Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023-24 season part II

[JrFischer54]

I don't get the Toffoli hate. Dude leads the team in goals and would have several more if Jack was still around.

The same people bashing the people wanting to trade for a goalie want to trade him for picks and prospects

 

[Billdo]

Graves/Severson...meh whatever. The problem is we didn't draft a single serviceable Dman from Severson in 2012 to Luke Hughes 2021.

Steve Santini, Josh Jacobs, Ryan Rehill, Colton White, Yegor Rykov, Jeremy Davies, Jocktan Chainey, Yegor Zaitsev, Xavier Bernard. All literally nothing and either wallowing in minor leagues or totally done with hockey.

Nikita Okhotiuk included for Meier.
Michael Vukojevic in Utica.
Daniil Misyul in Utica.
Case McCarthy taking his 17th year at BU.
Ethan Edwards still at Michigan.
Shakir Mukhamadullin included for Meier, looks very good in the A so far recently called up.
Topias Villen in Utica.
Viktor Hurtig at Michigan State.
Seamus Casey at Michigan looks promising.
Daniil Orlov playing decent in the KHL from what I understand.
Charlie Leddy, meh, on a very good BC team.
Artem Barabosha, not able to find much on his play in the KHL.

So yeah, whole lot of not much during that almost decade. Certainly used some pieces to acquire Meier although Mukhamadullin would be the center piece.

We really missed on the vast majority of that cow pile.

 

[Devs3cups]

I don't get the Toffoli hate. Dude leads the team in goals and would have several more if Jack was still around.

Don’t see many people hating on Toffoli. It’s just the issue of keeping him long-term or not. Is he a fit? He’s a good player. I’m just not sure what to do with him. I’m leaning towards moving him, especially after the Lindholm return. We could probably get a good D-man or maybe he’s part of a deal for a goalie?

 

[Billdo]

Welp, we're 5 points out of the divisions 3 teams.


3 games in hand on Philly would are somehow still treading water. Two games in hand on the Isles who are a point ahead. Pitt a point ahead but they've got a game in hand.

They really need to come out flying next week and get some points.

 

[JimEIV]

Its a good result for D from 2020. Not a miracle, but still he is a good prospect. Anyway Late Lou years and all of Shero years were awful for D drafting.

Prospect are great for fill in or rebuilding...but not if you want to contend now. This is Shero's fatal flaw, neglecting the D for 5 years during our quasi-rebuilding phase is coming home to roost.

Now our promising young D is 3 to 5 years behind our promising forwards and they traditionally take longer to develop. That's the issue....we don't even have middling players to bridge the gap and we have to go out and get the Smith's of the world just to fill out a semi respectable PK.

 

[njdevil26]

Don’t see many people hating on Toffoli. It’s just the issue of keeping him long-term or not. Is he a fit? He’s a good player. I’m just not sure what to do with him. I’m leaning towards moving him, especially after the Lindholm return. We could probably get a good D-man or maybe he’s part of a deal for a goalie?

25-40 goal range (with a healthy Hughes). If they extend him 2-3 years at 4.5-5.5 per, that's a win. Where are we replacing those goals at that price?

 

[Billdo]

Don’t see many people hating on Toffoli. It’s just the issue of keeping him long-term or not. Is he a fit? He’s a good player. I’m just not sure what to do with him. I’m leaning towards moving him, especially after the Lindholm return. We could probably get a good D-man or maybe he’s part of a deal for a goalie?

I wonder if Boston is sold on Swayman and would entertain the idea of moving Ullmark for Toffoli to give them some secondary scoring. Similar salaries, Ullmark had a modified no trade clause.

 

[Guadana]

Prospect are great for fill in or rebuilding...but not if you want to contend now. This is Shero's fatal flaw, neglecting the D for 5 years during our quadi-rebuilding phase is coming home to roost.

Now our promising young D is 3 to 5 years behind our promising forwards and they traditionally take longer to develop. That's the issue....we don't even have middling players to bridge the gape and we have to go out and get the Smith's of the world just to fill out a semi respectable PK.

