Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

[PizzaAndPucks]

In hoping Ohoktyuk makes another good impression this upcoming year. Him and Bahl have to be the first call ups on defense I would think. Bahl should be the 7th D man as well. If we have Ohoktyuk playing a good amount of games at the NHl level than that will mean we didn't sign any other D men this offseason or that we were hit with injuries. He sti doesn't have a ton of pro experience but Ohoktyuk looked pretty good in his call up. Not a bad skater and actually plays a with an edge. Him and Siegenthaler as a shut down pairing could be a pretty great duo or having them split would be great for guys like Hughes/Muk/Walsh/Hamilton.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I think they absolutely have to sign a 3rd pairing/PK type DMan this offseason

and honestly I dont care about the return on Zacha. I'd take a 3rd round pick at this point.

 

[devilsblood]

I think we need Graves this season too, but he's not somebody I think we should be keeping long term. And he probably scores too many points to keep his dollars down.

Zacha needs a new contract right now. The only way we'd be signing him after anything that potentially happens next year is if we only gave him a one year deal. A report came out a few months back that his agent was going to tell him to just take his qualifying offer for one year and head straight to UFA. Now whether that really ends up being what happens or not, who knows?

l think I was going off the one year/qualifying offer scenario.

Zacha's not bringing back anything in trade. He's arbitration-eligible and his price tag is too high. I will be shocked if he's dealt for a 2nd round pick.

He has hopefully played his final game in a Devils uniform.

I know we have a glut of meh winger's, but I'm looking to move Johnsson or Tatar first. Trading Zacha for mid rounders? I'd rather keep him around for another season.

Though as I say above, Zacha for a 3rd pair RHD?

 

[devilsblood]

In hoping Ohoktyuk makes another good impression this upcoming year. Him and Bahl have to be the first call ups on defense I would think. Bahl should be the 7th D man as well. If we have Ohoktyuk playing a good amount of games at the NHl level than that will mean we didn't sign any other D men this offseason or that we were hit with injuries. He sti doesn't have a ton of pro experience but Ohoktyuk looked pretty good in his call up. Not a bad skater and actually plays a with an edge. Him and Siegenthaler as a shut down pairing could be a pretty great duo or having them split would be great for guys like Hughes/Muk/Walsh/Hamilton.

Sieg's and OK are both lefties.

But I do expect Bahl OK and Smith(assuming he's not traded) to battle it out for the 3rd pair role. I do think that is an open competition.

Don't expect that any of the 3 would be sitting around as a 7th.

 

[Billdo]

l think I was going off the one year/qualifying offer scenario.



I know we have a glut of meh winger's, but I'm looking to move Johnsson or Tatar first. Trading Zacha for mid rounders? I'd rather keep him around for another season.

Though as I say above, Zacha for a 3rd pair RHD?

As much as I'd hate to say it if we can get a reliable PKing defensive 3rd pairing RD I'd move Zacha... and I HATE saying that.

 

[Triumph]

I know we have a glut of meh winger's, but I'm looking to move Johnsson or Tatar first. Trading Zacha for mid rounders? I'd rather keep him around for another season.

Though as I say above, Zacha for a 3rd pair RHD?

Keep him around? Why? He doesn't want to be here and the Devils don't want him here. Keeping players around for shitty assets is bad team management, especially when you can replace him with a guy who does want to be here.

He has almost no trade value. I cannot imagine anyone trading for him.

 

[devilsblood]

Keep him around? Why? He doesn't want to be here and the Devils don't want him here. Keeping players around for shitty assets is bad team management, especially when you can replace him with a guy who does want to be here.

He has almost no trade value. I cannot imagine anyone trading for him.

Why do the Devils not want him here? Is he in the long term plans? No but neither is Graves and we absolutely want him here this season.

Johnsson, Tatar? Are these guys any different then Zacha? Beyond Zacha having larger ambitions?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

nobody wants Tatar or Johnsson either, thats the problem

some dumb GM might see top 10 pick with size and still hold out hope for Zacha, who knows.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Oh, ya, when I talk about the need for RHD, I'm talking signing a vet, d-oriented, solid pk, 3rd pair guy. And then drafting guys who we wouldn't expect to be in the NHL for 3-4 years.

I'm pro Slaf, but drafting him #2oa does put us in a position where I think we almost have to draft rhd with our 2nd rounder. Posters may think such a take is extreme, to focus so much on one specific position with a specific draft pick, but look at the organizational depth chart, look at the absolute lack of draft capital we have invested. I'd advocate the same for the 3rd rounder. It has to be a focus.

Oh absolutely they need to use multiple picks this and next year on D, RD especially so they have some cheap internal options down the road

 

[Triumph]

Why do the Devils not want him here? Is he in the long term plans? No but neither is Graves and we absolutely want him here this season.

Johnsson, Tatar? Are these guys any different then Zacha? Beyond Zacha having larger ambitions?

The Devils traded for Graves and do not have to negotiate his contract. They have a contract negotiation with Zacha which they should opt out of and let him become a free agent.

