Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023-24 season part III

[Blackjack]

I’m quoting myself like a psychopath because I ended being right for once on a ranking guess, we came in 22nd Wheeler’s Prospect Pool Rankings today.

From the old post (each list has 15 prospects if not listed as less).
32 (-5) NYI
31 (-7) FLA
30 (0) BOS
29 (+2) TBL
28 (-10) TOR
27 (+2) PIT/ 12 players
26 (+6) COL/ 10 players
And then we did pass 3 of the 4 teams I listed.
25 (-4) EDM/ 13 players
24 (+2) FLA/ 14 players
23 (0) VGK
22 (-20) NJD

The big shocker is we’re 22nd with Nemec, though he graduated Schmid. I guess the loss of depth hurt us more than Nemec and few players could make up. (Not sure how we didn’t beat VAN with Nemec but whatever lol.)

As you can see, we graduated 7 players and all 8 eligible players returned.

We manage to fill 5 of the 7 open spots. As predicted, the 2023 draftees were the three Wheeler liked before the draft: Hameenaho, Karpovich and Squires.

His final cut from last year, Orlov, and Edwards finish the list.

I thought we might get to 15 with Malek and Schlaine, since both were honorable mentions last year, but only Malek remains as a HM.

It seems like Wheeler is being more selective this year with who he includes. Last year only the thinnest of pools had 14 players. This time he’s culled a lot of fringier players so several pools have way less than 15.

2023 (graduates crossed out)View attachment 817010
View attachment 817014
vs
2024
View attachment 817015

Yikes, if we’re only 22nd with Nemec we need to be adding picks and prospects with some urgency.

 

[AfroThunder396]

We finished last year with the 4th youngest roster in the league and got younger as this season went on due to injuries and callups. All of our best U-23 players are in the NHL, who cares if they're "prospects" or not.

Like, The Hockey Writers has Brandt Clarke as the 2nd best prospect in the world, while a younger Luke Hughes is not eligible because of his NHL games played.

Nico Daws is still considered a prospect. He's 5 months older than Jack Hughes. This is silly.

 

[Billdo]

toffoli puts up points but he doesn’t fit the team identity.

last years team was one of the fastest teams i’ve ever seen. teams couldn’t keep up with us when they were rolling and it’s how we were able to turn it on and climb back into games seemingly at will.

toffolis not the only reason why there’s a step back but it’s noticeable that he’s not fast enough on the forecheck or d zone or breakouts to make the team better when he’s not shooting the puck

Faster, younger 30 goal scorers are also more expensive. Toffoli has been fine but I don't anticipate him being here next year.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I mean yeah, their biggest guys just graduated. They also just made a massive Timo Meier trade which dipped into some of those prospects even though everyone in the draft community shat on the Muk pick. I have no worries about this team's prospect pool being bad if the actual roster is good.

 

[Normal Devil]

Fitz is running out of time. If he wants to make a trade he needs to already trade for a Jake Allen or Kappo Kahkonen now.

I'd take a flyer on whatever goalie doesn't cost us any serious prospects or 1st round picks. VV's just not good enough .. he's costing us games. I'm sure just about anyone would be an upgrade over him at this point. We need to be just good enough to get some playoff action .. this team isn't a serious threat to win a title even with a guy like Markstrom. We can do a bigger deal on down the road.

 

[Call Me Al]

we can afford to trade a 1st round pick now. we have a young core we’re not an aging team desperate to restock. we have our top pairing, two centers and at least 2-3 core wingers for the future. we don’t have a goalie.

distinguishing between prospects and young nhlers doesn’t make sense to me. we have one of if not the best crop of under 25 players in the league, but not having a goalie is hurting their development. (also shitty coaching lol)

 

[Blackjack]

We finished last year with the 4th youngest roster in the league and got younger as this season went on due to injuries and callups. All of our best U-23 players are in the NHL, who cares if they're "prospects" or not.

Like, The Hockey Writers has Brandt Clarke as the 2nd best prospect in the world, while a younger Luke Hughes is not eligible because of his NHL games played.

Nico Daws is still considered a prospect. He's 5 months older than Jack Hughes. This is silly.

Do you really disagree that we need to draft/develop more centers, goaltenders, and scoring wingers?

If you feel that the pool of defensemen is strong enough as is I wouldn’t have an issue with that.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

I'd be all for trading big time assets for basically any other position than goalie. I'm just desperately afraid that any goalie we aquire will turn into the pumpkin that all of them that are available are in short order. It's so much easier to know a center, winger or D man is going to continue to be good than a goalie. We are talking about trading a top D prospect + for a goalie that, as recently as a year or two ago, could be had for peanuts.