I believe Luke and Nemec will take it faster. They are wau more talented than average defensemen, we have examples with Heiskanen and others. And yeah, Im not ready to trade Hamilton. Next year youngs will be better, and I hope half of our defense will not be injures in the same time.

I understand that prospects will not help with here and now, but Fitz could find better prospects in the past, overall he did great job on the market, in the trades and on the draft to rebuild all what Shero did in his tenure here with defense.

 

[Lou Bloom]

25-40 goal range (with a healthy Hughes). If they extend him 2-3 years at 4.5-5.5 per, that's a win. Where are we replacing those goals at that price?

This team has Jack, Hischier, Bratt, Meier, Holtz, Mercer, Dougie, Luke and Nemec on it. You need to diversify your lineup and add guys that can play complimentary hockey and effect the outside of scoring points.

 

[Devs3cups]

25-40 goal range (with a healthy Hughes). If they extend him 2-3 years at 4.5-5.5 per, that's a win. Where are we replacing those goals at that price?

I don’t think you need to replace those goals if you bring in other depth elements on the roster.

 

[BurntToast]

25-40 goal range (with a healthy Hughes). If they extend him 2-3 years at 4.5-5.5 per, that's a win. Where are we replacing those goals at that price?

What 40 goal guy is signing for 4.5?! On a shorty no less.

Edit: Here is another reason why Palat’s deal sucks. How can you convince a 30-40 goal scorer to make less that a guy who makes 6 mill and only shows up in the playoffs.

 

[JrFischer54]

This team has Jack, Hischier, Bratt, Meier, Holtz, Mercer, Dougie, Luke and Nemec on it. You need to diversify your lineup and add guys that can play complimentary hockey and effect the outside of scoring points.

Whenever I think I hear it all on this board I’m always surprised Yes let’s move off a 30-40 scoring winger for a player to play complimentary hockey.

What do you think is even easier to find a 30-40 goal scorer who hinted he’s open to resigning here or a “complimentary” player to help outside of scoring points (which is the end goal in hockey) to score points.

 

[JrFischer54]

I don’t think you need to replace those goals if you bring in other depth elements on the roster.

But you don’t need to replace them if you just keep him problem solved

 

[Camille the Eel]

I'd rather go after Chandler Stephenson with Toffoli's money. I doubt he leaves VGK tho

Move Toffoli for picks at the deadline. The lack of skating doesn’t fit and we need to reposition ourselves a bit. Fitz has his work cut out this off season. Even without the injuries our roster was significantly less athletic, fast, deep and young this year in a league where all those things are increasingly important. And yes get heavier while getting faster and more athletic. A Chandler Stevenson or two or clones of are just what we need.

 

[Devils Trap]

Move Toffoli for picks at the deadline. The lack of skating doesn’t fit and we need to reposition ourselves a bit. Fitz has his work cut out this off season. Even without the injuries our roster was significantly less athletic, fast, deep and young this year in a league where all those things are increasingly important. And yes get heavier while getting faster and more athletic. A Chandler Stevenson or two or clones of are just what we need.

Agreed. His lack of skating really is what it is for me

 

[Lou Bloom]

Whenever I think I hear it all on this board I’m always surprised Yes let’s move off a 30-40 scoring winger for a player to play complimentary hockey.

What do you think is even easier to find a 30-40 goal scorer who hinted he’s open to resigning here or a “complimentary” player to help outside of scoring points (which is the end goal in hockey) to score points.

Yes, you need guys that contribute in other areas apart from scoring to win hockey games. The Devils minus Toffoli's goals last season had 112 points and made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs. This isn't fantasy sports, you actually need players that can win board battles, compete defensively and affect the game outside of scoring points.

 

[JimEIV]

Steve Santini, Josh Jacobs, Ryan Rehill, Colton White, Yegor Rykov, Jeremy Davies, Jocktan Chainey, Yegor Zaitsev, Xavier Bernard. All literally nothing and either wallowing in minor leagues or totally done with hockey.

