Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023-24 season part III

[forceten]

Saros is still a .903 this year, which is better than .888 or whatever VV is right now. He's 6 years younger than Markstrom and 7 inches shorter at 5'11"

 

[Ripshot 43]

 

[JrFischer54]

was this goalie coach the same as last year? how could vitek be ok last year and then horrible this year? is it the coach?

 

[Inno]

Time to roll with Daws and Schmid the rest of the year. Neither can be worse than Vanecek.

 

[longislanddevil]

whats that even going to cost?

1st holtz casey?

curious because i dont know

Good question. I suspect more than many of us, including myself, are willing to give.

 

[Forge]

Bring me BLACKWOOD!

As a fan who has absolutely nothing riding on this season and won't get in trouble if the team sucks, I'm mostly just whatever about it. I don't want the team to get desperate, and I understand that it's going to be a decent uphill climb to even make the playoffs at this point, so I'm not going to panic.

But obviously my situation is greatly different than the people actually involved.

If they did trade Holtz for Markstrom like Pagnotta hints at being of interest to both parties, I'd be sad, but also very happy for Holtz to get the damn hell away from Ruff lol

 

[Emperoreddy]

was this goalie coach the same as last year? how could vitek be ok last year and then horrible this year? is it the coach?

Same coach.

Vitek started falling off after December. He wasn't as bad as he was in the playoffs or right now, but he wasn't great either and was trending in the wrong direction.

This year he looks really off though. Not moving well, not swallowing pucks.

 

[Forge]

+ / - is obviously just not a worthwhile stat for the most part, but i'm just going to say....being a -25 in 36 games when the next highest player is a -16 is just absolutely brutal optically lol

 

[glenwo2]

Fitz is a moron if he does that

Until he proves otherwise and tries to fix the Goaltender situation...

Yes.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

I think we can't lose sight of how unlucky Fitz was with Crawford and Bernier. I don't think it's fair to say he should have anticipated those situations.

 

[Nocashstyle]

I think we can't lose sight of how unlucky Fitz was with Crawford and Bernier. I don't think it's fair to say he should have anticipated those situations.

Or that VV would be THIS bad. Vanecek was very league average “solid” last year. I don’t think regressing to the corpse of Cory Schneider was on anyone’s bingo card

 

[My3Sons]

I like the player a lot. But I’m in favor of trading Toffoli for a few reasons.

1.) He should command a 1st rounder. We can use that for a goalie.

2.) We can still compete for the playoffs without him. I don’t think Toffoli makes or breaks this squad.

3.) Guys like Meier Holtz and Mercer can slot into the top 6 better. Especially Meier who SHOULD be playing RW in our top 6.


Do it Lou

I’m going to add a fourth reason. Although some are suggesting it sends a bad message, this isn’t the season to worry about it. The team hasn’t shown it will compete for whatever reason *cough* Ruff and the goalies *cough* and they haven’t earned a boost from management. The playoff push buying at the deadline should be a reward not an obligation. That said someone shared the email to season ticket holders and my guess is they do something they shouldn’t at some point this season.

 

[Devils Trap]

+ / - is obviously just not a worthwhile stat for the most part, but i'm just going to say....being a -25 in 36 games when the next highest player is a -16 is just absolutely brutal optically lol

+/- is a useless stat. Timo has also been on the ice for the single worst save % of any forward in the NHL this year. For whatever reason, goalies do not save the puck when hes on the ice.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I think we can't lose sight of how unlucky Fitz was with Crawford and Bernier. I don't think it's fair to say he should have anticipated those situations.

Especially since Crawford explained what happened.

 

[devilsblood]

I’m going to add a fourth reason. Although some are suggesting it sends a bad message, this isn’t the season to worry about it. The team hasn’t shown it will compete for whatever reason *cough* Ruff and the goalies *cough* and they haven’t earned a boost from management. The playoff push buying at the deadline should be a reward not an obligation. That said someone shared the email to season ticket holders and my guess is they do something they shouldn’t at some point this season.

I think this is categorically incorrect.

The team battles back from deficits consistently. The team has battled through a ton injuries. The team has battled through lousy goal tending.

To trade away good players, instead of making a trade to address what is the clear number one issue, very much does send a bad message.

 

[bossram]

That wasn't his point lmao, the goalie issue is deeply rooted to Ruff/Roglaski. Rogalski has gotten multiple goaltenders and almost every single one has looked better as soon as they left NJ which has to do with coaching. We get Markstrom and he looks like ass this year, then what?

100%, Markstrom is good because this team does give high danger chances more than most due to Lindy's dumbass system but Markstrom is one of the best goalies in high danger and just in general xGSA

Agreed. Step 1: Fire Lindy and goalie coach.

