Devils 2021 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part XXII

[NJDevs26]

He's been the whipping boy here much of this year, I think undeservedly so, and I'll be super bummed if Palms is dealt or he leaves.

Just one guy's opinion though.

It’s gonna really look bad for Fitz and the Devils if this guy has another four or five 25+ goal, 50-55 point seasons after making zero attempt to bring him back. They’d better hope this season isn’t an obvious outlier and he has a swift descent a la Hall seemingly. Nobody cares right now they made zero attempt to sign Hall because he’s going into space junk land but they can’t just keep trading proven talent for futures forever.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Hey guys, I have been dealing with medical issues and have missed most of the season. I see P.K.s scoring is up and hi corsi has been climbing as well, how has hee been looking? Also, are Jack and Ty showing improvement?

Thanks for the updates

I admittedly dislike PK a lot, but the past 1-2 weeks he has been much better IMO

Ty Smith is already a top 4 NHL DMan at 20....granted, he has been struggling a bit the past few games.

Jack has been much better overall than last year....he has had some poor puck luck but with a couple more bounces and better linemates overall, he would be up near a point per game IMO. He dominates out there at times.

Hope you are doing well!

 

[Ol Dirty Bstrd]

I am one of the first to rag on PK but he has been playing some good hockey recently. Definitely his best sustained stretch as a Devil. It’s pretty timely too since Severson has had a rough go of it lately

 

[Ol Dirty Bstrd]

On another note Vats just does not have NHL foot speed anymore. Too bad because he was a very solid defenseman as recently as 2 years ago and decent last year as well. I wonder who would win in a race between him, Butcher and Jimmy Hayes

 

[MartyOwns]

Hey guys, I have been dealing with medical issues and have missed most of the season. I see P.K.s scoring is up and hi corsi has been climbing as well, how has hee been looking? Also, are Jack and Ty showing improvement?

Thanks for the updates

this is the best stretch i've seen subban play since he was acquired. not just offensively, but his defensive play is night and day from where it was. feel better

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

It’s gonna really look bad for Fitz and the Devils if this guy has another four or five 25+ goal, 50-55 point seasons after making zero attempt to bring him back. They’d better hope this season isn’t an obvious outlier and he has a swift descent a la Hall seemingly. Nobody cares right now they made zero attempt to sign Hall because he’s going into space junk land but they can’t just keep trading proven talent for futures forever.

Unless I am forgetting someone it just seems that they traded Coleman away in the last few years. Like you said Hall is not playing well and Greene is not part of the future for the Devils. They traded Vats and Simmonds last year but I am not exactly sweating those and we "fortunately" got Vats back. Am I forgetting anyone?

 

[Unknown Caller]

It’s gonna really look bad for Fitz and the Devils if this guy has another four or five 25+ goal, 50-55 point seasons after making zero attempt to bring him back. They’d better hope this season isn’t an obvious outlier and he has a swift descent a la Hall seemingly. Nobody cares right now they made zero attempt to sign Hall because he’s going into space junk land but they can’t just keep trading proven talent for futures forever.

Is it really going to look bad for him if Palmieri puts up another few 25+ goal seasons and we get let’s say a 1st and a decent prospect for him?

How bad is it going to look for Fitz if we keep Palmieri when we’re not ready to contend and his play continues to drop off (it’s going to, he’s 30 years old) and we passed up key assets that fit in with our timeline?

For both our sake and Palm’s sake, let him go help a team that needs him right now for assets that will help us in the future. He’s a fan favorite, but you need to disassociate emotions with decision making.

 

[glenwo2]

Kyle Palmieri considering his options as trade deadline looms over extension talk with Devils

“Palmieri’s current deal includes an eight-team no-trade clause, which Bartlett said was updated in September before the start of this season. Would he consider waiving it for the right situation?

“I think so,” Palmieri said, without specifying whether he’d waive it to join a Canadian team, and undergo the mandatory two-week quarantine.”

—————-

It’s good to know Palmieri would probably waive his NTC. I assume that most teams interest in him would be amenable; although I hope the Canadian teams are options. The more bidders then the higher the price.

Also, sounds like both sides are still playing a big of hardball for an extension. Palm’s agent has his evidence that some contracts appear unaffected by the flat cap and I’m sure the Devils are saying wingers will be significantly impacted by the flat cap.

