Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023-24 season part II

[JrFischer54]

Toffoli definitely adds a different element to this team. Part of the reason people seem to not like him is because of how different he looks out there from most of the players we’ve had the last few years.

We’ll get another look at him with Jack to finish the season. If he scores 40, he will be back.

If he scores 40 and isn’t back that’s a fireable offense

 

[BurntToast]

What do you think is even easier to find a 30-40 goal scorer who hinted he’s open to resigning here or a “complimentary” player to help outside of scoring points (which is the end goal in hockey) to score points.

Insn’t Timo supposed to be a 30-40 goal scorer?! Healthy, Jack was close to 50.

The problem is Toffoli’s contract. He ain’t playing for free. He probably ain’t playing for anything less than 7. The Devils set the market price by paying a supposed 30-40 goal scorer close to 9m. What do you do with Mercer and Holtz? The Devils may want to find some PK help or a LD. And there is also a Goalie issue that needs to be resolved.

 

[JrFischer54]

The idea that toffoli is just a finisher who is dead weight elsewhere is kinda wild to me

Yet those people thinking that claim we will get a haul for him and is going to then land a massive long term contract this summer north of 7 million.

 

[Oneiro]

I’d rather trade Toffoli.

I just don’t see it going well on an extension. No judgment on his season and it was going well. I loved the deal when we were a healthy team that seemed like it could make noise. But there’s still too much medicine to take for this group and now you have to fill McLeod’a spot and start extending the elementary school.

I also just think we need to stick to being a faster team or decide that we’re going to play a tighter game.

 

[JrFischer54]

Insn’t Timo supposed to be a 30-40 goal scorer?! Healthy, Jack was close to 50, but the Devils

The problem is Toffoli’s contract. He ain’t playing for free. He probably ain’t playing for anything less than 7. The Devils set the market price by paying a supposed 30-40 goal scorer close to 9m. What do you do with Mercer and Holtz? The Devils may want to find some PK help or a LD. And there is also a Goalie issue that needs to be resolved.

Yes and how is Timo doing? How many games has jack missed so far this year? Have either been healthy at all this year? Now let’s take away tofolli scoring and add some grinders. How was Timo Nico bratt in the playoffs last year?

How about we see what he wants before we just assume every player signs for this and that. I vaguely remember something he said about being open to signing here when traded here. We are suppose to be a contender maybe he likes it here and takes a team friendly deal? I dunno

 

[Devs3cups]

The idea that toffoli is just a finisher who is dead weight elsewhere is kinda wild to me

I mean, I like him. But I don’t see much else that really stands out in his game? I mean don’t get me wrong he’s a good passer and he seems like a good leader, but he’s not very good defensively from what I see, he’s super slow as well. I wouldn’t say he’s a one trick pony, but he’s pretty much “just” a goal scorer in my eyes. It’s fine though, not every player can be good everywhere.

 

[Lou Bloom]

I’ll remember that when we are down a goal late in the third period but don’t worry we have some guys to win a board battle.

Listen of course you need players to do everything but you can get rid of tofolli and get 3 guys to win board battles doesn’t mean we are going to win anymore games if we can’t score goals.

How bout this crazy idea we try and do BOTH keep a 30 goal scorer and find a third liner to win those board battles

Yeah, because last year's Devils team definitely missed those 30 Toffoli goals. Last year's Golden Knights must of been a pretty bad team not having one 30 goal scorer on their team.

Why do you think players like Lehkonen, Barbashev and Coleman were valuable additions to cup winning teams?

 

[BurntToast]

Toffoli is arguably a top 5 UFA this offseason. Stamkos, Guentzel, maybe March and then Toffoli. He isn’t making less than 7 million.

 

[Bone Density]

Looks like Toffoli has been a bit underpaid most of his career (I'd love to be underpaid as well!) - my worry with an extension is term. I don't think I'd mind overpaying for 2 seasons, but will Tyler accept that or go after the most money and security. His footspeed is a bit concerning as well.

 

[Lou Bloom]

The idea that toffoli is just a finisher who is dead weight elsewhere is kinda wild to me

He's not deadweight, he just doesn't bring much of an impact outside of scoring. If the Devils didn't have as many playmakers and scoring talent as they do than I'd be fine with bringing him back but you need to add players that can bring value off the puck.

Why do you think Vegas won the cup without a single PPG+ player or 30 goal scorer last season? Why do you think players like Lehkonen and Coleman were key adds on Stanley cup winning teams? You can't just build a lineup full of guys who are at their best when they have the puck on their stick.

 

[BurntToast]

Looks like Toffoli has been a bit underpaid most of his career (I'd love to be underpaid as well!) - my worry with an extension is term. I don't think I'd mind overpaying for 2 seasons, but will Tyler accept that or go after the most money and security. His footspeed is a bit concerning as well.

