD prospects for help elsewhere or in a package for an upgrade.

 

[Emperoreddy]

We need wingers more and you are trading away a lot of our best available assets for a position we have depth at while completely avoiding postions we don't have depth at.

It's a limited number of assets so you can't address them all at once. Trading the pick and Smith for D leaves less to trade or draft high end wingers with.

 

[NJDevs26]

Graves didn’t show me that much after the first 10-15 games to suggest we should re-sign him long term anyway. Maybe they do resign him because Fitz traded for him after all, but you’re pretty much locking yourself into this D plus Luke over the next five years if you do re-sign Graves and Sevo. Though the D improved a little last year, I’m not sure this should be our no doubt D core going forward.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

We need wingers more and you are trading away a lot of our best available assets for a position we have depth at while completely avoiding postions we don't have depth at.

It's a limited number of assets so you can't address them all at once. Trading the pick and Smith for D leaves less to trade or draft high end wingers with.

I mean, you're getting either Cooley or Wright at #3 in that scenario who both can just as easily play on the wing

 

[devilsblood]

Two of the Devils 4 best DMen are only signed for 1 more year...one is a lefty (Graves), one is a righty (Severson). Not to mention Chychrun is better than both of them.

none of the Devils' D prospect pool are proven to the point where IMO I would refuse to make a move for a LHD if one presented itself.

to say "we don't need LHD" is crazy to me, sorry. You could always move those "plethora" of LHD prospects for help elsewhere or in a package for an upgrade.

Sev's is a righty, so it's really a Chych vs Graves conversation. And in this hypothetical we are basically being given Chych for free, so we can turn around and trade Graves for anything decent and make out like bandits, so it's a pretty easy call.

But in a more realistic situation, I'm not moving valuable assets for an oft injured LHD. Not with how much draft capital we have invested in the position in recent years that should bear fruit in upcoming years.

 

[Bleedred]

Graves didn’t show me that much after the first 10-15 games to suggest we should re-sign him long term anyway. Maybe they do resign him because Fitz traded for him after all, but you’re pretty much locking yourself into this D plus Luke over the next five years if you do re-sign Graves and Sevo. Though the D improved a little last year, I’m not sure this should be our no doubt D core going forward.

I'd rather he was just the Fitzgerald version of what Marcus Johansson was to Shero.

Just a stop gap guy that was able to give us good NHL minutes for two seasons.

I'd put him up there with Zacha in that if we re-sign him then we're just re-signing him just to re-sign him.

A great way to get us in cap trouble in a year or two is spending $8-$9 million combined (or god forbid more) on Ryan Graves and Pavel Zacha, just because we traded for one guy and the other guy is a homegrown player that has improved in some years, but really not enough to warrant being a core piece or locked up here and seems to have nothing more than a 40-45 point ceiling (maybe slightly more in a career year or two) and that's if you give him plenty of PP time and quite a bit of even strength minutes.

 

[devilsblood]

Graves didn’t show me that much after the first 10-15 games to suggest we should re-sign him long term anyway. Maybe they do resign him because Fitz traded for him after all, but you’re pretty much locking yourself into this D plus Luke over the next five years if you do re-sign Graves and Sevo. Though the D improved a little last year, I’m not sure this should be our no doubt D core going forward.

I tend to think Graves is gone, even if it's a couple years too early to just insert Luke or Shak into the top 4. But I can't see signing him to a fairly hefty 4-5 year deal which I imagine is what he will get. And as you say it's not like his play makes it super difficult to not sign him.

On the other hand, how good is Chychrun? He looks pretty good 5v5, but is he anything more then a mid pair guy. Special teams he's a 2nd unit guy...at best. And he's hurt a lot.
.

We need wingers more and you are trading away a lot of our best available assets for a position we have depth at while completely avoiding postions we don't have depth at.

It's a limited number of assets so you can't address them all at once. Trading the pick and Smith for D leaves less to trade or draft high end wingers with.

Not to mention RHD.

I know we have Hamilton and Sev's with one more year on his deal but beyond that?

 

[Emperoreddy]

I mean, you're getting either Cooley or Wright at #3 in that scenario who both can just as easily play on the wing

I don't think that scenario is realistic. I don't see how they give us him and 3 back.

 

[devilsblood]

I'd rather he was just the Fitzgerald version of what Marcus Johansson was to Shero.

Just a stop gap guy that was able to give us good NHL minutes for two seasons.

I'd put him up there with Zacha in that if we re-sign him then we're just re-signing him just to re-sign him.

A great way to get us in cap trouble in a year or two is spending $8-$9 million combined (or god forbid more) on Ryan Graves and Pavel Zacha, just because we traded for one guy and the other guy is a homegrown player that has improved in some years, but really not enough to warrant being a core piece or locked up here and seems to have nothing more than a 40-45 point ceiling (maybe slightly more in a career year or two) and that's if you give him plenty of PP time and quite a bit of even strength minutes.

Graves is a guy who we need this season, but towards the end of the year, if we are not in playoff contention I have to figure either Luke or Shak squeeze him out. Can't see paying him whatever contract he will likely command next offseason, not with the presence of the young guys.

