Devils 2021 training camp thread (news, notes and speculation) - Part III [MOD warning in OP]

[Hisch13r]

Was he supposed to be in the lineup?

Yeah in the original lineup he was listed. Then come game day he wasn't there and didn't play

 

[Hisch13r]

5v5 shot contributions from last game. Jack was Jack. Holtz tied Johnsson for the most shot assists and was 2nd in total contributions. Nico did not look good and it shows up here where he had 0. Hope to see him with some better linemates and look more like himself next time

 

[Triumph]

Yet he had 11 5v5 points with Bratt, and 8 with Nico.

Wood was 3rd on the list in terms of points avec a team mate with 3 points.

So I think playing with those guys absolutely factored into his career high point totals.

And should also be noted that yes he put up points 3v3, and 4v4, but he also put up points on the PP, and as noted set a career high in terms of p/60 5v5.

So different factors, but improvements in nearly every aspect.

Then it's an unsustainable IPP with Nico, because there were only 8 goals scored with Pavel and Nico on the ice together. Nobody sustains getting points on every goal scored.

 

[Forge]

I think both holtz and mercer make the team at least for a few games to start the season

It's pretty interesting. I think it could depend on where the team wants to slot Zacha for one, and where they envision each of those guys playing in the big boy lineup. I don't think that it's completely unreasonable to think that you can plop Holtz down on Jack's wing already and that line would be amazingly offensively productive with Sharangovich. Holtz has to round out his off the puck game, but if you think that you can do that without that line getting cratered, then I think he has a viable chance of sticking around. He'll play 17-19 minutes of night in the NHL in that case.

If, however, you're looking at stashing these guys in the bottom 6, then I wonder if they aren't better served in Utica. Mercer has a game that would allow for him to be an effective bottom six guy, but do you want him playing 10 minutes a night here or 19 in Utica? Given how young he is, some of the missed development time the last two seasons, I get just wanting him to play more hockey. Holtz in my opinion shouldn't even really be considered for consistently bottom six role on the team.

 

[Hisch13r]

It's pretty interesting. I think it could depend on where the team wants to slot Zacha for one, and where they envision each of those guys playing in the big boy lineup. I don't think that it's completely unreasonable to think that you can plop Holtz down on Jack's wing already and that line would be amazingly offensively productive with Sharangovich. Holtz has to round out his off the puck game, but if you think that you can do that without that line getting cratered, then I think he has a viable chance of sticking around. He'll play 17-19 minutes of night in the NHL in that case.

If, however, you're looking at stashing these guys in the bottom 6, then I wonder if they aren't better served in Utica. Mercer has a game that would allow for him to be an effective bottom six guy, but do you want him playing 10 minutes a night here or 19 in Utica? Given how young he is, some of the missed development time the last two seasons, I get just wanting him to play more hockey. Holtz in my opinion shouldn't even really be considered for consistently bottom six role on the team.

That top 6-bottom 6 divide does not exist anymore. What they do with Zacha should be irrelevant. Let's say they do slot Holtz in with Hughes. Then you have Zacha and Mercer as interchangeable wings/centers on the 3rd line with Kuokkanen there too. Mercer with those 2 on the 3rd line and PP2/PK time is the better place for him to be if he continues to perform as he has than being in the AHL.

 

[Nico Hischier]

It's pretty interesting. I think it could depend on where the team wants to slot Zacha for one, and where they envision each of those guys playing in the big boy lineup. I don't think that it's completely unreasonable to think that you can plop Holtz down on Jack's wing already and that line would be amazingly offensively productive with Sharangovich. Holtz has to round out his off the puck game, but if you think that you can do that without that line getting cratered, then I think he has a viable chance of sticking around. He'll play 17-19 minutes of night in the NHL in that case.

If, however, you're looking at stashing these guys in the bottom 6, then I wonder if they aren't better served in Utica. Mercer has a game that would allow for him to be an effective bottom six guy, but do you want him playing 10 minutes a night here or 19 in Utica? Given how young he is, some of the missed development time the last two seasons, I get just wanting him to play more hockey. Holtz in my opinion shouldn't even really be considered for consistently bottom six role on the team.

I’m cool with mercer playing on the third line and special teams. I don’t expect someone like bratt to play all season without getting injured so I can see him being first in line to move up when there is an injury

 

[Nico Hischier]

Agreed on the lines. I'd probably go with someone else instead for the 4RW but it's the 4th line so whatever. I don't think there's been anything on Ty

Ooof you are right. I forgot foote. I knew there was someone I was missing

 

[devilsblood]

Then it's an unsustainable IPP with Nico, because there were only 8 goals scored with Pavel and Nico on the ice together. Nobody sustains getting points on every goal scored.

But that still goes against your original point.

Zacha performed on Nico's wing, in, as you noted, fairly limited minutes.

 

[Hisch13r]

Ooof you are right. I forgot foote. I knew there was someone I was missing

lol Wouldn't be my pick either. Foote's better suited to be getting big AHL minutes as he hasn't shown to be a good NHLer and having him play on the 4th line would not help that. The top line could be something like Foote-Boqvist-Clarke. I'd probably go with Johnsson as he generally gets the better of the 5v5 play, or Jankowski because his 5v5 defense is good and he's a good PKer, or Vesey because of his PKing ability.