This is an opportunity the Devils may only get once. The Devils have an amazing rental and “should” be good next year. To have sustained success you do need to have assets to trade or prospects to fill out the roster, when players get priced out.

 

[JrFischer54]

Yeah, because last year's Devils team definitely missed those 30 Toffoli goals. Last year's Golden Knights must of been a pretty bad team not having one 30 goal scorer on their team.

Why do you think players like Lehkonen, Barbashev and Coleman were valuable additions to cup winning teams?

They certainly could’ve used them in the playoffs that’s for sure. Yeah they were great adds you seem to think it has to be one or the other. There are grinders out there we can get while still having complimentary goal scoring.

It’s great to want to copy a team and follow their blue prints it doesn’t always work that way. You have to build a team the best you can. Dont try and be the next Vegas.

 

[Triumph]

Graves/Severson...meh whatever. The problem is we didn't draft a single serviceable Dman from Severson in 2012 to Luke Hughes 2021.

This isn't a problem. The Devils got Siegenthaler and Marino for a 1st, 3rd, and 3rd. They're drafted in 2015 and 2016 respectively. It'd be nice to have one of those D, sure, but Graves was drafted in 2013 - it'd be time to sign that player UFA regardless.

 

[My3Sons]

If he scores 40 and isn’t back that’s a fireable offense

What if his ask is 8 years at $9 mil per? It’s easy to make bold statements in a vacuum.

 

[Lou Bloom]

They certainly could’ve used them in the playoffs that’s for sure. Yeah they were great adds you seem to think it has to be one or the other. There are grinders out there we can get while still having complimentary goal scoring.

I'm not talking about adding 4th line grinders, I'm talking about adding good two way hockey players that can play with and compliment your top scorers and those guys aren't cheap. If you don't think that Jack, Hischier, Bratt, Meier, Holtz, Mercer, Dougie, Luke and Nemec (not even mentioning Palat and Haula) is enough in terms of scoring talent than I don't know what to tell you.

 

[My3Sons]

I'm not talking about adding 4th line grinders, I'm talking about adding good two way hockey players that can play with and compliment your top scorers and those guys aren't cheap. If you don't think that Jack, Hischier, Bratt, Meier, Holtz, Mercer, Dougie, Luke and Nemec (not even mentioning Palat and Haula) is enough in terms of scoring talent than I don't know what to tell you.

The cap being what it is, you pay a premium for scoring over defense. You have to save a few bucks somewhere

 

[Camille the Eel]

You know we can’t prevent these guys from aging right. So we aren’t always going to be the youngest team in the league. Nor should we always strive to be you need some vets in the lineup. You also need goal scorers. I didn’t realize tofolli made this team less athletic fast deep all by himself! Yet he still will put up 30+ while everyone else is having a down year?

So if he’s that “bad” then we sure we going to get a haul of picks back for him?

When he scores - and he got on a streak there again for a couple games - he has value. Yet I don’t think we will get much for him as a rental. When he goes dry is when his drawbacks become more obvious. He is so slow (and I didn’t think being slow could be elevated to an actual quality beyond being relative until I watched him) that he will turn a potential break away into a 1 on 2 about 95% of the time, is the wrong winger for Jack, nor can he get in on the forecheck because he can’t catch up with the puck.

Defensively too he doesn’t keep up.

He has great hands and vision and has been very good for us on the power play once other guys make the entries and give him time to set up low left. I have loved his touch passes into the slot.

You are right that his scoring, when he scores, will be missed. But on balance I think he isn’t the right fit for a top line with Hughes and he is as much of an anchor on our skating game as he is an asset as a sniper. I hope we find another alternative that can bring some of what he does without the draw backs.

 

[JrFischer54]

What if his ask is 8 years at $9 mil per? It’s easy to make bold statements in a vacuum.

He can ask doesn’t mean he’s going to get it.
I don’t know any other contender that can afford that.

I can do that too
But if the ask isn’t 8 and 9 but something team friendly.

 

[tailfins]

The notion that Toffoli signs short term (2-3 years) AND low cost (under $5 million) is suspect - particularly if you believe Toffoli adds more than just finishing.

Do you sign Toffoli or pick up Guentzel, DeBrusk, Marchessault, Zucker, Patches or a different scorer in UFA?

And if you’re not sure you’re keeping him, do you just trade him as a rental to pick up some assets? He basically won the Vegas game for the Devils, but would the team be better off if Holtz was force fed this minutes this year?

 

[NjDevsRR]

The notion that Toffoli signs short term (2-3 years) AND low cost (under $5 million) is suspect - particularly if you believe Toffoli adds more than just finishing.

Do you sign Toffoli or pick up Guentzel, DeBrusk, Marchessault, Zucker, Patches or a different scorer in UFA?

And if you’re not sure you’re keeping him, do you just trade him as a rental to pick up some assets? He basically won the Vegas game for the Devils, but would the team be better off if Holtz was force fed this minutes this year?

