Devils 2021 training camp thread (news, notes and speculation) - Part III [MOD warning in OP]

[devilsblood]

I understand your point...But I think this board is severely under-playing the lack of production from Jack.

Look at this way - This season was a complete and utter disaster for Nico. Injuries and COVID - Broken leg, disfigured face forcing him to play with the LEGO helmet , downtime, COVID breaks and delays...you probably couldn't get much worse...it led to the worst production of his career with 11 points in 21 games ...That's .52 ppg withe a career .63 ppg - Jack, in what everyone is celebrating as his "improvement" year just had .55 ppg - for total of .44 ppg over both years.

Jack is supposed to be the dynamic superstar with elite vision...The production hasn't been good...It hasn't even ok. The kid just averaged over 19 minutes a game to produce at 45 point pace. I am sorry that is horrible.

19 minutes a game was 38th overall in the league for forwards...Jack had a higher average time on ice than Barzal, Brad Marchand, Pastrnak and Backstrom to name a few.

Hughes does need to put more points on the board. He needs to put more points up 5v5, he needs to put more up on the PP.

I do think he shows a pretty clear ability to dominate puck possession. Not just corsi, but watching the game, the puck is on his stick a lot.

He just turned 20. So this will be his first season playing not as a teen ager. And he was pretty small even for a kid of that age. So as he gets some man strength, and get's more comfortable in the league, I think it's pretty easy to figure he will do a better job at putting points on the board.

He does need to prove it though.

 

[Hisch13r]

Could he be the new Bratt? Everyone pretty much was like, alright this is fun, can't wait until he is here full ti.....wait, he isn't going away.... he has no reason to go away. Well ok he earned it.

I don't think there'll ever be a "new Bratt". He's a complete anomaly. With Mercer there's been people leading up to the year who have been expecting him to make the team or at the very least make it a very difficult decision. He didn't come out of nowhere

 

[devilsblood]

Could he be the new Bratt? Everyone pretty much was like, alright this is fun, can't wait until he is here full ti.....wait, he isn't going away.... he has no reason to go away. Well ok he earned it.

Bratt came more from out of nowhere, but yeah, I do think Mercer is now, like Bratt did then, making it near impossible to send him down.

Of course Bratt would have gone to juniors and would have been down there all year(if I remember right) where as we can send Mercer down to the AHL and bring him back as we see fit.

 

[Hisch13r]

I understand your point...But I think this board is severely under-playing the lack of production from Jack.

Look at this way - This season was a complete and utter disaster for Nico. Injuries and COVID - Broken leg, disfigured face forcing him to play with the LEGO helmet , downtime, COVID breaks and delays...you probably couldn't get much worse...it led to the worst production of his career with 11 points in 21 games ...That's .52 ppg with a career .63 ppg - Jack, in what everyone is celebrating as his "improvement" year just had .55 ppg - for total of .44 ppg over both years.

Jack is supposed to be the dynamic superstar with elite vision...The production hasn't been good...It hasn't even ok. The kid just averaged over 19 minutes a game to produce at 45 point pace. I am sorry that is horrible.

19 minutes a game was 38th overall in the league for forwards...Jack had a higher average time on ice than Barzal, Brad Marchand, Pastrnak and Backstrom to name a few.

Thornton had 37 assists with over 21:18 a game in his 3rd season. Then 34 in 72 games at 21:45 in his 4th season. Jack had a 30 assist pace in fewer minutes a game at a younger age. You're severely over-playing the overall lack of production from Jack.

 

[Lou is God]

I understand your point...But I think this board is severely under-playing the lack of production from Jack.

Look at this way - This season was a complete and utter disaster for Nico. Injuries and COVID - Broken leg, disfigured face forcing him to play with the LEGO helmet , downtime, COVID breaks and delays...you probably couldn't get much worse...it led to the worst production of his career with 11 points in 21 games ...That's .52 ppg with a career .63 ppg - Jack, in what everyone is celebrating as his "improvement" year just had .55 ppg - for total of .44 ppg over both years.

Jack is supposed to be the dynamic superstar with elite vision...The production hasn't been good...It hasn't even ok. The kid just averaged over 19 minutes a game to produce at 45 point pace. I am sorry that is horrible.

19 minutes a game was 38th overall in the league for forwards...Jack had a higher average time on ice than Barzal, Brad Marchand, Pastrnak and Backstrom to name a few.

