Devils 2021 training camp thread (news, notes and speculation) - Part III [MOD warning in OP]

[MartyOwns]

Potentially losing confidence, developing bad habits.

that's true, he might take up smoking

 

[devilsblood]

I believe Studenic is no longer waiver exempt, which may factor into their decision too.

I don't know these details, but given Stud's turns 23 in Oct, has played 120 games in the AHL over the last 3 years(plus some games in the slovak league) and has looked to top out down there in terms of production, I'm OK with Stud's as an extra fwd at the NHL level who rotates in and out of the lineup.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

So will we be able to see the game against the isles on Saturday?

 

[HyperX]

Potentially losing confidence.

But thats gotta be one of very few things..

my point by asking is if a player exudes a certain confidence or ability to adapt; that player should be given the chance to fall, since theyve proven to get back up before

I dont think Mercer would let it take away from him the way a Yakupov would (Zacha's confidence was already down when he made the move to NA, being without his father; so specifically I hate that example and wanted to get that out of the way early)

I think people 'rushing' is just having a player up who simply isnt mature enough yet for that level of detail/commitment/sacrifice/etc

Jack, for example, was NOT rushed and it was All in part to his attitude and high level of personal confidence at such a young age

 

[devilsblood]

that's true, he might take up smoking

That's why I'm against drafting so many euro's. Them guys smoke like chimney's. And they then pollute the minds of the pure NA players.

 

[billingtons ghost]

i think it's pretty obvious that he saw the (rightful) reaction to wilde and whoever else and chose his words very carefully. he's being vague on purpose because he doesn't want to be subject to the kind of vitriol that others have experienced.

he's not being asked to get a lung transplant. it's a vaccine, it's a shot. there's obviously no medical reason why he can't get it.

I don't know that this is true. I know of some friends that required medical exemptions because of potential side effects that outweighed the benefits of getting the vaccine. Mb29 already had the virus and has antibodies, so in truth getting the shot is relatively pointless unless the vax included other variants than the virus he had. I don't know if that is the case or not.

For people with autoimmune issues it isn't just a political thing.

 

[devilsblood]

But thats gotta be one of very few things..

my point by asking is if a player exudes a certain confidence or ability to adapt; that player should be given the chance to fall, since theyve proven to get back up before

I dont think Mercer would let it take away from him the way a Yakupov would (Zacha's confidence was already down when he made the move to NA, being without his father; so specifically I hate that example and wanted to get that out of the way early)

I think people 'rushing' is just having a player up who simply isnt mature enough yet for that level of detail/commitment/sacrifice/etc

Jack, for example, was NOT rushed and it was All in part to his attitude and high level of personal confidence at such a young age

Despite you not liking the example, I think Zacha is a good one. He played a full season in the NHL at 19 and struggled. You think it's not a good example because his confidence was already shaken, I think that reason magnified the confidence risk. Guys like Hughes and Mercer are brimming with confidence, Zacha not so much.

I also think time in a bad situation also needs to be considered, Mercer came to the NHL and struggled, we could send him down, and thus lesson the pressure, and allow him to regain that confidence.

Zacha was not afforded that luxury, and even the next season, perhaps because we had so little talent, perhaps because given his draft position, and the fact he spent the previous season in the NHL, sending him down would have looked pretty bad. So instead we kept rolling him out there, he didn't play well, he wasn't paired with quality linemates, and he just continued on in that rut.

Don't want to make this about Zacha, but it is an interesting example, and the differences, ie Mercer's confidence, and the option to send him to the AHL if he struggles, are interesting as well.

 

[devilsblood]

I don't know that this is true. I know of some friends that required medical exemptions because of potential side effects that outweighed the benefits of getting the vaccine. Mb29 already had the virus and has antibodies, so in truth getting the shot is relatively pointless unless the vax included other variants than the virus he had. I don't know if that is the case or not.

For people with autoimmune issues it isn't just a political thing.

I mention this above, but if he had some sort of medical concern, he would have mentioned he had a medical concern.