 

[Blackjack]

we can afford to trade a 1st round pick now. we have a young core we’re not an aging team desperate to restock. we have our top pairing, two centers and at least 2-3 core wingers for the future. we don’t have a goalie.

distinguishing between prospects and young nhlers doesn’t make sense to me. we have one of if not the best crop of under 25 players in the league, but not having a goalie is hurting their development. (also shitty coaching lol)

The difference is that prospects come in on cheap contracts to compliment the expensive stars. It’s great that Hughes, Bratt, et al. are still young, but they’re not cheap anymore. Having a shit year like this is the perfect chance to give a mid-window boost to the prospect pool.

 

[bossram]

We finished last year with the 4th youngest roster in the league and got younger as this season went on due to injuries and callups. All of our best U-23 players are in the NHL, who cares if they're "prospects" or not.

Like, The Hockey Writers has Brandt Clarke as the 2nd best prospect in the world, while a younger Luke Hughes is not eligible because of his NHL games played.

Nico Daws is still considered a prospect. He's 5 months older than Jack Hughes. This is silly.

Yep. The Devils have a young core and most of their important players are locked up. There is no issue with having a mid-table prospect pool. It should be the last of their concerns.

Their contention window is now. Winning should be the sole focus. With the forward core finally healthy, you could see last night they can do some damage. Lindy and the goalie coach needs to get fired. And they desperately need to move on from leaky VV who lets in 2 eminently stoppable goals per night. Again, last night was an encapsulation of this.

I'd be all for trading big time assets for basically any other position than goalie. I'm just desperately afraid that any goalie we aquire will turn into the pumpkin that all of them that are available are in short order. It's so much easier to know a center, winger or D man is going to continue to be good than a goalie. We are talking about trading a top D prospect + for a goalie that, as recently as a year or two ago, could be had for peanuts.

Before this season I was absolutely of the same mind (goalies are voodoo). But at this point, I've just seen enough of VV. Fire the goalie coach, trade for some other goalie, literally anyone. Can't be worse.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Do you really disagree that we need to draft/develop more centers, goaltenders, and scoring wingers?

If you feel that the pool of defensemen is strong enough as is I wouldn’t have an issue with that.

Every single team in the NHL needs to keep drafting and developing players. We have an unbelievable wealth of young talent. It’s never been less of an issue for this franchise. We need to draft centers now that McLeod is gone though.

 

[Guttersniped]

 

[TheUnseenHand]

Yep. The Devils have a young core and most of their important players are locked up. There is no issue with having a mid-table prospect pool. It should be the last of their concerns.

Their contention window is now. Winning should be the sole focus. With the forward core finally healthy, you could see last night they can do some damage. Lindy and the goalie coach needs to get fired. And they desperately need to move on from leaky VV who lets in 2 eminently stoppable goals per night. Again, last night was an encapsulation of this.


Before this season I was absolutely of the same mind (goalies are voodoo). But at this point, I've just seen enough of VV. Fire the goalie coach, trade for some other goalie, literally anyone. Can't be worse.

Well, that's the thing. We can sign a literally anyone else in the off-season without losing a big asset. That's where I'm at.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

The difference is that prospects come in on cheap contracts to compliment the expensive stars. It’s great that Hughes, Bratt, et al. are still young, but they’re not cheap anymore. Having a shit year like this is the perfect chance to give a mid-window boost to the prospect pool.

Our two best Ds are on ELCs. And Hughes and Bratt are insanely cheap for what they bring and will look cheaper and cheaper every year. Unfortunately that is more than offset by what Timo has brought in year 1 of his deal — some of the worst bang for your buck in the entire league.

 

[Guttersniped]

I mean yeah, their biggest guys just graduated. They also just made a massive Timo Meier trade which dipped into some of those prospects even though everyone in the draft community shat on the Muk pick. I have no worries about this team's prospect pool being bad if the actual roster is good.

Wheeler liked Muk, that’s part of the reason our pool was #2 last season.

But it was #2 last season, we’re still seeing the benefits there. I believe in good asset management, we can’t just start bleeding out with assets just because we’re competing, but 22nd isn’t that bad after so many players graduating and no 2023 1st or 3rd.

 

[bossram]

Officially done with Vitek and Toffoli. Toffoli is gonna score 30 but isn't a player you win a cup with. Provides absolutely nothing if he isn't scoring.

I get that everyone has kinda hopped off the Toffoli wagon, but he's literally won multiple Cups man. He's far from the biggest issue.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Wheeler liked Muk, that’s part of the reason our pool was #2 last season.

But it was #2 last season, we’re still seeing the benefits there. I believe in good asset management, we can’t just start bleeding out with assets just because we’re competing, but 22nd isn’t that bad after so many players graduating and no 2023 1st or 3rd.