Johnsson and Tatar don't have agents stirring up trade rumors about them, so yes, they are different. Tatar signed a contract to be here and if Slafkovsky is to be believed, he speaks well about the team.

 

[devilsblood]

nobody wants Tatar or Johnsson either, thats the problem

some dumb GM might see top 10 pick with size and still hold out hope for Zacha, who knows.

Well yeah in this scenario we are getting something for Zacha while we get nothing for those other 2.

In the just "dump" whoever scenario I'm keeping Zacha above those guys.

 

[Billdo]

Keep him around? Why? He doesn't want to be here and the Devils don't want him here. Keeping players around for shitty assets is bad team management, especially when you can replace him with a guy who does want to be here.

He has almost no trade value. I cannot imagine anyone trading for him.

I feel like he's got some value although probably not anything more than another reclamation project or a former relatively high pick that has stagnated.

 

[devilsblood]

The Devils traded for Graves and do not have to negotiate his contract. They have a contract negotiation with Zacha which they should opt out of and let him become a free agent.

Johnsson and Tatar don't have agents stirring up trade rumors about them, so yes, they are different. Tatar signed a contract to be here and if Slafkovsky is to be believed, he speaks well about the team.

Ha, yeah because after being benched in the playoffs there weren't many suitors beyond a basement dweller with cap space.

 

[Triumph]

I feel like he's got some value although probably not anything more than another reclamation project or a former relatively high pick that has stagnated.

He is arbitration-eligible. He can perhaps be traded for another arbitration-eligible player. I cannot imagine anyone letting Zacha file for arbitration.

Ha, yeah because after being benched in the playoffs there weren't many suitors beyond a basement dweller with cap space.

How do you have any idea that this is true? Tatar signed for $4.5M/year several days after free agency opened, that doesn't sound like a guy who had no interest. Otherwise the Devils could've offered significantly less.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Weren't we having a discussion just the other day about why more people don't join/post? Well, it's probably because of annoying bullshit arguments like this that are stirred up by the same posters all the time. A person would have to be insane to want to walk into this madhouse.

Why? Isn’t the point of a message board to view and partake in discussion, which…gasp…might entail differing opinions?

You guys act like Jim’s opinions are batshit crazy. They are different, certainly unpopular, but the consensus opinion here is not nearly as black and white as you all are convinced of. The state of this team and the quality of our players is a murkier topic than a lot of people here are willing to admit.

On top of…this is sports. Entertainment. We arent talking about anything serious enough that it warrants getting this emotionally twisted over someone’s unpopular viewpoint. If someone is that shook up over it that they won’t join the board…oh well?

 

[devilsblood]

How do you have any idea that this is true? Tatar signed for $4.5M/year several days after free agency opened, that doesn't sound like a guy who had no interest. Otherwise the Devils could've offered significantly less.

Ya, savy analytic GM's were lining up to sign him, but he decided to sign a 2 year deal with a basement dweller in a high tax state. .

That adds up.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Why? Isn’t the point of a message board to view and partake in discussion, which…gasp…might entail differing opinions?

You guys act like Jim’s opinions are batshit crazy. They are different, certainly unpopular, but the consensus opinion here is not nearly as black and white as you all are convinced of. The state of this team and the quality of our players is a murkier topic than a lot of people here are willing to admit.

On top of…this is sports. Entertainment. We arent talking about anything serious enough that it warrants getting this emotionally twisted over someone’s unpopular viewpoint. If someone is that shook up over it that they won’t join the board…oh well?

Sure it is.

Jack Hughes, Nico Hischier, and Jesper Bratt (among a few others) are not included in that. Period. End of discussion.

 

[Bcap88]

Why? Isn’t the point of a message board to view and partake in discussion, which…gasp…might entail differing opinions?

You guys act like Jim’s opinions are batshit crazy. They are different, certainly unpopular, but the consensus opinion here is not nearly as black and white as you all are convinced of. The state of this team and the quality of our players is a murkier topic than a lot of people here are willing to admit.

On top of…this is sports. Entertainment. We arent talking about anything serious enough that it warrants getting this emotionally twisted over someone’s unpopular viewpoint. If someone is that shook up over it that they won’t join the board…oh well?

It’s just the same shit over and over and over let me give you an example of cranky pants arguments. Jack Hughes points totals in his first three seasons doesn’t compare to *insert random so and so player from the early 90’s devils teams. Once jack starts doing well then he moves onto another player and it just happens to be nico right now. All while making points on top of points and saying how everyone is wrong. And at the same time wishing lou and the early 90’s devils would resurrect from the depths of history and be carbon copied into todays league(which is way different). Once nico starts showing progression he will then go onto the next under performing player thus repeating this same cycle of tired arguments

Complaining about the social media policy,facial hair the number 13 is just comical as well

 

[guitarguyvic]

Sure it is.

Jack Hughes, Nico Hischier, and Jesper Bratt (among a few others) are not included in that. Period. End of discussion.