He's a driver and a driver is only good as his finishers, last year Palms was supposed to be one of this finishers but he was terrible, you comment on Jack without proper perspective. I like you Jim, but you're a contrarian at heart and I think that was drives you, you see people swooning over Jack so by nature you have to go against the flow.

Now if Jack has another non-productive year with the talent around him much improved, THEN you got a leg to stand on, right now you don't.

 

[FooteBahl]

I don't think there'll ever be a "new Bratt". He's a complete anomaly. With Mercer there's been people leading up to the year who have been expecting him to make the team or at the very least make it a very difficult decision. He didn't come out of nowhere

I think Shara will take the “new Bratt” award. We got a steal with him

 

[TrufleShufle]

I don't think there'll ever be a "new Bratt". He's a complete anomaly. With Mercer there's been people leading up to the year who have been expecting him to make the team or at the very least make it a very difficult decision. He didn't come out of nowhere

Oh 100%, it's not a complete parallel, but just in the sense that a large enough group at every step gets on board with him staying. Prospect challenge, training camp, now pre season.

 

[Hisch13r]

I think Shara will take the “new Bratt” award. We got a steal with him

He's probably the closest we'll see. Even then he was getting quite a bit of hype leading up to the year because of his KHL scoring. He was also 22 compared to 19

 

[Lou is God]

Doesn't necessarily mean anything.

I would not have thought so either but he was taken out of the lineup last night.

 

[Mr Bojanglez]

I think this is Hughes' year to see if he got it or not. Same for Nico.

I think Hughes can be an all-star. I'm not sure if he's going to be a "control the team" level of good (e.g., Crosby). But if we can get Backstrom like production out of him, that would be a win. I do not think Backstrom runs a whole team, but he's certainly an all-star caliber player.

 

[Hisch13r]

I would not have thought so either but he was taken out of the lineup last night.

I know and I don't think it necessarily means anything. Could be and also could not be

 

[AfroThunder396]

(whispers) Goals are a probabilistic function of the relative strength of any given 5-man unit and are largely driven by the quality of the team as a whole.

 

[Hisch13r]

I think this is Hughes' year to see if he got it or not. Same for Nico.

I think Hughes can be an all-star. I'm not sure if he's going to be a "control the team" level of good (e.g., Crosby). But if we can get Backstrom like production out of him, that would be a win. I do not think Backstrom runs a whole team, but he's certainly an all-star caliber player.

He was controlling the team last year. The production just wasn't there yet. I think the hope is you can get Nico to be that all star caliber center while Jack is the superstar

 

[devilsblood]

He's a driver and a driver is only good as his finishers, last year Palms was supposed to be one of this finishers but he was terrible, you comment on Jack without proper perspective. I like you Jim, but you're a contrarian at heart and I think that was drives you, you see people swooning over Jack so by nature you have to go against the flow.

Now if Jack has another non-productive year with the talent around him much improved, THEN you got a leg to stand on, right now you don't.

I know we all want to poop on Palms' year last year, but you would like to see the dynamic play maker mesh a little a proven goal scorer.

Different style of play? absolutely, but a little would have been nice.

Jack also didn't produce with his time with Shara and Kuok either. Nor did he produce on the PP.

So we do need to put some that on Jack.

Now I think you can do that and reasonably say, I'm not worried about, but this is an important season for him.

 

[devilsblood]

(whispers) Goals are a probabilistic function of the relative strength of any given 5-man unit and are largely driven by the quality of the team as a whole.

And every player does change that function. How much should a dynamic offensive player change those probabilities? I would think a fare amount.

This was in a normal voice btw.

 

[FooteBahl]

He was controlling the team last year. The production just wasn't there yet. I think the hope is you can get Nico to be that all star caliber center while Jack is the superstar

 

[Derps]

I know we all want to poop on Palms' year last year, but you would like to see the dynamic play mesh a little a proven goal scorer.

Different style of play? absolutely, but a little would have been nice.

Jack also didn't produce with his time with Shara and Kuok either. Nor did he produce on the PP.

So we do need to put some that on Jack.

Now I think you can do that and reasonably say, I'm not worried about, but this is an important season for him.

Not sure I really buy this line. He played extremely well and produced points the last 1/3 of the season.

 

[NJDevs26]

Talking about who you have on ignore or who is ignoring you on the board is a no-go, folks - it’s another form of personal sniping not to mention OT

 

[Lou is God]

I know we all want to poop on Palms' year last year, but you would like to see the dynamic play mesh a little a proven goal scorer.

