Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part II

[Nocashstyle]

I think people need to come to terms that Fitz isn't interested in anymore building years.

He wants this team competitive during these sweet heart deals Nico and Jack signed

At this point, I think it’s the right move too

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Nemec isn't playing ahead of him

Nemec isn't getting sent to AHL, and in 2 years top (this upcoming season being 1), he will far surpass him.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

Why would the Devils be entertaining trading John Marino?

Probably this is something that happens if the GM is losing sight of the future and has switched to win now mode. Marino would be a casualty of the RHD logjam.

 

[Hisch13r]

Most likely true but with the revolving door of the top 6 wings the past few years, he'll end up back there if he starts on L3 especially if they move Marino for a wing

Even Marino’s swapped for a top 6 wing I don’t see how Mercer’s pushed to 3RW. Let’s say Pesce’s at 6, Mercer’s at like 4, and just use Marino’s 4.4 as the hit of the guy he’s dealt for. That only leaves 6 mil to fill out the rest of the roster. Money is a lot tighter than people think it is.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Can you explain to me how signing Pesce has anything to do with Palat?

If Palat has another dud of a season next year, they'll do what every single competing team in the NHL has successfully been able to do for the past few decades: attach a prospect/pick to him and make him go bye bye.

Because Palat and Pesce are being paid for prior seasons and most likely not going to be as effective as they once were just of the nature of being UFA's. Use that space for RFA's or guys in disgruntled spots for trade. And lol, burning more assets to get rid of Palat is definitely a sound strategy. You brought up NYR, they've been doing that for the past 15 years and haven't won shit. Not exactly the team I want to copy

 

[beekay414]

As with the Markstrom/Bahl trade, we have to let the offseason play out. No sense debating roster construction right now.

 

[Hisch13r]

Nemec isn't playing ahead of him

Ok let’s say Nemec is 3RD next year. What about the other 5 years of a Pesce deal??

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Luke-Pesce would probably be pretty nasty though. Generic brand Quinn-Tanev

I’ll worry about the cap when I see what the deal actually looks like and what else Fitz does. The guy has earned some trust.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Even Marino’s swapped for a top 6 wing I don’t see how Mercer’s pushed to 3RW. Let’s say Pesce’s at 6, Mercer’s at like 4, and just use Marino’s 4.4 as the hit of the guy he’s dealt for. That only leaves 1.6 mil to fill out the rest of the roster. Money is a lot tighter than people think it is.

I meant more so the guy they bring back will be auto top 6 unless Fitz completely bundles that trade and then maybe they add a UFA guy to be with Timo/Nico or Jack/Bratt. Not the end of the world if Mercer doesn't start there, he'll end there most likely.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

As with the Markstrom/Bahl trade, we have to let the offseason play out. No sense debating roster construction right now.

Might as well just lock all the threads and only have ones open for stuff that happened if we should not talk about stuff like this

 

[ndkjr70]

Because Palat and Pesce are being paid for prior seasons and most likely not going to be as effective as they once were just of the nature of being UFA's. And lol, burning more assets to get rid of Palat is definitely a sound strategy. You brought up NYR, they've been doing that for the past 15 years and haven't won shit. Not exactly the team I want to copy

Palat is already on the team. He was already a poor decision. Him being a poor decision is not remotely indicative of the success or failure of a Pesce signing.

Does that Bratt extension look less stellar because "well yeah Bratt at 7.875 is amazing but Bratt+Palat at $14m is an overpay"? The Devils have cap room, they'll continue to have cap room because they have their core players locked up for a remarkable discount.

And no, it's not ideal to attach assets to rid yourself of contracts, but sometimes it's the price of doing business. If it becomes unavoidable, it's not the end of the world. (The Rangers are far from the only team who does that, so your reductive nonsense about 'I don't want to copy them' is idiotic anyway. But the Rangers have also won the 2nd most playoff games in the past decade. They haven't won the big one yet, and thank god for that, but the Rangers won more playoff series in the past 3 months than the Devils have in a decade.)

If I'm following you here, you'd like to add a defenseman, but not an expensive one, but not a shitty one, but you don't want to give up assets to do it, and you don't want to sign a UFA. Sounds great, let's do that, you f***in nailed it bro.

 

[beekay414]

Might as well just lock all the threads and only have ones open for stuff that happened if we should not talk about stuff like this

Yes, because that's what is implied by saying that. Everyone's worried about X, Y or Z next year in June when we have the entire offseason to go. C'mon. Use your head.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Yes, because that's what is implied by saying that. Everyone's worried about X, Y or Z next year in June when we have the entire offseason to go. C'mon. Use your head.

That is exactly what is implied by that. You're saying to not discuss anything before it's happened. "Use your head"

 

[beekay414]

That is exactly what is implied by that. You're saying to not discuss anything before it's happened. "Use your head"

No, you can talk about "we need this" or "we need that." Not saying that shit like "I don't see the point in acquiring X player." as we don't have the entire picture yet. We don't know what the vision is yet. Let the offseason play out. It's June 24th ffs.

 

[megajake]

I literally did not say he was a third pairing defenseman. I said he was a 3D, as in third best defenseman on a team, conventional 2nd pair player.

3D is the standard parlance for this in most hockey circles. A third pairing player would be a 5D or 6D.

My bad, mis-read what you wrote there.

