Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

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JimEIV

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Feb 19, 2003
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Mercer is a core piece but Hischier isn't?

What's the logic there?

Also what are you trying to trade for?
Would you have called Zajac at any point of his career a core piece? Good player for sure, maybe even difficult to replace...but these aren't players you build around. Elite is what you build around. Pieces that are rare.

Mercer is still a wait and see.

We need so much but more than anything in my opinion is this team is in desperate need of dependable goal scoring especially in the top 6. But we can use more goal scoring in general.

We need more size throughout the lineup...but more than size a much stronger board presence and more willingness to play in the paint.

The defense was much improved this season but I do think Subban is going to leave a tough hole to fill. That, coupled with the potential of losing Severson and no RHD in the stable...the defense looks like it's headed for another revamp some time soon.

So a top 6 goal scorer, some players that thrive in the tough areas, a couple of defensemen, a goalie...

Yeah there's a lot to trade for.
 

JimEIV

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Feb 19, 2003
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My one contribution to this, to add some fuel to the fire, is that winning doesn't excuse poor drafting. Eventually it catches up to you. There are good players littered throughout most drafts, some of it is luck but your scouts ability plays a big role as well.

Drafting poor while losing exacerbates this issue, but make no mistake this team has been pretty terrible at drafting and developing for a long long time.
Yes it does... drafting is not the point of the game winning is however.

Winning also forces you to pick later in each round and trade picks and prospects to win.

Losing to get the best picks in each draft isn't good drafting having a pretty prospect pool and an average .400 winning percentage for a decade is f***ing pointless.

Winning is the only thing that actually matters.

A good way to finish off a rebuild is to trade your 23 year old captain coming off a career year that’s locked up for his prime. Big brain stuff.
Don't worry nobody would touch that shitty contract for a 2nd line center
 

NJDevs26

Once upon a time...
Mar 21, 2007
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Yeah, I'm reading people saying "we suck at developing players" and I'm looking at the roster wondering where that conclusion is coming from.
It comes from the fact we still have a huge question mark at goalie despite drafting a bunch including Blackwood, and haven't developed jack on defense unless you count Siegs, who was more of a reclamation project. Sure they've developed some forwards but two of them were also very high picks. We're basically hanging our hat on Bratt, Shara, plus a role guy here and there with not much else proven at the moment in terms of actually drafting and developing non top-five overall picks over the last decade.
 
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SteveCangialosi123

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Feb 17, 2012
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Don't worry nobody would touch that shitty contract for a 2nd line center
Obviously not true considering he is already clearly worth what he is paid, but if you believe this, please shut up about trading him. You don’t believe this though, you are doing your thing. Can you go back to making comically wrong posts about Jack? They’ll be fun to dig up when he hits triple digit points.
 

JimEIV

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Feb 19, 2003
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Obviously not true considering he is already clearly worth what he is paid, but if you believe this, please shut up about trading him. You don’t believe this though, you are doing your thing. Can you go back to making comically wrong posts about Jack? They’ll be fun to dig up when he hits triple digit points.

I am genuinely curious to see what other people think.
 

Triumph

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Oct 2, 2007
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In principle I agree.

But from 2016 to 2021 he was one of this teams best goal scores. That's not saying much, this team is devoid of goal scorers.

From 2018 to 2021 Nico and Wood have scored the same amount of goals with 57....Nico played 230 games and Wood 262....but one player is "not a very good player" and the other is a former #1 overall.

Yes, one is a player whose primary value is in goals and who does literally nothing else well, except hit I guess, and even that he doesn't do that great at. The other is a player who does everything else well - plays with the puck, without the puck, defense, etc. etc. and also scores goals, but wasn't an enormous goal scorer in junior hockey and wasn't projected to be a huge goal scorer at the NHL level, and is scoring at about the rate we'd expect, considering.
 
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Eggtimer

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Jul 4, 2011
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It's time to start trading pieces in my opinion.

Jack, Luke, and #2 are my most hopeful pieces for the future. Problem here is this group as a whole is probably 3 to 5 years away from full maturity assuming everything goes well.

