Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2022-23 season thread part III

[SteveCangialosi123]

That model is goofy. Ryan Graves is not more valuable than Marino.

 

[Forge]

Beautiful. Now how long can a conditioning stint be? Rest of the season?

Long term injury conditioning loan is I think 3 games, but can be extended in some instances.

 

[MadDevil]

I watched the Bruins-Vegas game last night (and with Krejci out, Zacha lined up at center), and I gotta say he did look pretty good. A lot more battle and jam than I'd seen before. Bruins fans seem happy with him too.

We're the top two teams in the conference currently so I think it's the rare trade where both teams are happy with it. Haula is getting dumped on by some for not scoring, and that's at least partially fair. But we've seen players have awful stretches of shooting luck before, only to bounce back to more normal rates. I'd be more worried if Haula was playing like garbage but he's not. He may not be the ideal linemate for Jack but I don't think he's a boat anchor either.

 

[bossram]

there’s no universe where zacha deserves nearly $7M a year. unless there’s a universe where the salary cap for each team was $800 billion dollars.

Never said there was. I certainly wouldn't pay Zacha that much and don't want him back on the Devils.

I just made a rather innocuous comment that yes, Zacha is playing well for the Bruins. Good for him.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

there’s no universe where zacha deserves nearly $7M a year. unless there’s a universe where the salary cap for each team was $800 billion dollars.

The values there tend to be higher than realistic. There’s no world where a lot of guys get close to those valuations. It’s just what they’re projected to actually be worth in this single season and not taking term into account.

 

[bossram]

We're the top two teams in the conference currently so I think it's the rare trade where both teams are happy with it. Haula is getting dumped on by some for not scoring, and that's at least partially fair. But we've seen players have awful stretches of shooting luck before, only to bounce back to more normal rates. I'd be more worried if Haula was playing like garbage but he's not. He may not be the ideal linemate for Jack but I don't think he's a boat anchor either.

Oh 100%. I think it worked for both teams.

Zacha's time in NJ was done. I've been happy Haula. They needed more guys to do the defensive dirty work, control the boards, and forecheck. Haula has done that.

 

[MasterofGrond]

That model is goofy. Ryan Graves is not more valuable than Marino.

These types of models can end up a little wonky when pairings don’t rotate much. Marino has played like 80% of his ES minutes with Graves, maybe more, and I think the system may be assigning responsibility inaccurately.

Nonetheless I do think Marino has been more good than great lately.

 

[Guttersniped]

That model is goofy. Ryan Graves is not more valuable than Marino.

The model cares about offense too and Graves is getting a lot more for it that Marino. Marino’s edge in defense doesn’t make up for it.

 

[JrFischer54]

Man talk about pressure when he starts his first game. Noway they make it at home do they?

 

[bossram]

Bruins fans can be happy with him.

The “market value” of these cards in no way predicts what a player will get paid.

The market value isn't purporting to be a prediction either. Dom's model just assigns a dollar value per GSVA, and the "market value" is just that times their GSVA.

I didn't really make a comment on Zacha's value either. I made a rather innocuous comment about his play with the Bruins. I wouldn't bring him back to NJ and am happy with the deal.

 

[MasterofGrond]

It’s time to bring back Zacha, the stats do NOT lie

 

[Guttersniped]

Long term injury conditioning loan is I think 3 games, but can be extended in some instances.

I believe Bernier is the only player who is on LTIR (that’s how Cap Friendly has it) so Blackwood could have a regular conditioning stint which is up to 14 days.

 

[Guttersniped]

Can’t wait for Fitz to pry this gem out of Montreal.

 

[Devils731]

Can’t wait for Fitz to pry this gem out of Montreal.

View attachment 620415

How many first round picks are the Devils allowed to include in 1 trade? There is going to need to be 5 or 6 being sent, I imagine.

 

[My3Sons]

What have I been saying about how much money he should be paid? I’ve been saying he’s a $1 million dollar goalie and can be replaced by basically any goalie making a million bucks a year. And that if it came down to Blackwood next year at $3-$4 million vs another bad goalie making just $1 million, give me the cheaper one, as he can’t be any worse and it’s a $2-$3 million savings.

Glad they agree with me.

Wait so you are willing to keep Blackwood at the cheaper $3 mil per rate? Presumably on a long term deal?

 

[billingtons ghost]

The Athletic Devils player Market Values:
Is based on what they’ve done the past 3 seasons, so far this season, and the projection for the remainder of this season. Is for this season only and doesn’t take long-term into account.

