Devils 2021 training camp thread (news, notes and speculation) - Part III [MOD warning in OP]

[TrufleShufle]

Imagine this scenario: you’re a reliable goal scorer for your team, and you’ve chosen not to get vaccinated. You miss a handful of games and your team ends up a point or two short of playoffs. Or you’re the starting goaltender, your backup can’t save a beach ball and your team misses out.

I don’t think teammates would shrug it off like they are currently. The question turns into: “why are we giving a roster spot to this guy if he doesn’t want to help us win?” Those are tough conversations to have within a locker room and responsibility falls on the leadership group. You need a unified voice and a strong captain.

For me it's the same thing with Rask leaving the bubble. All the fans were up in arms, and there might have been a few disappointed players, but the narrative coming out of the locker room was majority support for his decision. So far it seems that way here as well. I for one would love to see the Devils ice the best team they can every night, and I'm sure they all obviously want to win, but if they aren't putting up a stink about it and are supporting him with what he chooses, then I feel weird about being all pissed off as a fan who is no where near the locker room.

Compare it to the locker room chatter with Evander Kane, there was more than enough smoke and some actual fire coming out from the players that you just knew he was making a shitty situation there. I don't care how good he is, I'd want him gone.

Now, I know these are 3 completely different situations, but for me personally, I feel weird shitting on a person on behalf of people who don't feel he should be shit on.

 

[Hisch13r]

May be confusion on my part but thought the 10-game rule applied to junior and not the AHL. My understanding is that Mercer will be in NJ or Utica - not going back to the Q.

Both Mercer and Holtz are slide candidates so it's not just juniors. It's for guys who are 18 or 19 as of September 15th

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Jack, for example, was NOT rushed and it was All in part to his attitude and high level of personal confidence at such a young age

In retrospect Hughes was up a year too early and would have been better served spending a year (or two) in college or the OHL and possibly playing in another World Juniors.

To his credit, he hasn't shown any long-term damage from the decision and appears on track to reach his potential.

 

[Triumph]

In retrospect Hughes was up a year too early and would have been better served spending a year (or two) in college or the OHL and possibly playing in another World Juniors.

To his credit, he hasn't shown any long-term damage from the decision and appears on track to reach his potential.

Jack would've absolutely annihilated college and he should not have been there.

 

[JimEIV]

On Mercer: there is still a lot of preseason left so Id like to see him a build a stronger case for himself...

But if I had to make a decision right now...I'd have him in the opening night lineup. He's versatile and if it goes south we can send him to Utica. But I think he is already one of our 12 best forwards.

I think s much harder decision is going to be Holtz...I say that because my thought is you really want him in one of those top 2 RW spots...maybe you can consider 3RW if the situation is good but still seems like not a lot of room.

 

[TrufleShufle]

In retrospect Hughes was up a year too early and would have been better served spending a year (or two) in college or the OHL and possibly playing in another World Juniors.

To his credit, he hasn't shown any long-term damage from the decision and appears on track to reach his potential.

I know he struggled but I honestly think it's exactly what he needed. I think it was actually beneficial for him to learn as young as possible that just because you could dance through every team you've played against, the NHL is different. He seemed to get a lot of bad habits beat out of him his first year, probably would have been harder if he stuck around just embarrassing kids doing the same things for longer. I think we will find out this year if this theory is right or not.

 

[Camille the Eel]

Jack would've absolutely annihilated college and he should not have been there.

That’s not his point really as I see it. It’s that Jack was up for a development year and that last year should really be evaluated as an extended rookie season - and in that context was most impressive. I have no doubt he’s going to arrive as a dominant star in this league over this and next year.

And be clear I agree with your point. He needed to be up 2 years back.