Ya, for sure. I think it's just natural for our pool to become that bad in rankings. Plus we shouldn't be picking high and competing with bad teams to have a good one in the first place. As long as it's 15th-25th while we're competing I'm ok.

 

[bossram]

the problem to me isn’t just that it’s so many rookies in d, but it’s that we play a system that requires them to go against their instincts and so much of what they’re taught. it’s that we have 2 guys behind the net and need timo meier to read the play and cover the back door instead of the point on what should be simple coverage but somehow makes the other team look like a bunch of gretzky’s.

i’m sure our rookie d men would look better if it was as easy as one guy goes behind and in the corners and the other covers the front of the net but we’re stuck with this

Systems are a huge issue with this team, and it's been discussed a ton on this board. The solution is easy and obvious: They have to fire Lindy.

 

[RNCDevil]

We will never know but I suspect Fitzs knows this is a lost season; regression and losses to Dougie, Timo (my guess), Mercer, VV, Siegs, Marino, Mike M are HUGE minutes coupled with two children on defense (who are doing pretty well all things considered). That's too much to overcome. I hope he can be a seller and they come back next year with a more mature team.

 

[Blackjack]

Every single team in the NHL needs to keep drafting and developing players. We have an unbelievable wealth of young talent. It’s never been less of an issue for this franchise. We need to draft centers now that McLeod is gone though.

At the NHL level we have nothing after our top two centers, and no young scoring wingers behind Bratt and Holtz. We didn’t draft a goalie in 2023 and the guy we drafted in 2022 finished his CHL career with a sub .900 and is now in the ECHL.

Malek is probably our best goaltending prospect at this point, and he hasn’t even played in North America yet.

 

[JrFischer54]

The difference is that prospects come in on cheap contracts to compliment the expensive stars. It’s great that Hughes, Bratt, et al. are still young, but they’re not cheap anymore. Having a shit year like this is the perfect chance to give a mid-window boost to the prospect pool.

if you think hughes is expensive now cant wait for you to see him on his next contract.

this is the window the devils have to win in now. i dont care about cheap prospect contracts 4-5 years from now because the chances those players even panning out are so incredibly small.

the team needs a goalie NOW for this window go ahead trade a first round pick which should fall in the mid to late round and whatever prospect in the ahl to get a goalie!

worry about this window and winning now not trying to play cap guru 4 years from now.

 

[Emperoreddy]

 

[JrFischer54]

We will never know but I suspect Fitzs knows this is a lost season; regression and losses to Dougie, Timo (my guess), Mercer, VV, Siegs, Marino, Mike M are HUGE minutes coupled with two children on defense (who are doing pretty well all things considered). That's too much to overcome. I hope he can be a seller and they come back next year with a more mature team.

you become more mature by playing meaningful hockey games late in the season. if the gm packed it in already im sure the locker room knows this too. i'm pretty sure the kids on this team have a long track record of losing and not playing meaningful games late in the year. exactly what they need to grow. NOT

good but this type of news has been coming out for weeks so its getting a little late in the year to make a difference. should've just made a move in dec

 

[Emperoreddy]

you become more mature by playing meaningful hockey games late in the season. if the gm packed it in already im sure the locker room knows this too. i'm pretty sure the kids on this team have a long track record of losing and not playing meaningful games late in the year. exactly what they need to grow. NOT



good but this type of news has been coming out for weeks so its getting a little late in the year to make a difference. should've just made a move in dec

Yeah I prefer we do something sooner and not later, but I doubt there is going to be a situation where we totally fall out, simply because we do manage to scrap enough wins together to stay afloat and the teams around us are on similar win some, lose some, patterns.

People thought Tampa was pulling away and they are back to shitting the bed. There is no consistency on the bubble right now.

But we can't wait forever. We got head to head games with Philly that really need to be wins

 

[KovalchukFistPump]

We will never know but I suspect Fitzs knows this is a lost season; regression and losses to Dougie, Timo (my guess), Mercer, VV, Siegs, Marino, Mike M are HUGE minutes coupled with two children on defense (who are doing pretty well all things considered). That's too much to overcome. I hope he can be a seller and they come back next year with a more mature team.

I doubt they sell as that would piss off Jack and company. Probably will hang on and maybe get a depth defenseman for a 4th. Or maybe they can acquire guys like Tyler Myers or Zadorov for cheap if Vancouver decides they want to make more trades and shed cap. But I don't see us selling off parts like Toffoli. The goal is probably just to compete for the playoffs until Game 80+ and then see what happens. Worst things worst, get LHughes and Nemec some experience so they can dominate next year.