Not included in what? It seems you’re implying that we have posters saying these are bad players. I haven’t seen anyone say that. These are good players. The conflict seems to me to be around…are they really as good as the consensus opinion here? I like what I saw from Bratt and Jack last year. I want to see it replicated, and I want to see them stay healthy while doing it.

Nico…I mean, what did he accomplish last year that’s significantly different than other years so far? We have people here citing 25 game sample sizes…I mean come on. Over the last two seasons he has missed a large chunk of the season. These are incomplete results…maybe it’s enough for you guys to come to conclusions that he is something more than he’s shown so far, but why is it so damn offensive if someone takes a more cautious view of it?

I’ve been here many years. I’ve seen this same sort of story play out with other prospects/players of ours. Adam Larson might be the most notable. He was always a top pairing d-man who was just being held back by that meanie coach who didn’t play him enough. Right. No the reality is that the majority of this board convinced themselves he was a top pairing guy based on his draft position and our hopes…and once that narrative took hold, any skepticism of it no matter how warranted it might be was shunned.

 

[Andre Palot]

Yes, it is. If Hischier was picked literally anywhere else he wouldn't be harping on him to this extent.

But that's a nonsensical argument for Jim to have because we were only picking one of two people on that draft night.

We picked the superior player. We were never were picking Makar and even the best scouts and hockey pundits in media had no idea Makar was going to end up being the player he was. Hindsight doesn't mean as much as some perceive it to.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Try and see if someone will part with any asset for Zacha or just not tender him.

The team is actively trying to bring in new wingers that would push him down or outright out of the lineup.

They also got some kids that deserve a shot over wasting a spot on Zacha. It's time to move on.

 

[MadDevil]

Why? Isn’t the point of a message board to view and partake in discussion, which…gasp…might entail differing opinions?

You guys act like Jim’s opinions are batshit crazy. They are different, certainly unpopular, but the consensus opinion here is not nearly as black and white as you all are convinced of. The state of this team and the quality of our players is a murkier topic than a lot of people here are willing to admit.

On top of…this is sports. Entertainment. We arent talking about anything serious enough that it warrants getting this emotionally twisted over someone’s unpopular viewpoint. If someone is that shook up over it that they won’t join the board…oh well?

If Jim, or certain other posters, actually wanted to engage in an honest discussion, that's great. He doesn't. He deflects, ignores, or moves the goal posts every time one of his opinions is proven wrong, which then leads to people getting annoyed, which then results in them (and I'm just as guilty of this as anyone) arguing the poster over the point. As I've said numerous times, it's not so much what is actually being said as much as it is the way it's being said.

 

[Triumph]

Ya, savy analytic GM's were lining up to sign him, but he decided to sign a 2 year deal with a basement dweller in a high tax state. .

That adds up.

You are deliberately misunderstanding the point. Tatar did not sign for a minimum salary. He signed for $4.5M per. Unless the Devils got completely caught with their pants down and were outbidding themselves, someone else had interest in him, just not interest at that price. The idea that he had one team interested and signed for $4.5M per doesn't square.

 

[Triumph]

Not included in what? It seems you’re implying that we have posters saying these are bad players. I haven’t seen anyone say that. These are good players. The conflict seems to me to be around…are they really as good as the consensus opinion here? I like what I saw from Bratt and Jack last year. I want to see it replicated, and I want to see them stay healthy while doing it.

Nico…I mean, what did he accomplish last year that’s significantly different than other years so far? We have people here citing 25 game sample sizes…I mean come on. Over the last two seasons he has missed a large chunk of the season. These are incomplete results…maybe it’s enough for you guys to come to conclusions that he is something more than he’s shown so far, but why is it so damn offensive if someone takes a more cautious view of it?

I’ve been here many years. I’ve seen this same sort of story play out with other prospects/players of ours. Adam Larson might be the most notable. He was always a top pairing d-man who was just being held back by that meanie coach who didn’t play him enough. Right. No the reality is that the majority of this board convinced themselves he was a top pairing guy based on his draft position and our hopes…and once that narrative took hold, any skepticism of it no matter how warranted it might be was shunned.

His arguments are deliberately in bad faith, he almost always gets some number wrong, whether deliberate or otherwise - there's disagreeing and there's being deliberately contrarian and shifting the goalposts. I've certainly gone against board consensus on players before, I don't need to resort to goalpost shifts to do it.

 

[severian]

But that's a nonsensical argument for Jim to have because we were only picking one of two people on that draft night.

We picked the superior player. We were never were picking Makar and even the best scouts and hockey pundits in media had no idea Makar was going to end up being the player he was. Hindsight doesn't mean as much as some perceive it to.

Pronman had the Devils taking Makar.

NHL Draft 2017: ESPN projects New Jersey Devils will take UMass commit Cale Makar No.1 overall in latest mock

ESPN Insider's Corey Pronman released his latest 2017 NHL mock draft Thursday morning and projects Makar, a defenseman widely considered one of the top prospects in this year's draft, to go first overall to the New Jersey Devils.

www.masslive.com