Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

[devilsblood]

I wonder if it is our drafting is shitty , or our player development is shitty , combination of both or just bad luck where the drafts we have picks in , are not great?

But we have young guys all over the roster. Especially at fwd(maybe better to say exclusively at fwd).

Nico might be worth a discussion though. And maybe he was always destined to be a guy who focused so much on defense, but for a young guy we've put a lot in terms of defensive responsibilities on his plate, and you wonder if that hasn't been at the expense of some offense. Hughes on the other hand is given the cherry offensive opportunities.

Even more so for McLeod. I feel he get's a bad rap here, super tough minutes for a young guy trying to find his way in the league.

In general, we've done well in terms of drafting and developing guys who can play fwd in the NHL.

 

[Eggtimer]

We habe accumulated enough prospects where we could trade to fill holes at different positions .
Yes we have terrible RHD depth , however we have a surplus of LHD. I don’t see an issue with trading from a point of strength to address weaknesses.
Yes it would be nice to ice a roster with as many homegrown players as possible , but I think the best value by drafting BPA , assessing what we have and need l then deciding what to do from there.
Trading a Ty Smith or a Bahl for a RHD equivalent should be no big issue.
Yes I would have preferred to just draft a couple more RHD but you cannot plan a roster 5 years in the future by drafting positionally. Saying that , there are still some picks I question where the BPA was a RHD and we still didn’t make the pick. That’s where I have an issue with not having enough RHD .

When it comes to Wright and our C depth, it’s different because Hughes and Nico are our cornerstone core pieces where it is somewhat a little bit of a waste drafting another top 6 C .We are not trading eirher our C or Hughes signed long term , so potentially having Wright at 3C seems like wasted value.
If given a chance to fill a massive need with a talent that is close to as skilled as the position.we already are set at , in this specific case , I go need over a slight slight BAP

One disadvantage we had when it comes to our prospects is that our roster was so shitty that a few times , we were relying on kids to do way more than what should have been expected. Zacha is example #1.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

You can never have too many centers...and you can always move centers to wing if necessary.

 

[RangerDoggo]

I haven't been here in a while and we're still talking about Lou? There's not a single trace of his fingerprints left on this team. Move on already.

 

[Triumph]

I haven't been here in a while and we're still talking about Lou? There's not a single trace of his fingerprints left on this team. Move on already.

That's exactly the problem!

 

[JimEIV]

The “experiment” has been dealing with the reality that your guy left the team in absolute shambles. A disgrace, if you will.

Nonsense. We still haven't produced a forward to have scored 30 goals or a defensemen capable of players a real 20+ minutes....those things were here in 2015. So was a much better brand of goaltending. So was cap space and ton of picks.

I loved Palmieri but not using those picks in the 2015 draft, tossing around all those 3rd rounders like candy and trading down to get Blackwood exacerbated the weak Zacha pick. Trading Larsson for Hall in hindsight was also a disaster. Severson, Larsson and Merrill are nothing all that special but 8 years in we still haven't produced a defenseman as good as any of them. We haven't produced a goal scorer as good as Henrique either.

You can keep pushing the narrative nothing was here that's fine ...but 8 freaking years later and we are worse than when this started. 8 years a slew of picks and picking at the top of draft most years with 2 #1OA's and our best performance is 26 goals and 73 points from a 6th rounder? And not a single defenseman capable of playing top 4 minutes? Sorry, "nothing here" doesn't excuse this ineptitude.

 

[devilsblood]

I haven't been here in a while and we're still talking about Lou? There's not a single trace of his fingerprints left on this team. Move on already.

Sev's? Hopefully Wood bounces back.

Somehow there are Devils fans who are Lou haters. I guess they are too young to remember that we were once a near dynasty under his guidance. But this idea that he left the Devils with zero assets is bunk. Our 2nd best d-man last year is a Lou draftee. A guy we def need to sign.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

If Montreal drafts Slafkovsky I will gladly watch the Devils brass head up on stage and announce Shane Wright's name.

Point is moot anyway, because there's no chance Montreal passes on Wright.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I wonder if it is our drafting is shitty , or our player development is shitty , combination of both or just bad luck where the drafts we have picks in , are not great?

You can compare with two of the better teams in the league, Rags and Boston.