 

[Hisch13r]

I really don't understand how anyone can say Jack was better off served elsewhere in 19-20 than the NHL after seeing how playing in the NHL helped him become the player he was last season. The only place for Jack was the NHL. He needed to learn how the NHL game is played and you can only do that in the NHL. You have him play anywhere else in 19-20 then his 2021 season would've been a much much much closer to the 19-20 season he had where he struggled a ton rather than his great 2021 season

 

[JimEIV]

That’s not his point really as I see it. It’s that Jack was up for a development year and that last year should really be evaluated as an extended rookie season - and in that context was most impressive. I have no doubt he’s going to arrive as a dominant star in this league over this and next year.

And be clear I agree with your point. He needed to be up 2 years back.

That's quite the statement.

But what does it mean? To me a dominate star(forward) is top 10(ish) in scoring...an elite player is top 30-ish... that's all completely arbitrary but it's some level of measurement...even if you want to disagree with the cutoffs do you think Jack is going to approach the upper echelon of scoring this season? Do you think he'll even be in the top 50?

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

May be confusion on my part but thought the 10-game rule applied to junior and not the AHL. My understanding is that Mercer will be in NJ or Utica - not going back to the Q.

The reason they are discussing 9 games is if they play more than that the year counts as a year off their ELC. If they do not the ELC 3 years starts next year. I am lazy tonight so I will copy and paste from Capfriendly

What is an Entry Level Slide?

If a player who is signed to an entry-level contract and is 18 or 19 years of age (as of September 15 of the signing year), does not play in a minimum of 10 NHL games (including both regular season and playoffs; AHL games do not count), their contract is considered to ‘slide’, or extend, by one year. For example, if a player signed an ELC for three seasons from 2015-16 to 2017-2018, and their contract slides, their contract is now effective from 2016-17 to 2018-19. An exception to this rule is that if the player is 19 on September 15 of the first year of their contract, and turns 20 between September 16 and December 31, their contract does not slide.

Players who sign at 18 years old are eligible to have their contracted extended for 2 seasons. This extension does not apply if the player turns 20 between September 16 and December 31 in his signing year. Signing bonuses do not slide, and are paid to the player regardless of a slide, this causes the annual average of the players contract to change, and therefore the cap hit decreases for this player.

 

[Devils090]

On Mercer: there is still a lot of preseason left so Id like to see him a build a stronger case for himself...

But if I had to make a decision right now...I'd have him in the opening night lineup. He's versatile and if it goes south we can send him to Utica. But I think he is already one of our 12 best forwards.

I think s much harder decision is going to be Holtz...I say that because my thought is you really want him in one of those top 2 RW spots...maybe you can consider 3RW if the situation is good but still seems like not a lot of room.

As much as I’d love to have Holtz up him going to Utica to play top line minutes and PP is only going to help him going forward. Let’s just hope he continues to play he did last night and develops into the sniper we’ve desperately needed.

 

[Hisch13r]

As much as I’d love to have Holtz up him going to Utica to play top line minutes and PP is only going to help him going forward. Let’s just hope he continues to play he did last night and develops into the sniper we’ve desperately needed.

If he continues to play like he did last night then going to Utica won't help him.

 

[JimEIV]

As much as I’d love to have Holtz up him going to Utica to play top line minutes and PP is only going to help him going forward. Let’s just hope he continues to play he did last night and develops into the sniper we’ve desperately needed.

I never assume that someone wants a player to start in the AHL cause they don't think he's good enough, quite the opposite. I assume people say that cause they want what's best for the player.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Wonder why they didn’t post line combinations for the second group after they did for the first. Maybe there’s some cuts that need to be announced.

 

[TrufleShufle]

I never assume that someone wants a player to start in the AHL cause they don't think he's good enough, quite the opposite. I assume people say that cause they want what's best for the player.

Yeah, I just want what's best for Johnsson.

 

[TrufleShufle]

Wonder why they didn’t post line combinations for the second group after they did for the first. Maybe there’s some cuts that need to be announced.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Patrick Maroon?

lol you got me. Forgot about him.