Different style of play? absolutely, but a little would have been nice.

Jack also didn't produce with his time with Shara and Kuok either. Nor did he produce on the PP.

So we do need to put some that on Jack.

Now I think you can do that and reasonably say, I'm not worried about, but this is an important season for him.

But both Sharo and Kuoko were also rookies and the latter really isn't a proven offensive talent while former does looks legit. Not to mention we had no decent second line with Nico out most of the season so Jack's line faced every team's best.

Our lack of a decent PP is what I think hurt him a lot and the problem with that was we didn't really have a top offensive defenseman like we do this year with Hamilton plus a year older Ty Smith.

But people keep forgetting how strong Jack started last year until he got taken down with Covid, his first 13 games he had 4 goals and 7 assists and was playing great, then the season got FUBARed with Covid wrecking havic throughout the team, last year was a wash for not just him but the whole team.

And it's not excuses, it's hard reality.

It's just hard to believe after the game he had last night that people still want to doubt him. Whatever man.

 

[Hisch13r]

But both Kuoko and Sharo were also rookies and the latter really isn't a proven offensive talent while former does looks legit. Not to mention we had no decent second line with Nico out most of the season so Jack's line faced every team's best.

Our lack of a decent PP is what I think hurt him a lot and the problem with that was we didn't really have a top offensive defenseman like we do this year with Hamilton plus a year older Ty Smith.

But people keep forgetting how strong Jack started last year until he got taken down with Covid, his first 13 games he had 4 goals and 7 assists and was playing great, then the season got FUBARed with Covid wrecking havic throughout the team, last year was a wash for not just him but the whole team.

And it's not excuses, it's hard reality.

It's just hard to believe after the game he had last night that people still want to doubt him. Whatever man.

After what game? Didn’t you hear he wasn’t all that impressive last night

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Would Mercer get much special teams play?

2nd pp unit perhaps.

Kind of a sidenote, but somewhat related, Shara looked pretty good on that first pp we had last night, and in general I think his play has warranted that he should play on the 2nd unit.

Just a quick sketch:

PP1
Hughes Zacha Nico Bratt Hamilton

pp2
Tatar Shara Smith Sev's

So maybe a spot there on that 2nd unit. Now say both guys make the team, who is a better fit on that 2nd unit Mercer or Holtz? The shooting of Holtz certainly sounds nice, but someone does need to take a faceoff, and maybe that is Mercer?

No Kuokkanen on the first unit or Wood in front with the second group seem like glaring omissions after last year.

Also think PK on a second unit now that the Devils have Hamilton becomes more effective; avoiding using the first unit for 1:45 at a time and getting stale.

 

[devilsblood]

But both Sharo and Kuoko were also rookies and the latter really isn't a proven offensive talent while former does looks legit. Not to mention we had no decent second line with Nico out most of the season so Jack's line faced every team's best.

Our lack of a decent PP is what I think hurt him a lot and the problem with that was we didn't really have a top offensive defenseman like we do this year with Hamilton plus a year older Ty Smith.

But people keep forgetting how strong Jack started last year until he got taken down with Covid, his first 13 games he had 4 goals and 7 assists and was playing great, then the season got FUBARed with Covid wrecking havic throughout the team, last year was a wash for not just him but the whole team.

And it's not excuses, it's hard reality.

It's just hard to believe after the game he had last night that people still want to doubt him. Whatever man.

Jack's line did not face other teams best lines, and that goes for pre or post Nico. Zajac's line faced the tough minutes pre Nico.

And I'm not doubting Hughes at all. Didn't doubt him before last nights preseason game either. But he does need to go out there and put up points, over the course of a full 82 game season.

 

[Nubmer6]

But that still goes against your original point.

Zacha performed on Nico's wing, in, as you noted, fairly limited minutes.

Is that true, or was most of Zacha's gains purely on the PP? Are there any stats on that?

 

[devilsblood]

No Kuokkanen on the first unit or Wood in front with the second group seem like glaring omissions after last year.

Also think PK on a second unit now that the Devils have Hamilton becomes more effective; avoiding using the first unit for 1:45 at a time and getting stale.

Kuok on the first pp unit? No chance.

Wood on the 2nd? Maybe. I don't love him on the PP, but oddly I could see him being used on the first unit, and maybe one of the centers playing on the 2nd unit, though again I don't love it.

 

[britdevil]

Oh, we talking about Hughes’ production in here? Fresh topic that.