Why would the Devils be entertaining trading John Marino?

He was ATROCIOUS last year

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Palat is already on the team. He was already a poor decision. Him being a poor decision is not remotely indicative of the success or failure of a Pesce signing.

Does that Bratt extension look less stellar because "well yeah Bratt at 7.875 is amazing but Bratt+Palat at $14m is an overpay"? The Devils have cap room, they'll continue to have cap room because they have their core players locked up for a remarkable discount.

And no, it's not ideal to attach assets to rid yourself of contracts, but sometimes it's the price of doing business. If it becomes unavoidable, it's not the end of the world. (The Rangers are far from the only team who does that, so your reductive nonsense about 'I don't want to copy them' is idiotic anyway. But the Rangers have also won the 2nd most playoff games in the past decade. They haven't won the big one yet, and thank god for that, but the Rangers won more playoff series in the past 3 months than the Devils have in a decade.)

If I'm following you here, you'd like to add a defenseman, but not an expensive one, but not a shitty one, but you don't want to give up assets to do it, and you don't want to sign a UFA. Sounds great, let's do that, you f***in nailed it bro.

I've been said I'd be ok with Zadorov depending on price point and a guy like Tanev, but keep raging for no reason lol. And what? How do you even compare a homegrown guy like Bratt who was RFA's contract to a UFA deal? UFA deals in nature are usually horrendous but you don't have to consistently dip into UFA to stay a contender. Did they not build their 22-23 top 4 mostly through trades? Marino, Siegs, Graves were all trades and they were all great for their value? And good for the Rags, they're still not a sustainable team and haven't won anything. What other team has consistently attached stuff to cap dumps? Leafs? Another team I clearly want the Devils to follow. If you're already talking about attaching picks to guys in bad contracts then it was clearly poor asset management in the first place.

 

[ndkjr70]

Ok let’s say Nemec is 3RD next year. What about the other 5 years of a Pesce deal??

What about them? Hamilton and Pesce are totally complementary RD. Hamilton eats minutes on the PP, Pesce eats minutes on the PK, I don't think the ice time becomes an issue anywhere in this situation.

In the same way that people look at the gap between 2nd and 3rd line totally incorrectly, they also see the gap between 2nd and 3rd pairing defenseman the wrong way. in 2023, the Devils had 5 defenseman average > ~20:00 (Hamilton 21:46, Marino 21:04, Siegenthaler 20:09, Severson 19:57, Graves 19:57).

 

[Mgd31]

Oh no not Gurgelsons

 

[Better Call Sal]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1805319046415479093

Again, some will say he benefitted from the Canes' system. But food for thought for those, like me, who aren't that familiar with his game on a deeper level.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

The guy has earned some trust.

He earned our trust by taking over a team in a good spot and making smart trades and decisions.

I am worried that the mixed up and down results since along with a sense of him feeling like he needs to have success immediately to keep his job has led him to making rashes short-term decisions. Eg. Palat
Still love a lot of what he’s done but I’m a little concerned with where he’s going now, and the continually declining speed of our team to add size and toughness because that’s apparently how you win. Think that’s a pretty common trap that doesn’t work out.

 

[ndkjr70]

I've been said I'd be ok with Zadorov depending on price point and a guy like Tanev, but keep raging for no reason lol. And what? How do you even compare a homegrown guy like Bratt who was RFA's contract to a UFA deal? UFA deals in nature are usually horrendous but you don't have to consistently dip into UFA to stay a contender. Did they not build their 22-23 top 4 mostly through trades? Marino, Siegs, Graves were all trades and they were all great for their value? And good for the Rags, they're still not a sustainable team and haven't won anything. What other team has consistently attached stuff to cap dumps? Leafs? Another team I clearly want the Devils to follow. If you're already talking about attaching picks to guys in bad contracts then it was clearly poor asset management in the first place.

The point isn't (and hasn't ever been) "let's sign a bunch of guys and then trade them when we can't afford them". The point has always been "avoiding adding a guy who helps your team dramatically because you're worried about paying him in 4 years" is shortsighted and stupid. The Devils cap is in great shape, Pesce is a great fit, worry about moving Palat when it's time to pay Luke if (not WHEN, IF) it becomes an issue.

 

[SKNJD9]

Pesce is only the tip of the iceberg, this team is going to look drastically different by July 2nd

 

[megajake]

Yeah contracts are pretty easy to move if need be. Worry about that later. Cap is going to keep going up as well.

Pesce is only the tip of the iceberg, this team is going to look drastically different by July 2nd

As it should

 

[DerekDevils30]

Pesce is only the tip of the iceberg, this team is going to look drastically different by July 2nd

Yeah. That’s what it feels like.

 

[Hisch13r]

I meant more so the guy they bring back will be auto top 6 unless Fitz completely bundles that trade and then maybe they add a UFA guy to be with Timo/Nico or Jack/Bratt. Not the end of the world if Mercer doesn't start there, he'll end there most likely.

I get what you’re saying. I just don’t see how we’d be adding a guy who’d end up over Mercer unless they’re intentionally like “earn it back”. I was off on my original math and it’d be 6 mil left if we swapped Marino for an equal cap top 6 guy. So 6 mil for a 3LD, bottom 6 guy, and a guy who’d start over Mercer? I think it’d only feasibly work if one of the guys over Mercer was on an ELC