The Rangers effectively gave away Ryan McDonough AND JT Miller, as they haven't been able to develop any of the young players they acquired in that deal or that they drafted from the picks they obtained. They have not been able to develop picks like Kravstov and Kakko, drafted a bust in Lias Andersson and the jury is still out on the guy they were gifted at #1OA in Lafrenniere.

The Bruins gave away Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton, and drafted a Pavel Zacha clone and two Hugh Jessimans instead of Barzal, Kyle Connor and Tomas Chabot.

If the Devils emerge in the near future having drafted what could be the best 1-2-3 center depth in the league in Hughes, Hischier, Mercer, a bona fide No. 1 defenseman in Hughes, a near ppg forward in Bratt and if Slafkovsky/Wright comes near expectations, as well as non-first rounders who look like they'll end up playing more than 200 games in the league over their careers like Sharangovich, Ohutyuk, Bastian, Boqvist, you have a team that's done its job drafting. And that's without taking into account how good Holtz, Mukahamdulin, Gritsyuk, Daws might end up being.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Saying Lou left us high and dry doesn't take away from the 15-20 year run he had which brought 3 championships. Of course I am appreciative of that. But he DID leave us high and dry.

Both things can be (and are) true.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Nonsense. We still haven't produced a forward to have scored 30 goals or a defensemen capable of players a real 20+ minutes....those things were here in 2015. So was a much better brand of goaltending. So was cap space and ton of picks.

I loved Palmieri but not using those picks in the 2015 draft, tossing around all those 3rd rounders like candy and trading down to get Blackwood exacerbated the weak Zacha pick. Trading Larsson for Hall in hindsight was also a disaster. Severson, Larsson and Merrill are nothing all that special but 8 years in we still haven't produced a defenseman as good as any of them. We haven't produced a goal scorer as good as Henrique either.

You can keep pushing the narrative nothing was here that's fine ...but 8 freaking years later and we are worse than when this started. 8 years a slew of picks and picking at the top of draft most years with 2 #1OA's and our best performance is 26 goals and 73 points from a 6th rounder? And not a single defenseman capable of playing top 4 minutes? Sorry, "nothing here" doesn't excuse this ineptitude.

26 goals in 49 games. “Durrr injury prone”. Ignores goaltending and says we’re “worse than before”. Mr. Bad Faith. It’s so embarrassing.

 

[devilsblood]

You can never have too many centers...and you can always move centers to wing if necessary.

But you can have too few RHD. And we are there.

 

[JimEIV]

8 years and Smith is the best defenseman we've produced...I don't know how you you wrap your head around that.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I know this is as much about taking a well deserved jab at Jim as anything, but the Lou left this place in "absolute shambles" thing can def be argued against.

Not a great situation for sure, we stunk, but there were def tradeable pieces when he left, some of which were taken advantage of him, others(ie Cory) which were not, and even now there are more tradable pieces from his time here still on the roster.

I mean, the Shero narrative is now switching to "well he was never really in rebuild mode", which was certainly not the narrative during much of his time here, and does say something about Lou and what assets were on the roster when he left.

I can’t think of a single team currently in a worse position than we were in at that time. Maybe Philly? San Jose is rough but they at least have some talent. If that isn’t shambles, I don’t know what is.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

But you can have too few RHD. And we are there.

I mean, I guess so? I am far less concerned about that than others it seems....especially if Severson is extended. You'd then have your two top 4 RD signed longterm which kind of lessens the immediate need for RD prospects

Not to mention Luke played RD at Michigan all last year. Will that continue into the NHL? Who knows, but it might be an option.

 

[JimEIV]

26 goals in 49 games. “Durrr injury prone”. Ignores goaltending and says we’re “worse than before”. Mr. Bad Faith. It’s so embarrassing.

Great. It's still 26 goals. The only thing we have is "hope" and what "may" happen in the future.

That's not necessarily a bad thing but when you play the "future is bright" year after year and the results continue to get worse and worse it boarders on delusion.

 

[devilsblood]

Saying Lou left us high and dry doesn't take away from the 15-20 year run he had which brought 3 championships. Of course I am appreciative of that. But he DID leave us high and dry.

Both things can be (and are) true.

Again, we stunk, obviously, but I think people underplay the assets that were left.

For however dumb Edm was, Lars obviously had value in the league (goes to my point about current lack of rhd in the draft thread). Coleman was traded for a 1st rounder. Greene was traded. Zajac was a sweetener that helped get a 1st rounder, and maybe both guys could have been traded earlier? Cory was definitely held on too long, even if that is just a hindsight call.