Nikita Okhotiuk included for Meier.
Michael Vukojevic in Utica.
Daniil Misyul in Utica.
Case McCarthy taking his 17th year at BU.
Ethan Edwards still at Michigan.
Shakir Mukhamadullin included for Meier, looks very good in the A so far recently called up.
Topias Villen in Utica.
Viktor Hurtig at Michigan State.
Seamus Casey at Michigan looks promising.
Daniil Orlov playing decent in the KHL from what I understand.
Charlie Leddy, meh, on a very good BC team.
Artem Barabosha, not able to find much on his play in the KHL.

So yeah, whole lot of not much during that almost decade. Certainly used some pieces to acquire Meier although Mukhamadullin would be the center piece.

We really missed on the vast majority of that cow pile.

You left out the venerable Ty Smith.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

This team has Jack, Hischier, Bratt, Meier, Holtz, Mercer, Dougie, Luke and Nemec on it. You need to diversify your lineup and add guys that can play complimentary hockey and effect the outside of scoring points.

Toffoli definitely adds a different element to this team. Part of the reason people seem to not like him is because of how different he looks out there from most of the players we’ve had the last few years.

We’ll get another look at him with Jack to finish the season. If he scores 40, he will be back.

 

[JimEIV]

The smooth skating Ty Smith.

 

[JrFischer54]

Move Toffoli for picks at the deadline. The lack of skating doesn’t fit and we need to reposition ourselves a bit. Fitz has his work cut out this off season. Even without the injuries our roster was significantly less athletic, fast, deep and young this year in a league where all those things are increasingly important. And yes get heavier while getting faster and more athletic. A Chandler Stevenson or two or clones of are just what we need.

You know we can’t prevent these guys from aging right. So we aren’t always going to be the youngest team in the league. Nor should we always strive to be you need some vets in the lineup. You also need goal scorers. I didn’t realize tofolli made this team less athletic fast deep all by himself! Yet he still will put up 30+ while everyone else is having a down year?

So if he’s that “bad” then we sure we going to get a haul of picks back for him?

 

[Billdo]

You left out the venerable Ty Smith.

How could I have ever forgotten about such a memorable piece to this puzzle... although he did turn into Marino which at least is a serviceable NHL defenseman and not a cashier at a Tim Hortons like half those guys.

 

[JrFischer54]

Yes, you need guys that contribute in other areas apart from scoring to win hockey games. The Devils minus Toffoli's goals last season had 112 points and made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs. This isn't fantasy sports, you actually need players that can win board battles, compete defensively and affect the game outside of scoring points.

I’ll remember that when we are down a goal late in the third period but don’t worry we have some guys to win a board battle.

Listen of course you need players to do everything but you can get rid of tofolli and get 3 guys to win board battles doesn’t mean we are going to win anymore games if we can’t score goals.

How bout this crazy idea we try and do BOTH keep a 30 goal scorer and find a third liner to win those board battles

 

[njdevils1982]

The smooth skating Ty Smith.

smooth toes across the blueline in the ozone

 

[Lou Bloom]

Toffoli definitely adds a different element to this team. Part of the reason people seem to not like him is because of how different he looks out there from most of the players we’ve had the last few years.

We’ll get another look at him with Jack to finish the season. If he scores 40, he will be back.

I don't disagree that he adds a different element. I just think that element is a luxury on a team that has no shortage of scoring talent and is lacking in terms of board play, forechecking, physicality and compete.

Look at how successful Vegas has been despite not being loaded with offensive talent, they win games though by playing great 200ft hockey, Colorado and Tampa Won the Stanley Cups after adding players like Lehkonen and Coleman to their lineup to go along with players already on the team like Nichushkin, Landeskog, Gourde, Palat, Killorn, Cirelli etc...

The Devils need some diversity of skillset in their top 9 apart from putting the puck in the net.

 

[MasterofGrond]

The idea that toffoli is just a finisher who is dead weight elsewhere is kinda wild to me