Secondarily, Mercer and Bratt. Mercer we need to see progression...Bratt we need to see some sustainability. But Bratt"s potential contract scares me a bit. Would hate to shell out 7+ for a winger that reverts 50 to points. At that point he's no longer an asset.

Otherwise I don't see any core pieces here. I would like see some roster moves packaged with prospects.
What are some examples of moves you’d like to make? I know it’s hard as we don’t even know for sure who is even possibly available. Maybe a player we assume is untouchable might be available?
Im not sure what to think. I would be okay with moving Holtz if we got back a proven elite player. As much as it would be awesome to see him turn into a scoring machine riding shotgun with Jack or Nico , I dont know if he will be good enough at other aspects of the game to be the player we need him to be. It’s hard to know but he is probably the highest valued asset we have that I’d be okay with trading. Luke is 100 % off the table . Mercer , Giritsyuk (would like to see him in NA before seeing what to do with him at the very least) are not players I’d want to move unless we get a massive overpay .
 

NJDevs26

Once upon a time...
Mar 21, 2007
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Don't indulge the trade Nico fantasy, that's just gratuitous debate. It'll never happen and don't come back at me with 'but it should!', yeah a front office that just extended him while giving him the C is really going to trade him, and a rebuilding team trying to establish a culture should really trade its hardest working, best all-around player who's already under contract for several more years when we're gonna be biting our nails waiting for Bratt to sign this offseason. Trading Nico solves nothing, you have to build around him and Hughes, not cash out because the franchise lost for several years without them around and before they were ready to head a team.

They're losing because they have no goalie, suspect coaching, haven't developed defensemen and still don't have enough up front to surround Nico and Hughes - they aren't losing because Nico isn't Auston Mathews.
 

Devils090

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Feb 16, 2014
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Unless we’re getting a stud defenseman(who never get traded) Nico isn’t going anywhere and nor should he. Nothing to do with Jim and his charade, but I’d argue most teams in the league would love to have a 23 year old Nico as their 2C for the foreseeable future.
 

Buggsy

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Sep 16, 2009
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Halifax, NS
Would you have called Zajac at any point of his career a core piece? Good player for sure, maybe even difficult to replace...but these aren't players you build around. Elite is what you build around. Pieces that are rare.

Mercer is still a wait and see.

We need so much but more than anything in my opinion is this team is in desperate need of dependable goal scoring especially in the top 6. But we can use more goal scoring in general.

We need more size throughout the lineup...but more than size a much stronger board presence and more willingness to play in the paint.

The defense was much improved this season but I do think Subban is going to leave a tough hole to fill. That, coupled with the potential of losing Severson and no RHD in the stable...the defense looks like it's headed for another revamp some time soon.

So a top 6 goal scorer, some players that thrive in the tough areas, a couple of defensemen, a goalie...

Yeah there's a lot to trade for.
You would like to find bigger players that go to the dirty areas and win board battles so your plan is to trade one of our larger forward who goes to the dirty areas and wins board battles?

And yes Zajac in his prime was a core player.
 
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Triumph

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Oct 2, 2007
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Would you have called Zajac at any point of his career a core piece? Good player for sure, maybe even difficult to replace...but these aren't players you build around. Elite is what you build around. Pieces that are rare.

This is funny because Lou signed Zajac to an 8 year contract. But yes, you're right, not a core piece, he was just locking the guy up for 8 years because he thought he was one of his less important players.

That said, this is pure fatuousness once again.

Zajac through D+5 - 162 games, 76 points, 16:25 per game
Nico through D+5 - 300 games, 206 points, 17:55 per game

Hmm which of these players do I think is better, I don't know.

Mercer is still a wait and see.

lol. Mercer is the least wait and see player. He's not likely to be a star, but he's just going to be a real solid player. He thinks the game at a high level and has the ability to execute. A wait and see. Yeah. Let's see how this guy turns out.
 

JimEIV

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Lou gave Zajac an overpayment cause he was behind the eight ball after Parise bolted.
 
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Oneiro

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Cheddabombs

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Mar 13, 2012
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Yes it does... drafting is not the point of the game winning is however.