Wood was at the top of our goal scoring board just last year. Sev's is still one of our better defenders.

Plus Lou's tenure was great overall, so yeah I will pick up that side of the debate.

 

[OmNomNom]

Great. It's still 26 goals. The only thing we have is "hope" and what "may" happen in the future.

That's not necessarily a bad thing but when you play the "future is bright" year after year and the results continue to get worse and worse it boarders on delusion.

not much else we can do though, it's all we've got

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

A couple of 2nd pairing DMen and middle six wingers.

Again, thats trash (relatively speaking)

But I don't have any interest in hashing this out anymore

 

[devilsblood]

I mean, I guess so? I am far less concerned about that than others it seems....especially if Severson is extended. You'd then have your two top 4 RD signed longterm which kind of lessens the immediate need for RD prospects

Not to mention Luke played RD at Michigan all last year. Will that continue into the NHL? Who knows, but it might be an option.

We said the same about Smith. Playing the off hand is one thing at lower levels, it's another at the NHL level. Thus we see so few guys doing it.

So for me Luke is a LHD, and our prospect pool is basically nil at RHD.

And while Sev's(Lou guy, who I agree needs to be signed) and Hamilton will take a huge chunk of the minutes in the upcoming years, we are drafting now for the years ahead when those guys are in their mid 30's. Need to replenish the pipeline.

 

[Devils731]

Great. It's still 26 goals. The only thing we have is "hope" and what "may" happen in the future.

That's not necessarily a bad thing but when you play the "future is bright" year after year and the results continue to get worse and worse it boarders on delusion.

As delusional as saying Jack Hughes would become over a point a game player faster than Joe Thornton when it’s crazy to think Hughes will ever approach those heights.

 

[devilsblood]

A couple of 2nd pairing DMen and middle six wingers.

Again, thats trash (relatively speaking)

But I don't have any interest in hashing this out anymore

One of whom we traded for a 1st rounder and who then went on to win a couple cups.

And oh yeah, an elite goalie. But Shero didn't trade him because he was making a playoff push in year 3. Lou's fault.

 

[devilsblood]

26 goals in 49 games. “Durrr injury prone”. Ignores goaltending and says we’re “worse than before”. Mr. Bad Faith. It’s so embarrassing.

I do think it's important Hughes plays 70+ games this upcoming season.

Nico and Bratt need to say on the ice too.

And heck let's throw Hamilton into that mix, a guy who was an absolute ironman before this past season.

 

[Eggtimer]

Nonsense. We still haven't produced a forward to have scored 30 goals or a defensemen capable of players a real 20+ minutes....those things were here in 2015. So was a much better brand of goaltending. So was cap space and ton of picks.

I loved Palmieri but not using those picks in the 2015 draft, tossing around all those 3rd rounders like candy and trading down to get Blackwood exacerbated the weak Zacha pick. Trading Larsson for Hall in hindsight was also a disaster. Severson, Larsson and Merrill are nothing all that special but 8 years in we still haven't produced a defenseman as good as any of them. We haven't produced a goal scorer as good as Henrique either.

You can keep pushing the narrative nothing was here that's fine ...but 8 freaking years later and we are worse than when this started. 8 years a slew of picks and picking at the top of draft most years with 2 #1OA's and our best performance is 26 goals and 73 points from a 6th rounder? And not a single defenseman capable of playing top 4 minutes? Sorry, "nothing here" doesn't excuse this ineptitude.

I agree with some things you say amd I can understand where you are comimg from , but I disagree with you saying that the Larsson for Hall trade ended up disasterous. Do you mean the original trade with Edmonton or what we ended up getting for Hall?
We stole Hall for Larsson , and I think we did “good” for the return on Hall to the Coyotes. At first I wasn’t happy with the return but ending up with Mercer made it miles better. I guess my expectations were too high where I was hoping the Avs would have given us a stud D or the Stars give us Harley (I think that’s who I was hoping for ?)

 

[HBK27]

I do think it's important Hughes plays 70+ games this upcoming season.

Nico and Bratt need to say on the ice too.

And heck let's throw Hamilton into that mix, a guy who was an absolute ironman before this past season.

Don't forget to include whoever our top 2 goalies will be this upcoming season in the mix!