More from that article (via Fitz's words) :

“I don’t think there is any doubt that we want to keep him,” Fitzgerald said. “Everybody in our organization loves Kyle Palmieri, respects what he’s done for this organization over the past five, six years. I wouldn’t be talking to (Bartlett) if I didn’t think that. I wouldn’t even waste my breath.


“I’m as transparent as they come. I never want to be a guy who people feels like I dance around questions. I would love nothing better than to have Kyle Palmieri be part of our group.”

“The big question is the market, and the flat cap, and what is the future?” Fitzgerald said. “Is it what we saw this (past) summer? Is it going to continue like that for UFAs, anyway? Those are the questions I’m asking myself and I’m asking Brian. Do we think it will be a mirror image of this summer? Is this going to be a reset for teams? When did the five, six, seven-year deals come into play, and are we now down to, ‘Hey, we love you, but the term is three to four years?’ I’m not saying that it is for this, but I just don’t know which way the league is actually going to go.
“I don’t have a crystal ball, and Father Time comes for everyone differently. Those are all questions I have, and I think they’re legitimate questions.”


Fair point by Fitz.

 

[FooteBahl]

More from that article (via Fitz's words) :

“I don’t think there is any doubt that we want to keep him,” Fitzgerald said. “Everybody in our organization loves Kyle Palmieri, respects what he’s done for this organization over the past five, six years. I wouldn’t be talking to (Bartlett) if I didn’t think that. I wouldn’t even waste my breath.


“I’m as transparent as they come. I never want to be a guy who people feels like I dance around questions. I would love nothing better than to have Kyle Palmieri be part of our group.”

“The big question is the market, and the flat cap, and what is the future?” Fitzgerald said. “Is it what we saw this (past) summer? Is it going to continue like that for UFAs, anyway? Those are the questions I’m asking myself and I’m asking Brian. Do we think it will be a mirror image of this summer? Is this going to be a reset for teams? When did the five, six, seven-year deals come into play, and are we now down to, ‘Hey, we love you, but the term is three to four years?’ I’m not saying that it is for this, but I just don’t know which way the league is actually going to go.
“I don’t have a crystal ball, and Father Time comes for everyone differently. Those are all questions I have, and I think they’re legitimate questions.”


Fair point by Fitz.

Man, we’ve come a long way from the “don’t worry about my cap” era. You really can’t argue with anything he said.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

 

[glenwo2]

Well that's good news as far as Zacha goes.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

A 3 year deal would be perfect for Palmieri. We need someone that can put it in the net before Holtz and Foote are ready. He’s not doing that right now but we all know what he’s capable of.

 

[Blackjack]

More from that article (via Fitz's words) :

“I don’t think there is any doubt that we want to keep him,” Fitzgerald said. “Everybody in our organization loves Kyle Palmieri, respects what he’s done for this organization over the past five, six years. I wouldn’t be talking to (Bartlett) if I didn’t think that. I wouldn’t even waste my breath.


“I’m as transparent as they come. I never want to be a guy who people feels like I dance around questions. I would love nothing better than to have Kyle Palmieri be part of our group.”

“The big question is the market, and the flat cap, and what is the future?” Fitzgerald said. “Is it what we saw this (past) summer? Is it going to continue like that for UFAs, anyway? Those are the questions I’m asking myself and I’m asking Brian. Do we think it will be a mirror image of this summer? Is this going to be a reset for teams? When did the five, six, seven-year deals come into play, and are we now down to, ‘Hey, we love you, but the term is three to four years?’ I’m not saying that it is for this, but I just don’t know which way the league is actually going to go.
“I don’t have a crystal ball, and Father Time comes for everyone differently. Those are all questions I have, and I think they’re legitimate questions.”


Fair point by Fitz.

This to me reads like a GM getting ready to cut bait in the most tactful way possible. Palmieri's agent is right, the Gallagher contract was signed in October 2020, very much post-Covid, and suggests that the market hasn't actually changed that much. If Fitz doesn't give Palmieri a similar deal, it's because he looked at Palms's production this season and decided to move on.

 

[Unknown Caller]

A 3 year deal would be perfect for Palmieri. We need someone that can put it in the net before Holtz and Foote are ready. He’s not doing that right now but we all know what he’s capable of.