You pick up Guentzel for the Genucel collab

 

[JrFischer54]

I'm not talking about adding 4th line grinders, I'm talking about adding good two way hockey players that can play with and compliment your top scorers and those guys aren't cheap. If you don't think that Jack, Hischier, Bratt, Meier, Holtz, Mercer, Dougie, Luke and Nemec (not even mentioning Palat and Haula) is enough in terms of scoring talent than I don't know what to tell you.

That’s good you don’t want grinders. Should make it even harder to find these guys. I mean they would have to want to sign here if they are going ufa route. Or trade route? Finding a team looking to sell us one without costing an arm and a leg if we have to get into a bidding war. So again it’s great you want all these intangibles who wouldn’t. Being realistic though it’s not that simple

When he scores - and he got on a streak there again for a couple games - he has value. Yet I don’t think we will get much for him as a rental. When he goes dry is when his drawbacks become more obvious. He is so slow (and I didn’t think being slow could be elevated to an actual quality beyond being relative until I watched him) that he will turn a potential break away into a 1 on 2 about 95% of the time, is the wrong winger for Jack, nor can he get in on the forecheck because he can’t catch up with the puck.

Defensively too he doesn’t keep up.

He has great hands and vision and has been very good for us on the power play once other guys make the entries and give him time to set up low left. I have loved his touch passes into the slot.

You are right that his scoring, when he scores, will be missed. But on balance I think he isn’t the right fit for a top line with Hughes and he is as much of an anchor on our skating game as he is an asset as a sniper. I hope we find another alternative that can bring some of what he does without the draw backs.

You guys need to watch shallow Hal lol.

 

[Guttersniped]

Graves has sucked this year massively. He would not have made a difference here. He also would have cost entirely way too much to keep him. The issue is Siegs fell of a cliff, Marino has fallen off a cliff. Making the losses look worse to anyone not paying attention realizing the massive goals against issue is the gaping hole in net Tom failed to fill and is seemingly not filling right now for some reason.

Calgary should be the team to target for a goalie with Markstrom. He is healthy and back to stealing games and being one of the top guys in the league in goals saved above expected.

Calgary is clearly looking to sell. We got pieces we could use to grab Markstrom.

We also do need another guy on the left side though so Bahl f***s off lower into the lineup.

Hanifin or Chychrun should be that target.

Marino hasn’t fallen off a cliff, he’s been shakier but the team has been worse and his partner (meaning Bahl) has been decidedly worse.
He plays brutal minutes and he’s been whacked with a rough on-ice SV%.

We can’t afford Hanifin or Chychrun longterm.

 

[Devils Trap]

Marino hasn’t fallen off a cliff, he’s been shakier but the team has been worse and his partner (meaning Bahl) has been decidedly worse.
He plays brutal minutes and he’s been whacked with a rough on-ice SV%.

We can’t afford Hanifin or Chychrun longterm.

Cant afford those 2 at all unless the cap went up significantly again. I want a solid defensive Dman who is a shot blocker and physical

Like what would Alec Martinez cost as a UFA, I have no idea but that mold of player

 

[Guttersniped]

Insn’t Timo supposed to be a 30-40 goal scorer?! Healthy, Jack was close to 50.

The problem is Toffoli’s contract. He ain’t playing for free. He probably ain’t playing for anything less than 7. The Devils set the market price by paying a supposed 30-40 goal scorer close to 9m. What do you do with Mercer and Holtz? The Devils may want to find some PK help or a LD. And there is also a Goalie issue that needs to be resolved.

I don’t know what Toffoli will ask for but the non-elite winger market tends to be softer.

I don’t see how a 32 year old Toffoli gets more than 6m and it should be less.

He scored a career high 34 last season, I’m not calling him a 30-40 goal scorer for that.

We gave 8.8m to a 26 year old power forward who has actually scored 40 goals before.

PlusI can see Toffoli cutting us a break as a UFA and all the other UFA wingers aren’t tempting to me.

And I say this as someone who wasn’t all that enthusiastic about the Toffoli trade from day 1, because contracts with older wingers are yucky, and we have one of those already.

Cheap PK help is always available. 3C aren’t cheap though or easy to get *sigh*.

 

[Devils Trap]

I don’t know what Toffoli will ask for but the non-elite winger market tends to be softer.

I don’t see how a 32 year old Toffoli gets more than 6m and it should be less.

He scored a career high 34 last season, I’m not calling him a 30-40 goal scorer for that.

We gave 8.8m to a 26 year old power forward who has actually scored 40 goals before.

PlusI can see Toffoli cutting us a break as a UFA and all the other UFA wingers aren’t tempting to me.

And I say this as someone who wasn’t all that enthusiastic about the Toffoli trade from day 1, because contracts with older wingers are yucky, and we have one of those already.

Cheap PK help is always available. 3C aren’t cheap though or easy to get *sigh*.

Trade Toffoli for Assets and sign Tatar in the offseason ... Gigabrain