I do wonder if there is still a covid thread somewhere around here.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Shara's accuracy is decent and the power on his shot is excellent, but what's truly special in my view is his release. The puck is often in the goal before the goaltender even reacts to his shot, I simply cannot remember the last time I saw a shooter with such a quick release.

The other #17 is the last guy to do it.

 

[Beetlebum]

So can Blackwood play against the Rangers at MSG?

 

[Lou is God]

So can Blackwood play against the Rangers at MSG?

Yes, but if he was a Ranger he couldn't. I don't know why so don't ask me why.

 

[MartyOwns]

I don't know that this is true. I know of some friends that required medical exemptions because of potential side effects that outweighed the benefits of getting the vaccine. Mb29 already had the virus and has antibodies, so in truth getting the shot is relatively pointless unless the vax included other variants than the virus he had. I don't know if that is the case or not.

For people with autoimmune issues it isn't just a political thing.

people with autoimmune disorders aren’t precluded from getting the shot, generally speaking. in fact, and this is just personal experience, they are encouraged to get the vaccine because covid is more likely to seriously harm or kill them. are your friends professional athletes in the prime of their lives?

there’s always a chance he has some oddball medical condition that prevents him from getting the shot, and instead of communicating that he chose to talk in vague circles about ankle surgery. there’s a chance that he was fully vaccinated, and this whole thing has been a social experiment to better understand the relationship between athletes and the media. i’m talking in probabilities, and considering the evidence it’s pretty clear his motives behind not getting it. i don’t even care anymore, i’m just disappointed in his decision. but it’s still pretty ridiculous to hear fans throw absolutely any reasons they can think of at the wall and hope that one of them sticks to avoid admitting he’s being a selfish jackass.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

To get the best out of Tatar, he needs to play with a guy who’ll go in the dirty areas to get loose pucks like Gallagher did. He also needs a more defensive minded player to cover for him because playing without the puck is not his forte. That’s why the Tatar-Danault-Gallagher line was so effective for the Habs during the regular season. I think Mercer brings a lot of help without the puck and he’s great at chasing down pucks and board battles as well. Kuokkanen also brings that sandpaper aspect on that line, which is great for Tatar.

Having him alongside Hughes and Sharangovich would be a mistake IMO because none of them bring the skill set of what worked so well in Montreal.

Ty, exactly my thoughts.

 

[Mgd31]

Can't wait till Gulitti releases the lineups tonight for the game tomorrow.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Based on what I've seen so far:

Sharangovich - Hughes - Holtz
Zacha - Hischier - Bratt
Tatar - Mercer - Kuokkanen
Vesey - McLeod - Wood
Extra(s): Johnsson, Boqvist

Graves - Hamilton
Smith - Severson
Siegenthaler - Subban
Extra(s): Jaros

Blackwood
Bernier

This is what I'd go with too.

 

[Patrik26]

The other #17 is the last guy to do it.

Patrick Maroon?

 

[MtoD]

I don't know that this is true. I know of some friends that required medical exemptions because of potential side effects that outweighed the benefits of getting the vaccine. Mb29 already had the virus and has antibodies, so in truth getting the shot is relatively pointless unless the vax included other variants than the virus he had. I don't know if that is the case or not.

For people with autoimmune issues it isn't just a political thing.

There isn't really any medical condition that precludes you from getting vaccinated aside from known anaphylactic allergies to vaccine ingredients. ITP may be a relative contraindication but certainly isn't an absolute one. Autoimmune conditions certainly isn't one and that population would be at an increased risk of doing poorly with COVID and certainly would be advised to get vaccinated (including with a booster shot..). There are some out there that have been able to secure medical exemptions but there is neither science nor professional societies backing that..

The bolded is also completely incorrect. While we know that natural immunity is as good (if not better) than the vaccine, we also have data that the vaccine provides significant additional protection in those with natural immunity. You can certainly say vaccination in those with natural immunity may be 'less useful' but to say it's relatively pointless is very wrong. (Additionally, relying on natural immunity is less than ideal as without constant testing, won't know if your individual protection wanes.. whereas we will have great data on waning immunity on the population level in those following similar vaccine schedules).