Zacha, though he provides some versatility, is a guy who could be gone this offseason, or he could too be traded at the deadline. Though I wonder if he is not traded, and he has a good year, and the team makes the playoffs, does he get a contract from NJ?

 

[Emperoreddy]

I tend to think Graves is gone, even if it's a couple years too early to just insert Luke or Shak into the top 4. But I can't see signing him to a fairly hefty 4-5 year deal which I imagine is what he will get. And as you say it's not like his play makes it super difficult to not sign him.

On the other hand, how good is Chychrun? He looks pretty good 5v5, but is he anything more then a mid pair guy. Special teams he's a 2nd unit guy...at best. And he's hurt a lot.
.


Not to mention RHD.

I know we have Hamilton and Sev's with one more year on his deal but beyond that?

It depends what they do with Severson. If he isn't resigning then they need to make a significant move on that side to replace him.

If he resigns then you most likely don't want to tie up any more significant money on the fight side for a while

 

[Bleedred]

Graves is a guy who we need this season, but towards the end of the year, if we are not in playoff contention I have to figure either Luke or Shak squeeze him out. Can't see paying him whatever contract he will likely command next offseason, not with the presence of the young guys.

Zacha, though he provides some versatility, is a guy who could be gone this offseason, or he could too be traded at the deadline. Though I wonder if he is not traded, and he has a good year, and the team makes the playoffs, does he get a contract from NJ?

I think we need Graves this season too, but he's not somebody I think we should be keeping long term. And he probably scores too many points to keep his dollars down.

Zacha needs a new contract right now. The only way we'd be signing him after anything that potentially happens next year is if we only gave him a one year deal. A report came out a few months back that his agent was going to tell him to just take his qualifying offer for one year and head straight to UFA. Now whether that really ends up being what happens or not, who knows?

 

[Emperoreddy]

Graves is a guy who we need this season, but towards the end of the year, if we are not in playoff contention I have to figure either Luke or Shak squeeze him out. Can't see paying him whatever contract he will likely command next offseason, not with the presence of the young guys.

Zacha, though he provides some versatility, is a guy who could be gone this offseason, or he could too be traded at the deadline. Though I wonder if he is not traded, and he has a good year, and the team makes the playoffs, does he get a contract from NJ?

Sieg proving to be a very good Dman does potentially make Graves expendable but not until Luke arrives.

Assuming things work out you don't want to be paying Graves major money to play on your third pair for years

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

Zacha, though he provides some versatility, is a guy who could be gone this offseason, or he could too be traded at the deadline. Though I wonder if he is not traded, and he has a good year, and the team makes the playoffs, does he get a contract from NJ?

I honestly think Zacha wants to play C and it is clear the Devils are not going to play him there full time. I also remember him saying on one of those pregame videos that he is more comfortable as a C. Fitz is not sure where he fits in long term and Zacha does not seem to want to be here - I really cannot see him here after this year (if he makes it that long).

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Zacha needs to be dumped. Trade him for whatever you can get this summer.

 

[devilsblood]

It depends what they do with Severson. If he isn't resigning then they need to make a significant move on that side to replace him.

If he resigns then you most likely don't want to tie up any more significant money on the fight side for a while

Oh, ya, when I talk about the need for RHD, I'm talking signing a vet, d-oriented, solid pk, 3rd pair guy. And then drafting guys who we wouldn't expect to be in the NHL for 3-4 years.

I'm pro Slaf, but drafting him #2oa does put us in a position where I think we almost have to draft rhd with our 2nd rounder. Posters may think such a take is extreme, to focus so much on one specific position with a specific draft pick, but look at the organizational depth chart, look at the absolute lack of draft capital we have invested. I'd advocate the same for the 3rd rounder. It has to be a focus.

 

[devilsblood]

I honestly think Zacha wants to play C and it is clear the Devils are not going to play him there full time. I also remember him saying on one of those pregame videos that he is more comfortable as a C. Fitz is not sure where he fits in long term and Zacha does not seem to want to be here - I really cannot see him here after this year (if he makes it that long).

Zacha needs to be dumped. Trade him for whatever you can get this summer.

We do need to move wingers, so Zacha may be the one who does get traded. But if I only have to dump one, I'm dumping Johnsson or Tatar first.

Zacha brings more versatility, and of those 3 has the best chance of a good season that could lead to a better return in a late season trade.

But if you can get something worthwhile for him this offseason, say a solid RHD with a couple years left, or a perhaps a solid goalie(probably unrealistic?) then sure, make the trade now.

Sieg proving to be a very good Dman does potentially make Graves expendable but not until Luke arrives.

Assuming things work out you don't want to be paying Graves major money to play on your third pair for years

Yup, Sieg's is a keeper in my book as well.

Graves becomes interesting if he has a good year and the team is in the playoff hunt. Even more interesting if Luke or Shak don't look NHL ready by seasons end, which is something I don't expect.

 

[Triumph]

Zacha's not bringing back anything in trade. He's arbitration-eligible and his price tag is too high. I will be shocked if he's dealt for a 2nd round pick.

He has hopefully played his final game in a Devils uniform.