At what opportunity cost though? Would you trade a 1st and mid level prospect for 3 years of Palmieri given our current situation?

If I’m the Bruins or the Islanders or the Leafs, I do. If I’m the New Jersey Devils, I’m not trading a 1st and a prospect for a 30 year old winger.

 

[Hisch13r]

This to me reads like a GM getting ready to cut bait in the most tactful way possible. Palmieri's agent is right, the Gallagher contract was signed in October 2020, very much post-Covid, and suggests that the market hasn't actually changed that much. If Fitz doesn't give Palmieri a similar deal, it's because he looked at Palms's production this season and decided to move on.

On the other hand Dadonov getting the deal he got shows that the market has changed. Hoffman getting what he got. Hall didn’t get great offers either.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

This to me reads like a GM getting ready to cut bait in the most tactful way possible. Palmieri's agent is right, the Gallagher contract was signed in October 2020, very much post-Covid, and suggests that the market hasn't actually changed that much. If Fitz doesn't give Palmieri a similar deal, it's because he looked at Palms's production this season and decided to move on.

One big difference between Palms and Gallagher - Canadians are in win now mode. The problem for Palms is that Gallagher was a re sign to his own team. How did the players that made it to UFA do? If the Devils do not re sign that is probably where he is headed

 

[My3Sons]

This to me reads like a GM getting ready to cut bait in the most tactful way possible. Palmieri's agent is right, the Gallagher contract was signed in October 2020, very much post-Covid, and suggests that the market hasn't actually changed that much. If Fitz doesn't give Palmieri a similar deal, it's because he looked at Palms's production this season and decided to move on.

I don't think Palms gets a five six year deal for more than $6 mil per based on his current play. Frankly, if he wants money he should ask for a trade and hope he plays better on a playoff team down the stretch.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

At what opportunity cost though? Would you trade a 1st and mid level prospect for 3 years of Palmieri given our current situation?

If I’m the Bruins or the Islanders or the Leafs, I do. If I’m the New Jersey Devils, I’m not trading a 1st and a prospect for a 30 year old winger.

I value Jack and Nico’s development and our ability to win some games over a late 1st for sure. I just don’t want this team to be a wasteland for much longer.

If you’re getting a terrific prospect that can come in immediately, that’s another thing. But idk if Palmieri is getting that return at this point.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

On the other hand Dadonov getting the deal he got shows that the market has changed. Hoffman getting what he got. Hall didn’t get great offers either.

If you can get Palmieri to sign for Dadanov's deal ($5m AAV x 3) I think you have to do it. I think $5m AAV is the floor on any hypothetical deal Palmieri would sign before the deadline, and i'm comfortable with any term from 1-4 years at that price for sure.

 

[My3Sons]

I value Jack and Nico’s development and our ability to win some games over a late 1st for sure. I just don’t want this team to be a wasteland for much longer.

If you’re getting a terrific prospect that can come in immediately, that’s another thing. But idk if Palmieri is getting that return at this point.

maybe there is a middle ground of a three year deal at a higher cap hit?

 

[Darkauron]

I feel like it is 60/40 that Palms resigns with us vs being traded.

 

[Billdo]

So if the term will be the hang up with Palmieri maybe a 3x6 or 6.5 works.

 

[Blackjack]

If you can get Palmieri to sign for Dadanov's deal ($5m AAV x 3) I think you have to do it. I think $5m AAV is the floor on any hypothetical deal Palmieri would sign before the deadline, and i'm comfortable with any term from 1-4 years at that price for sure.

Palmieri is not signing that contract unless no one offers him better. Reading what his agent said, he's looking for Kreider/Kane money. A guy that wants $6-$7 million over 6 or 7 years is not signing 3x$5 without testing the market first.

 

[Blackjack]

What I got from the article:

Palmieri will be traded - almost 100%
In UFA, Palmieri will be open to coming back, but Fitz will want him at a bargain price, and other teams will have a chance to outbid us.

 

[MartyOwns]

What I got from the article:

Palmieri will be traded - almost 100%
In UFA, Palmieri will be open to coming back, but Fitz will want him at a bargain price, and other teams will have a chance to outbid us.

i hope you're right, that's my ideal scenario