Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023-24 season part III

[My3Sons]

I’m quoting myself like a psychopath because I ended being right for once on a ranking guess, we came in 22nd Wheeler’s Prospect Pool Rankings today.

From the old post (each list has 15 prospects if not listed as less).
32 (-5) NYI
31 (-7) FLA
30 (0) BOS
29 (+2) TBL
28 (-10) TOR
27 (+2) PIT/ 12 players
26 (+6) COL/ 10 players
And then we did pass 3 of the 4 teams I listed.
25 (-4) EDM/ 13 players
24 (+2) FLA/ 14 players
23 (0) VGK
22 (-20) NJD

The big shocker is we’re 22nd with Nemec, though he graduated Schmid. I guess the loss of depth hurt us more than Nemec and few players could make up. (Not sure how we didn’t beat VAN with Nemec but whatever lol.)

As you can see, we graduated 7 players and all 8 eligible players returned.

We manage to fill 5 of the 7 open spots. As predicted, the 2023 draftees were the three Wheeler liked before the draft: Hameenaho, Karpovich and Squires.

His final cut from last year, Orlov, and Edwards finish the list.

I thought we might get to 15 with Malek and Schlaine, since both were honorable mentions last year, but only Malek remains as a HM.

It seems like Wheeler is being more selective this year with who he includes. Last year only the thinnest of pools had 14 players. This time he’s culled a lot of fringier players so several pools have way less than 15.

2023 (graduates crossed out)View attachment 817010
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vs
2024
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If Nemec is still a prospect I struggle to see 22 teams ahead of NJ for prospect rankings. Look at him in thr NHL and tell me what teams are ahead of them just based on him alone? Philly? Ok sure. Chicago?? If Bedard is still a prospect ok. But a team like MTL? Reinbacher? Maybe but I doubt he’s looking as good as Nemec in thr NHL if he was even in thr NHL. Having a bunch of second tier prospects who maybe pan out to be bottom six or bottom pair guys is nice but that’s not generally moving the needle (exceptions of course but they typically don’t show up for a number of seasons). Sorry, I ain’t buying this.

 

[NjDevsRR]

I like the player a lot. But I’m in favor of trading Toffoli for a few reasons.

1.) He should command a 1st rounder. We can use that for a goalie.

2.) We can still compete for the playoffs without him. I don’t think Toffoli makes or breaks this squad.

3.) Guys like Meier Holtz and Mercer can slot into the top 6 better. Especially Meier who SHOULD be playing RW in our top 6.


Do it Lou

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

At the NHL level we have nothing after our top two centers, and no young scoring wingers behind Bratt and Holtz. We didn’t draft a goalie in 2023 and the guy we drafted in 2022 finished his CHL career with a sub .900 and is now in the ECHL.

Malek is probably our best goaltending prospect at this point, and he hasn’t even played in North America yet.

We have nothing after our top two centers is just a very funny thing to say considering one guy is the most talented player in franchise history and the other is an excellent 1C playing 2C for us. It’s not as though you need a whole lot behind that, but we do still have Haula and Lazar even after the guy that emerged as an elite 3C vanished. I’d say we’re A ok in that department.

We have no young scoring wingers behind Bratt (one of the most talented wings in franchise history) and Holtz. Okay…we have Meier signed long term, Mercer, etc.

Really silly characterization of the state of things, seemingly ignoring all strengths and the way most teams around the league are looking. We’re in excellent shape in the short, medium, and long term.

 

[TrufleShufle]

I like the player a lot. But I’m in favor of trading Toffoli for a few reasons.

1.) He should command a 1st rounder. We can use that for a goalie.

2.) We can still compete for the playoffs without him. I don’t think Toffoli makes or breaks this squad.

3.) Guys like Meier Holtz and Mercer can slot into the top 6 better. Especially Meier who SHOULD be playing RW in our top 6.


Do it Lou

I would trade him for someone younger, NHL ready, can pk, likes legos and has an adorable smile.

 

[AfroThunder396]

I mean yeah, their biggest guys just graduated. They also just made a massive Timo Meier trade which dipped into some of those prospects even though everyone in the draft community shat on the Muk pick. I have no worries about this team's prospect pool being bad if the actual roster is good.

I do think this is a long-term concern - all of the guys we sent to SJ were replaceable, but not right now. Cultivating a good farm system takes time. We can't be reckless spending our assets, once they're gone they're gone and it takes years to replace them.

Last year we had one pick in the top-120. You can shoot your load like that every so often, but that just isn't sustainable long term. It's easier to justify when you have a great stock of young NHL talent and some blue chip guys on the way. But still. We're going to be missing our 2nd AGAIN this year. In 3-5 years we're going to need cheap ELC players and those should be players that we select now.

I cringe when the 'DO SOEMTING' crowd wants us to recklessly throw picks out the window just to say we did something. If it actually solves the problem, sure. If you're just rolling the dice on another Vitek who will look good for 30 games and then forget how to play, nah, get out of here with that.