Markstrom would be an ideal fit with NJ. I've listed to Woodley's hits on this. Markstrom uses his athleticism and size to stop high-danger, laterally moving chances better than most goalies. He's relatively not as great compared to other goalies when asked to stop a clean shooter 1v1.

Contrast that to someone like Adin Hill. The platonic ideal of a big, "blocking" goalie. Vegas allows outside looks all day, because Hill swallows them. They allow very in-tight/crease "high-danger" chances because another strength of Hill is sealing the ice with his big legs. Vegas' defensive system solely tries to prevent those mid-range slot shots, which is a relative weakness for Hill.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I think this is categorically incorrect.

The team battles back from deficits consistently. The team has battled through a ton injuries. The team has battled through lousy goal tending.

To trade away good players, instead of making a trade to address what is the clear number one issue, very much does send a bad message.

They were shit and had slow starts against some of the worst teams in the league back in October/November, I don't care what message it sends if they trade Toffoli and not getting a goalie. Maybe this year is a wake up call they couldn't rest on their laurels from last year and every season is different.

 

[devilsblood]

+/- is a useless stat. Timo has also been on the ice for the single worst save % of any forward in the NHL this year. For whatever reason, goalies do not save the puck when hes on the ice.

His on ice numbers stink. Specifically his defensive numbers. Worst shots against rate. Worst scoring chance against rate. Worst High Danger chance against rate.

Really not surprising he also has the worst on ice save %

PS: I did take a liberty or two with those defensive metrics, as Willman and his 13 games and Nosek and his 8 games has him beat on a couple of those metrics.

 

[My3Sons]

I think this is categorically incorrect.

The team battles back from deficits consistently. The team has battled through a ton injuries. The team has battled through lousy goal tending.

To trade away good players, instead of making a trade to address what is the clear number one issue, very much does send a bad message.

Where did I say it doesn’t send a bad message? My point is that if the team is in the same spot on TDL day they deserve the bad message. Not in a mean way but selling is what happens when you fall short in the NHL. They could use a bad message if they don’t get it together. All their battling has gotten them to meh. I’m not suggesting the team is bad but it’s had a bad season. If they go in a run up to the TDL then sure be a buyer. If they are 7-10 points out of a spot then and still floundering I’m sorry but the battling hasn’t really done enough. You can see it differently if you want. Just my opinion.

 

[Forge]

+/- is a useless stat. Timo has also been on the ice for the single worst save % of any forward in the NHL this year. For whatever reason, goalies do not save the puck when hes on the ice.

Useless or not, still rough optically

 

[Barry Tallackson]

Glad to see others have given up on the season, it was clear in December #barrywasright

 

[devilsblood]

They were shit and had slow starts against some of the worst teams in the league back in October/November, I don't care what message it sends if they trade Toffoli and not getting a goalie. Maybe this year is a wake up call they couldn't rest on their laurels from last year and every season is different.

This board, for good reason, hates on the goalies but then ignores that the goalies undermine everything this team tries to do.

The "slow start" are often just soft goals against.

Where did I say it doesn’t send a bad message? My point is that if the team is in the same spot on TDL day they deserve the bad message. Not in a mean way but selling is what happens when you fall short in the NHL. They could use a bad message if they don’t get it together. All their battling has gotten them to meh. I’m not suggesting the team is bad but it’s had a bad season. If they go in a run up to the TDL then sure be a buyer. If they are 7-10 points out of a spot then and still floundering I’m sorry but the battling hasn’t really done enough. You can see it differently if you want. Just my opinion.

If the problem is the goalies, why does the team deserve the bad message?

 

[Barry Tallackson]

The hard truths:
-We lost the Toffoli trade
-We lost the Timo trade
-Palat’s contract was a disaster the day it was signed
-Timo’s contract has negative value
-Jack Hughes is injury prone
-Nico is one concussion away from Nolan Patrick
-Our 4C is going to prison
-We have the worst goalie in the league

Did I miss anything?

 

[Nocashstyle]

The hard truths:
-We lost the Toffoli trade
-We lost the Timo trade
-Palat’s contract was a disaster the day it was signed
-Timo’s contract has negative value
-Jack Hughes is injury prone
-Nico is one concussion away from Nolan Patrick
-Our 4C is going to prison
-We have the worst goalie in the league

Did I miss anything?

That you’re being comically over emotional and reactionary

 

[JK3]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen people on here pining for a 47 year old goalie before and willing to pay whatever ridiculous price for him.

How long is this guy going to be around before he falls apart and we ship him to the glue factory?