 

[JimEIV]

Yeah, I just want what's best for Johnsson.

Don't bust my balls I had a rough day.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Those are tough conversations to have within a locker room and responsibility falls on the leadership group. You need a unified voice and a strong captain.

I don't want to get involved in this discussion but I have a hard time believing Scott Stevens would just shrug this off. I miss him. Bunch of pansies out there these days who are too scared of hurting people's feelings.

 

[BurntToast]

My thoughts:

Mercer was the stronger candidate to stay up with the big club until camp started. He didn’t play bad yesterday but it was also weird that the organization put him on a line with scrubs. The other weird situation is their handling of Zacha.

on the Flip-side:

Holtz gets a tryout on the top line. The rest might be history. He is also heavily used in any PP situations, for obvious reasons. There may be a greater need for Holtz, than Mercer. With Zacha switching, the opening moves from center to wing.

 

[Hisch13r]

My thoughts:

Mercer was the stronger candidate to stay up with the big club until camp started. He didn’t play bad yesterday but it was also weird that the organization put him on a line with scrubs. The other weird situation is their handling of Zacha.

on the Flip-side:

Holtz gets a tryout on the top line. The rest might be history. He is also heavily used in any PP situations, for obvious reasons. There may be a greater need for Holtz, than Mercer. With Zacha switching, the opening moves from center to wing.

I think the Mercer thing is just because they're getting looks at him in the middle. I really don't see them leaving him off the lineup and it's not like there isn't room for both of them. There's 2 open top 9 spots and as of now they've shown to be the 2 best guys to fill those spots

 

[Captain3rdLine]

My thoughts:

Mercer was the stronger candidate to stay up with the big club until camp started. He didn’t play bad yesterday but it was also weird that the organization put him on a line with scrubs. The other weird situation is their handling of Zacha.

on the Flip-side:

Holtz gets a tryout on the top line. The rest might be history. He is also heavily used in any PP situations, for obvious reasons. There may be a greater need for Holtz, than Mercer. With Zacha switching, the opening moves from center to wing.

I think the difference in where and who they’re playing them with has a lot to do with the role they’re looking at them in and the type of player they are. I think people look a bit too much into who players play with early on in preseason.

I also wouldn’t call Foote and Studenic scrubs. They are both decent young players that played last year and are trying to earn spots on the team as bottom 6 guys this year.

 

[TrufleShufle]

Pretending for a second Mercer and Holtz are at the same point in their respective progression arc, I feel like Holtz would be the only one "hurt" by being rushed. His game seems like a top 6 or nothing game, if you shove him down on the 3rd or 4th because he's not ready for top line minutes, he will have to learn to play a different type of game while ignoring the skills that he should be working on. Mercer is more like a Coleman, put him anywhere and he will get shit done. He seems like the type of guy who can work his way up the line up and change his game along the way. He might not have the ceiling Holtz does, but his style plays better when tossed around the line up.

 

[Billdo]

May be confusion on my part but thought the 10-game rule applied to junior and not the AHL. My understanding is that Mercer will be in NJ or Utica - not going back to the Q.

You're correct, I forgot he's A eligible so it would be the NHL or AHL for Mercer.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Pretending for a second Mercer and Holtz are at the same point in their respective progression arc, I feel like Holtz would be the only one "hurt" by being rushed. His game seems like a top 6 or nothing game, if you shove him down on the 3rd or 4th because he's not ready for top line minutes, he will have to learn to play a different type of game while ignoring the skills that he should be working on. Mercer is more like a Coleman, put him anywhere and he will get shit done. He seems like the type of guy who can work his way up the line up and change his game along the way. He might not have the ceiling Holtz does, but his style plays better when tossed around the line up.

Watching Mercer and his skillset I actually think his ceiling is very high. He skates well, has a pretty good shot and has unreal hands. He’s just a really deceptive and slippery player. He does stuff sometimes that not many players can do.