 

[JrFischer54]

Yeah I prefer we do something sooner and not later, but I doubt there is going to be a situation where we totally fall out, simply because we do manage to scrap enough wins together to stay afloat and the teams around us are on similar win some, lose some, patterns.

People thought Tampa was pulling away and they are back to shitting the bed. There is no consistency on the bubble right now.

But we can't wait forever. We got head to head games with Philly that really need to be wins

said it before will say it again. if you are going to get a goalie in the summer just bite the bullet and get him now and see if you can get a playoff run out of it. why wait and burn a year why as fans do we want to burn a year? as bad as this season has been the team is still pretty close to a playoff spot.

 

[Emperoreddy]

said it before will say it again. if you are going to get a goalie in the summer just bite the bullet and get him now and see if you can get a playoff run out of it. why wait and burn a year why as fans do we want to burn a year? as bad as this season has been the team is still pretty close to a playoff spot.

There is zero reason to be in favor of burning a year outside of hoping it will cost Ruff his job.

And as a fan, even if I want Ruff gone yesterday, I'm not going to root for this team to lose games so he gets shit canned.

The slightly higher 1st rounder means legit nothing to me. Draft position 100% should not be a thought for anyone in this organization right now.

 

[Brodeur]

I like the player a lot. But I’m in favor of trading Toffoli for a few reasons.

1.) He should command a 1st rounder. We can use that for a goalie.

Not sure Toffoli fetches a first with how things are right now. Usually centers / D get valued more and a decent chunk of the late first rounders have already been dealt:

21. Los Angeles - limited cap space, probably not a need
22. Toronto - wing probably not a need
23. Carolina - owner doesn't like paying big on rentals
24. Edmonton - limited cap space but apparently looking for top 6 winger
25. Vegas - aggressive owner but maybe doesn't fit
26. Colorado -- probably a bigger need for 2C
27. Winnipeg (already dealt to Montreal)
28. Florida (already dealt to Philadelphia)
29. NY Rangers
30. Dallas -- wing probably not a need
31. Boston (already dealt to Ottawa)
32. Vancouver (already dealt to Calgary)

 

[longislanddevil]

Do the Devils go all-in for Markstrom? — The Fourth Period

David Pagnotta examines the Devils goalie dilemma, the Stars in the D market, Toronto’s options, and much more.

www.thefourthperiod.com

I’m bullish on Holtz as long term replacement for Toffoli. Not interested in trading him in a deal for Markstrom. I’d trade a 1st and 3rd (maybe a 2024 2nd) but if Calgary wants a top prospect…sorry.

I do like Markstrom but if we make a deal, we are likely, if lucky, getting two more years with him possibly playing at a high level. A 34 year old goalie could also fall off a cliff. It really all depends on the price.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I think there is some sense to this idea of certain goalies not fitting systems.

Vitek and his inability to swallow pucks is a massive liability to how we play. And the answer is either completely change how we play to suit Vitek, or you get a goalie that can play in this system.

It's a big reason why Schmid was so effective last season. He never had loose change.

 

[JrFischer54]

I do think this is a long-term concern - all of the guys we sent to SJ were replaceable, but not right now. Cultivating a good farm system takes time. We can't be reckless spending our assets, once they're gone they're gone and it takes years to replace them.

Last year we had one pick in the top-120. You can shoot your load like that every so often, but that just isn't sustainable long term. It's easier to justify when you have a great stock of young NHL talent and some blue chip guys on the way. But still. We're going to be missing our 2nd AGAIN this year. In 3-5 years we're going to need cheap ELC players and those should be players that we select now.

I cringe when the 'DO SOEMTING' crowd wants us to recklessly throw picks out the window just to say we did something. If it actually solves the problem, sure. If you're just rolling the dice on another Vitek who will look good for 30 games and then forget how to play, nah, get out of here with that.

uh so?


2019 7 picks within top 120 only jack doing anything
2020 6 picks top 120 (3 first rounders) mercer great holtz eh muk just finally breaking into the league 3 years later again all first round picks daws jury still out
2021 4 picks top 120 only luke doing anything high first round pick
2022 4 picks top 120 only nemec doing anything high first round pick

the devils have plenty of picks in the last x amount of years within the top 120 and produced not much.


why else would you make a move if you aren't going to attempt to solve a problem? the devils need a goalie you think fitz is going to go and trade for a first line winger? no hes going to trade for a goalie to attempt to fix the problem. thats not making a move to make a move

 

[Cheddabombs]

Where new coach, where new goalie, where changes

 

[NjDevsRR]

Where new coach, where new goalie, where changes

 

[CalamityX23]

33 games left, gotta go 23-10

Lets do it... pull up a 8 game win streak to start us off.....

come on, don't be shy now.