Hughes - 15M
Hamilton - 14.9
Bratt - 14.2
Hischier - 13.6
Siegenthaler - 11.1
Tatar - 8.0
Palat - 7.1
Zetterlund - 7.0
Haula - 6.2
Mercer - 6.1
Severson - 5.9
Graves - 5.1
Bastian - 4.6
Vanacek - 3.9
Wood - 3.4
Marino - 3.3
Sharangovich - 3.0
Smith - 2.6
McLeod - 2.0
Blackwood - 0.1

Would’ve love to see Schmid and I’m guessing he’d have a nice value.

Rotfl at this sheer idiocy.

A ten year old mega fan with a pencil and notebook.

Hey guys, just bc someone comes up with a formula to crunch numbers and writes a little code doesn't immediately give it credence. The fact that The Athletic lends this thing any sort of hint of veracity says more about their stupid takes than it does about our team.

 

[Clam Jensen]

Can’t wait for Fitz to pry this gem out of Montreal.

View attachment 620415

You had me at “6’3’’ 218”.

 

[Camille the Eel]

The market value isn't purporting to be a prediction either. Dom's model just assigns a dollar value per GSVA, and the "market value" is just that times their GSVA.

I didn't really make a comment on Zacha's value either. I made a rather innocuous comment about his play with the Bruins. I wouldn't bring him back to NJ and am happy with the deal.

I was happy for him watching last night's game too and it occurred to me that they have no expectations there for him to score or be elite. They don't need him to do that but just to fit in with the elite talent they have and to facilitate things. He's played a good deal with Pasternak and a good deal with Hall, both of whom are having great seasons. He seems to be seeing the ice well and his skating speed and fluency are quite evident in their system. He's moving the puck very very crisply, some great passes last night on the tape to spring Hall. It's the perfect situation for him. And that club is looking great.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Can’t wait for Fitz to pry this gem out of Montreal.

View attachment 620415

This is just his tangible value. His intangibles make him worth at least 6 million dollars per year. You can’t win in the playoffs without a guy that skates in a straight line and can’t pass.

 

[billingtons ghost]

lmao Blackwood

Marino that low will bother a lot of people, but IMO he's had more rough games than people care to admit. Everyone remembers the cool flashy defensive plays, and I'm not saying he's bad or anything, but overall I think the people acting like he's Ken Daneyko out there are a little off base.

uh? Ken Daneyko? Big head? Fights? I don't get it. I mean of all the Devils defensemen to choose...

Marino's backchecking stickwork alone is something we haven't seen in 10 years. His passing has been as good as Severson's ever has and we thought he was a blackhole.

lol at folks trying to defend a wonky 'model'.

 

[billingtons ghost]

I was happy for him watching last night's game too and it occurred to me that they have no expectations there for him to score or be elite. They don't need him to do that but just to fit in with the elite talent they have and to facilitate things. He's played a good deal with Pasternak and a good deal with Hall, both of whom are having great seasons. He seems to be seeing the ice well and his skating speed and fluency are quite evident in their system. He's moving the puck very very crisply, some great passes last night on the tape to spring Hall. It's the perfect situation for him. And that club is looking great.

We'll get a real good look at them in two weeks.

 

[Guttersniped]

uh? Ken Daneyko? Big head? Fights? I don't get it. I mean of all the Devils defensemen to choose...

Marino's backchecking stickwork alone is something we haven't seen in 10 years. His passing has been as good as Severson's ever has and we thought he was a blackhole.

lol at folks trying to defend a wonky 'model'.

You’re looking at the “market value” and not the whole card and yes, it’s not great at measuring defensive stick work. The rating is affected by his two previous seasons too.

Marino is definitely overrated on this board for being the anti-Severson. I overrate him for that but he’s also what we need and he’s only played 27 games here.

People are getting touchy but Marino plays brutal minutes and his numbers suffer for it. The rating change over the year too.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Rotfl at this sheer idiocy.

A ten year old mega fan with a pencil and notebook.

Hey guys, just bc someone comes up with a formula to crunch numbers and writes a little code doesn't immediately give it credence. The fact that The Athletic lends this thing any sort of hint of veracity says more about their stupid takes than it does about our team.

it says more about you that it bothers you this much, tbh

 

[Bleedred]

Rotfl at this sheer idiocy.

A ten year old mega fan with a pencil and notebook.

Hey guys, just bc someone comes up with a formula to crunch numbers and writes a little code doesn't immediately give it credence. The fact that The Athletic lends this thing any sort of hint of veracity says more about their stupid takes than it does about our team.

Honestly, I think this is just in short sample size based on what they’ve provided this year, though even then a lot of them aren’t accurate.

I don’t think anyone would ever seriously suggest paying Haula close to $7 million or Tatar over $8 or Siegenthaler over $11 million.

 

[Guttersniped]

I’m posting these, if it’s too much I guess they can be deleted.