Winning also forces you to pick later in each round and trade picks and prospects to win.

Losing to get the best picks in each draft isn't good drafting having a pretty prospect pool and an average .400 winning percentage for a decade is f***ing pointless.

Winning is the only thing that actually matters.

It really doesn't and I can't see how anyone could say otherwise to be honest. There's no point in discussing anything if that's not a concept you agree with.
 

nugg

NJ Hammerhead Bats!
Apr 27, 2002
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Trying to litigate how drafting a different player would impact the team now involves too many variables for me. Makar is clearly the better player than Nico but switching the two would effect where we ended up in the standings in subsequent years. If we're even one spot off in 2019 we don't get Hughes.
Yes, the "Butterfly Effect" if you will.
 

JimEIV

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Feb 19, 2003
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After Bratt what has been the best performance from a drafted player in the last 8 years?
 

Guttersniped

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Again, we need to start the rebuild with the first Shero draft, which was 2016.

I'm going to expand upon this by saying 7th round picks who don't make it are not necessarily bad picks. For when he was picked, Davies was an excellent selection because he was a Nashville trade target and made the AHL.

Finally, we need to consider what defensemen were available when criticizing a pick. This is to say, it's tough to critique picking Reilly Walsh in 2017 unless you can find a defenseman who would have been a better pick to compare against him. Now, I'm not exactly in the Walsh fan club -- I like a steadier defensive presence in my own preference. However, we also must factor in that Walsh was taken at #81 overall in a draft where there is exactly ONE defenseman who looks capable of being above-average at the NHL level (Mike Anderson, #103 overall to LA).

In 2018, we can look at the Ty Smith pick critically, because a much better LD was taken later in the first round in K'Andre Miller. Those who follow me know I actually ranked Miller higher than any other draft ranker in the continent, rating him as a viable top 10 pick. But we also should temper my own criticism by mentioning that Smith's consensus ranking was in the 10-15 range, while Miller's was probably 25-35.

I'm also going to say there's no "who" for Zaitsev or "who knows" for Misyul, because to be frank, I know. Both of them are viable NHL prospects as defensive LD for a bottom pair. As such, Misyul was a good 3rd round pick and Zaitsev was an outstanding 7th round pick. Particularly with Zaitsev, he was picked #205 overall, and out of every player available he has enjoyed the best pro career, though obviously it has thus far been in the KHL. Either way, good pick. With Misyul, it's a bit murkier because there were a few D drafted after him who would probably rank a bit higher right now, like Spence and Thrun.

Speaking of the 2019 draft, you also omitted our #1 RD prospect in Case McCarthy, who was an outstanding pick in the 4th round and remains on track to be a physical, defensively sound bottom-4 guy at the NHL level.

And of course there's Luke Hughes -- who is currently in a five-way battle for #1 prospect on the planet along with Byfield, Power, Beniers and Sanderson. If we stick with the 2020 draft, Mukhamadullin also looks like a sound, if not spectacular, pick at #20 overall. He's still a 1st-rounder in a re-draft, though I'd probably slot him slightly lower, in the 25-32 range.
Yes, Jeremy Davies was taken at #192 in 2016.

He signed a 2 year ELC in 2019 and he’s one of 3 players who have played games from 2016 7th round. He’s played 22 games, the other two have played 8 and 3. (And 3 GP guy has gone back to Europe.)

Davies was close and was a trade chip (Santini was a cap dump & bought out by Nashville.)

Rykov would have made the Rangers out of camp if he hadn’t gotten injured in the 2019-20 preseason. He got buried in their depth, he was close too.

It was always frustrating to me that we didn’t keep more early picks and draft more defensemen before 2019, I would have liked to see what they have hit on with those swings.
 

SKNJD9

Hi, I'm mat.
Aug 28, 2008
35,573
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West of Chicago
Anyone following this Josh Weil saga on twitter ? He's a member of the front office on the marketing side it seems. Looks like he said a couple things about how agressive the hockey ops team plans on being this off- season. He deleted most of it now as some people were being dicks to him. https://twitter.com/JoshW_NJD
 
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