 

[Nocashstyle]

Do the Devils go all-in for Markstrom? — The Fourth Period

David Pagnotta examines the Devils goalie dilemma, the Stars in the D market, Toronto’s options, and much more.

www.thefourthperiod.com

I’m bullish on Holtz as long term replacement for Toffoli. Not interested in trading him in a deal for Markstrom. I’d trade a 1st and 3rd (maybe a 2024 2nd) but if Calgary wants a top prospect…sorry.

I do like Markstrom but if we make a deal, we are likely, if lucky, getting two more years with him possibly playing at a high level. A 34 year old goalie could also fall off a cliff. It really all depends on the price.

I’d much rather just overpay even more to get Saros.

 

[JrFischer54]

I’d much rather just overpay even more to get Saros.

whats that even going to cost?

1st holtz casey?

curious because i dont know

 

[Emperoreddy]

Saros is going to cost a lot

 

[Nocashstyle]

Yeah Saros would definitely cost a lot, but I’m saying, I would rather overpay more premium assets for someone that’s actually worth it, as opposed to giving up less premium assets, nonetheless still overpaying, for a 34 year old Markstrom who probably wouldn’t be worth it.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I do think this is a long-term concern - all of the guys we sent to SJ were replaceable, but not right now. Cultivating a good farm system takes time. We can't be reckless spending our assets, once they're gone they're gone and it takes years to replace them.

Last year we had one pick in the top-120. You can shoot your load like that every so often, but that just isn't sustainable long term. It's easier to justify when you have a great stock of young NHL talent and some blue chip guys on the way. But still. We're going to be missing our 2nd AGAIN this year. In 3-5 years we're going to need cheap ELC players and those should be players that we select now.

I cringe when the 'DO SOEMTING' crowd wants us to recklessly throw picks out the window just to say we did something. If it actually solves the problem, sure. If you're just rolling the dice on another Vitek who will look good for 30 games and then forget how to play, nah, get out of here with that.

I have more an issue of them thinking that having Rogalski and Ruff who are the two biggest issues in the organization should be rewarded with an elite goalie/trade are gonna solve absolutely anything with regards to this year and agreed to the above points as well. Those trades are fine when you can add guys long term to your core like Meier + want to go for it all at the deadline. Usually the latter is when you're competing consistently for cups which is a level the Devils haven't attainedl yet.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

I think there is some sense to this idea of certain goalies not fitting systems.

Vitek and his inability to swallow pucks is a massive liability to how we play. And the answer is either completely change how we play to suit Vitek, or you get a goalie that can play in this system.

It's a big reason why Schmid was so effective last season. He never had loose change.

What the heck system benefits from a goalie that is a combination of a pinball bumper and flippers? I can't think of a single system that would benefit from a goalie that kicks out random rebounds all over the place...

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

uh so?


2019 7 picks within top 120 only jack doing anything
2020 6 picks top 120 (3 first rounders) mercer great holtz eh muk just finally breaking into the league 3 years later again all first round picks daws jury still out
2021 4 picks top 120 only luke doing anything high first round pick
2022 4 picks top 120 only nemec doing anything high first round pick

the devils have plenty of picks in the last x amount of years within the top 120 and produced not much.


why else would you make a move if you aren't going to attempt to solve a problem? the devils need a goalie you think fitz is going to go and trade for a first line winger? no hes going to trade for a goalie to attempt to fix the problem. thats not making a move to make a move

That wasn't his point lmao, the goalie issue is deeply rooted to Ruff/Roglaski. Rogalski has gotten multiple goaltenders and almost every single one has looked better as soon as they left NJ which has to do with coaching. We get Markstrom and he looks like ass this year, then what?

I think there is some sense to this idea of certain goalies not fitting systems.

Vitek and his inability to swallow pucks is a massive liability to how we play. And the answer is either completely change how we play to suit Vitek, or you get a goalie that can play in this system.

It's a big reason why Schmid was so effective last season. He never had loose change.

100%, Markstrom is good because this team does give high danger chances more than most due to Lindy's dumbass system but Markstrom is one of the best goalies in high danger and just in general xGSA

 

[Forge]

Saros is going to cost a lot

I'm at the point where I'm okay with that

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I like Saros but if you notice Fitz's trend in goalies and dmen, he's definitely someone who prefers height in those 2 positions.

 

[Forge]

I like Saros but if you notice Fitz's trend in goalies and dmen, he's definitely someone who prefers height in those 2 positions.

Yeah, I'd say that's accurate.

Doesn't change my mind at all, but obviously does suggest that Fitz may not be as into the acquisition as I am lol

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Yeah, I'd say that's accurate.

Doesn't change my mind at all, but obviously does suggest that Fitz may not be as into the acquisition as I am lol

Ya I think Markstrom is a better fit for this Devils team under Lindy (LOL) but Saros is obviously the better goalie imo even with the down year. Issue is you have to give him a very bloated deal but at this point, the Devils can't be picky with Saros's ask