Blackwood should certainly get the vaccine regardless of his prior COVID infection. His profession places him at higher risk for transmission. I'm happy to continue this conversation in the COVID thread or via DM, but wanted to correct this information here where others may see it.

(also happy to provide credentials to mods)

 

[SJinNewJersey]

We don’t need the constant negativity. The offseason is about Hope.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Would Mercer get much special teams play?

2nd pp unit perhaps.

Kind of a sidenote, but somewhat related, Shara looked pretty good on that first pp we had last night, and in general I think his play has warranted that he should play on the 2nd unit.

Just a quick sketch:

PP1
Hughes Zacha Nico Bratt Hamilton

pp2
Tatar Shara Smith Sev's

So maybe a spot there on that 2nd unit. Now say both guys make the team, who is a better fit on that 2nd unit Mercer or Holtz? The shooting of Holtz certainly sounds nice, but someone does need to take a faceoff, and maybe that is Mercer?

I'd load it up on 1st pp with the shooters. Assuming Holtz and Mercer make it:

pp1
hughes, sharangovich, holtz, nico, hamilton

pp2
mercer, zacha, bratt, tatar, smith

 

[JimEIV]

What is it about rushing a player that affects their long term development?

Not one uniform answer but traditionally when players have been put in roles they can't handle a cascade of events usually happen...coaches drops them a line, then coach begins to limit minutes and limit their roles and eventually bench them...the player begins to alter their game to stay in the lineup and they stop playing the game that got them to the show in the first place...in that situation there isn't much room to grow as your sole focus is staying in the lineup anyway possible.

The alternative is to let player play their game in lessor league where they are allowed to make mistakes and hone their game in a larger role in all situations.

When you're a rebuilding team the scenario isn't exactly the same...there is usually more leeway to make mistakes...but I think the coach plays a significant factor. We saw Hynes be very short with a lot of players saying things like "they don't get it" in public. Zacha made a few comments I remember after being benched that essentially said "nobody is telling me what I am doing wrong"...Ruff just recently said "it's time to get better or you are going to lose minutes". I think I saw that a couple of days ago.

So if you are young player and the situation is be productive or GTFOH, its absolutely better to be in the AHL learning than getting shit on by a coach trying to keep his job... because the alternative is losing valuable development time under strenuous conditions. Development time that you can never get back

 

[RangerDoggo]

So will we be able to see the game against the isles on Saturday?

I assumed yes but I don’t see any TV listing on NHL.com.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I don't know that this is true. I know of some friends that required medical exemptions because of potential side effects that outweighed the benefits of getting the vaccine. Mb29 already had the virus and has antibodies, so in truth getting the shot is relatively pointless unless the vax included other variants than the virus he had. I don't know if that is the case or not.

For people with autoimmune issues it isn't just a political thing.

if there were medical exemptions, the Devils would have released those by now. There aren't any.

 

[Tao Jersey Jones]

Imagine this scenario: you’re a reliable goal scorer for your team, and you’ve chosen not to get vaccinated. You miss a handful of games and your team ends up a point or two short of playoffs. Or you’re the starting goaltender, your backup can’t save a beach ball and your team misses out.

I don’t think teammates would shrug it off like they are currently. The question turns into: “why are we giving a roster spot to this guy if he doesn’t want to help us win?” Those are tough conversations to have within a locker room and responsibility falls on the leadership group. You need a unified voice and a strong captain.

 

[Billdo]

What is it about rushing a player that affects their long term development?

Getting complacent being on a bad team, developing bad habits, etc. Guys get rushed all the time and don't live up to their potential. Would they if they seasoned in the minors? Maybe, but who knows. I don't really mind either way if he stays because he's been impressive but I'm just hesitant to pencil him like some people around here.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

I love Mercer, I really do. I'm just so hesitant to put him into the lineup longer than the 9 game cup of coffee. Rushing guys can destroy their development and while he seems like a future stud for us, I don't want to rush him. It's quite a pickle.

May be confusion on my part but thought the 10-game rule applied to junior and not the AHL. My understanding is that Mercer will be in NJ or Utica - not going back to the Q.