 

[devilsblood]

I’m cool with mercer playing on the third line and special teams. I don’t expect someone like bratt to play all season without getting injured so I can see him being first in line to move up when there is an injury

Would Mercer get much special teams play?

2nd pp unit perhaps.

Kind of a sidenote, but somewhat related, Shara looked pretty good on that first pp we had last night, and in general I think his play has warranted that he should play on the 2nd unit.

Just a quick sketch:

PP1
Hughes Zacha Nico Bratt Hamilton

pp2
Tatar Shara Smith Sev's

So maybe a spot there on that 2nd unit. Now say both guys make the team, who is a better fit on that 2nd unit Mercer or Holtz? The shooting of Holtz certainly sounds nice, but someone does need to take a faceoff, and maybe that is Mercer?

 

[Triumph]

It's pretty interesting. I think it could depend on where the team wants to slot Zacha for one, and where they envision each of those guys playing in the big boy lineup. I don't think that it's completely unreasonable to think that you can plop Holtz down on Jack's wing already and that line would be amazingly offensively productive with Sharangovich. Holtz has to round out his off the puck game, but if you think that you can do that without that line getting cratered, then I think he has a viable chance of sticking around. He'll play 17-19 minutes of night in the NHL in that case.

If, however, you're looking at stashing these guys in the bottom 6, then I wonder if they aren't better served in Utica. Mercer has a game that would allow for him to be an effective bottom six guy, but do you want him playing 10 minutes a night here or 19 in Utica? Given how young he is, some of the missed development time the last two seasons, I get just wanting him to play more hockey. Holtz in my opinion shouldn't even really be considered for consistently bottom six role on the team.

I don't see why Mercer would get 10 minutes a game here. He would be on PP2 and play a top 9 role, that's 12+ minutes at least. Not really worried about his ice time.

That said, I think despite all the great stuff we saw from Holtz yesterday, he can use some time in the AHL. Playing with Hughes in a no-checking game, he's bound to look excellent, but I'm not sure his speed and strength are NHL level yet.

 

[Triumph]

But that still goes against your original point.

Zacha performed on Nico's wing, in, as you noted, fairly limited minutes.

They did fine. They were not world-beaters by any means. A couple goals went in above average, is that sustainable, I don't know, are people looking for this kind of thing from players they like less and calling it chemistry, absolutely not.

 

[Hisch13r]

I don't see why Mercer would get 10 minutes a game here. He would be on PP2 and play a top 9 role, that's 12+ minutes at least. Not really worried about his ice time.

That said, I think despite all the great stuff we saw from Holtz yesterday, he can use some time in the AHL. Playing with Hughes in a no-checking game, he's bound to look excellent, but I'm not sure his speed and strength are NHL level yet.

You might be right. I have no problems starting him off in the NHL if he keeps playing well and going from there

 

[Hisch13r]

I don't mind giving Kuokkanen a look on the PK.

 

[devilsblood]

They did fine. They were not world-beaters by any means. A couple goals went in above average, is that sustainable, I don't know, are people looking for this kind of thing from players they like less and calling it chemistry, absolutely not.

What other player had a big relative offensive season and scored a the biggest chunk of those points with a particular linemate(in limited minutes no less)?

If there is another similar example, I'd say yeah, let's keep those guys together.

 

[Triumph]

What other player had a big relative offensive season and scored a the biggest chunk of those points with a particular linemate(in limited minutes no less)?

If there is another similar example, I'd say yeah, let's keep those guys together.

Travis Zajac, but he retired.

Pavel Zacha did not have a big relative offensive season at 5v5.

 

[MauDevils]

Maybe Ty had to get the stick up his butt surgically removed.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I’ve always been intrigued by trying Wood on the PK. He’d be a much more useful player if he was decent at it.

 

[OmNomNom]

I’ve always been intrigued by trying Wood on the PK. He’d be a much more useful player if he was decent at it.

trying to make him into coleman on the PK i bet - make him pressure the blue line

 

[Devils731]

I’ve always been intrigued by trying Wood on the PK. He’d be a much more useful player if he was decent at it.

I don’t see Wood having the lateral movement needed for the PK but maybe he can surprise.

Point people would have to be honest with Wood on the ice.

If the PK is going to be super passive again this year then it really doesn’t matter how quick people are anyway because they’ll mostly just stand around doing not much until the other team finds the perfect play.

 

[Hisch13r]

trying to make him into coleman on the PK i bet - make him pressure the blue line

I mean they can try but I certainly wouldn't count on him being anywhere near as effective

 

[Forge]

 

[Hisch13r]

Yeah there's no way he doesn't make the team

 

[Forge]

I don’t see Wood having the lateral movement needed for the PK but maybe he can surprise.

Did grabner? I'm not sure how good of an actual preventative scoring player grabner was on the pk, but he could certainly create havoc and was always dangerous as a pker

 

[MartyOwns]

ah dammit, the main board was right about hamilton. overpaid piece of shit