Devils 2020-21 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part XIV

[Nico Hischier]

Gusev Hughes palmieri sounds good but might be bad. I think we are going to lose one of palms or goose this year if we are out of it by the deadline. Right now ruff has palms tied to the hip with jack

 

[Nubmer6]

Just comparing Bratt-Zacha-Gusev to Zacha-Nico-Bratt then I think it makes more sense. If you go with Zacha-Nico-Bratt then Gusev is not going to produce and you're wasting a great offensive talent.

Gusev spent the majority of last season with Zajac and Coleman. In fact, his production picked up when he was moved to that line after his slow start.

 

[Hisch13r]

Gusev spent the majority of last season with Zajac and Coleman. In fact, his production picked up when he was moved to that line after his slow start.

Yeah but we don't have a Coleman now. Coleman at 5v5 was legitimately a top 6 caliber forward last year and I'd say even arguably a 1st liner. He was 124th in 5v5 P/60 and 16th in 5v5 G/60 and that's on top of being great defensively. Unless you're expecting Wood to continue his play to start the season (I don't and even if he does I don't think his style meshes with Gusev as well as Coleman's did) then I don't see how you're getting that level of production from Gusev unless he's with Nico or Hughes

Edit: 6th in 5v5 ixG/60. 3rd in 5v5 iSF/60. 8th in 5v5 iCF/60. Coleman was a f***ing beast and underrated even among Devils fans. I think many see him as the ideal 3rd liner. He was better than that

 

[Nubmer6]

Yeah but we don't have a Coleman now. Coleman at 5v5 was legitimately a top 6 caliber forward last year and I'd say even arguably a 1st liner. He was 124th in 5v5 P/60 and 16th in 5v5 G/60 and that's on top of being great defensively. Unless you're expecting Wood to continue his play to start the season (I don't and even if he does I don't think his style meshes with Gusev as well as Coleman's did) then I don't see how you're getting that level of production from Gusev unless he's with Nico or Hughes

Edit: 6th in 5v5 ixG/60. 3rd in 5v5 iSF/60. 8th in 5v5 iCF/60. Coleman was a f***ing beast and underrated even among Devils fans. I think many see him as the ideal 3rd liner. He was better than that

True, although if you REALLY shuffled the lines, you could go Sharangovich - Zajac - Gusev, which would semi-replicate Coleman-Zajac-Gusev. Not saying I'd do it, but I think it's a possibility if things go awry (injuries, cold streaks, etc).

 

[Guttersniped]

Yeah but we don't have a Coleman now. Coleman at 5v5 was legitimately a top 6 caliber forward last year and I'd say even arguably a 1st liner. He was 124th in 5v5 P/60 and 16th in 5v5 G/60 and that's on top of being great defensively. Unless you're expecting Wood to continue his play to start the season (I don't and even if he does I don't think his style meshes with Gusev as well as Coleman's did) then I don't see how you're getting that level of production from Gusev unless he's with Nico or Hughes

Edit: 6th in 5v5 ixG/60. 3rd in 5v5 iSF/60. 8th in 5v5 iCF/60. Coleman was a f***ing beast and underrated even among Devils fans. I think many see him as the ideal 3rd liner. He was better than that

Except that Coleman had 2G and 1A in his 1st the first two games and then had 1G and 0A in 14 games before the Coleman-Zajac-Gusev was put together. He and Zajac played with a succession of forwards before Gusev: Wood, Zacha, Boqvist and Simmonds. Their line with Gusev was immediately effective and was more effective 5v5 than the weirdly beloved Bratt-Zacha-Gusev line.

Gusev was productive with shooters like Coleman and Bratt. It makes sense to assume that Johnsson could find success with him. I’m not sure where to put Gusev but he definitely can be a catalyst for scoring in a line.

 

[Hisch13r]

Except that Coleman had 2G and 1A in his 1st the first two games and then had 1G and 0A in 14 games before the Coleman-Zajac-Gusev was put together. He and Zajac played with a succession of forwards before Gusev: Wood, Zacha, Boqvist and Simmonds. Their line with Gusev was immediately effective and was more effective 5v5 than the weirdly beloved Bratt-Zacha-Gusev line.

Gusev was productive with shooters like Coleman and Bratt. It makes sense to assume that Johnsson could find success with him. I’m not sure where to put Gusev but he definitely can be a catalyst for scoring in a line.

Gusev is obviously the best player out of those guys you listed so it's clear why Coleman's production jumped with him. They helped each other.

If you go with Zacha-Nico-Bratt then that leaves Gusev in a weird spot. If put him with Johnsson like you're saying then who centers them? McLeod? I could see that being a worse version of the Coleman-Zajac-Gusev line as Johnsson and McLeod are worse versions of Coleman and Zajac. I don't think that puts him in the best position to succeed. I see no reason to break up Wood and Zajac. Are you going to break up the Hughes line to put Johnsson and Gusev with him and move Sharangovich and Palms with McLeod? That doesn't seem smart either. I do not see how the lineup is optimized without going with Bratt-Nico-Gusev unless the line Gusev-Hughes-Palms works

 

[britdevil]

Shara - Hughes - Palmieri
Bratt - Nico - Zacha
Wood - Zajac - Gusev
Johnsson - McLeod - Bastian
Boqvist

Murray - Subban
Kulikov - Severson
Smith - Vatanen
Tennyson

Blackwood
Dell

EDIT: f*** me, totally forgot Zacha. I guess chuck him on wing with Nico. Don't like Boqvist sitting, maybe he should go to Bing. Hmmmm.... Trade bait?

 

[ninetyeight]

Shara - Hughes - Palmieri
Bratt - Nico - Zacha
Wood - Zajac - Gusev
Johnsson - McLeod - Bastian
Boqvist

Murray - Subban
Kulikov - Severson
Smith - Vatanen
Tennyson

I love this. I think Zacha plays best on wing and especially with those guys. Gusev needs defensively solid guys so I like him with Zajac. The 4th line is whatever. Honestly I was hoping Johnsson would be a middle6 fwd maybe even top6, but it is what it is maybe he just needs time to adjust. Palmieri needs to get back to his old self, it's pretty incredible how good Hughes had been even though Palms has struggled.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Kuokkanen, Boqvist, McLeod, Bastian, and Sharangovich have some extra motivation over the next week. One of them is coming out (barring injury).

Johnsson. All of those guys have outplayed him, and aside from Bastian they all have more raw talent.

 

[StevenToddIves]

They are going to give Johnsson plenty of rope to settle in. He isn't getting benched anytime soon.

We're not talking about a player with more upside than, say, Boqvist or Kuokkanen who just hasn't performed up to his abilities yet. Johnsson is a digger with a good shot and a nose for the net, but I'm not sure where the idea came from that he is some huge potential player who was just blocked in Toronto. But Johnsson does not have the passing vision, skating or hockey sense even close to a player like Boqvist. Boqvist is the player you give "rope" to, because he could be an impact player someday. Kuokkanen is the player you give "rope" to because he can be a terrific second-line, two-way player someday. With Johnsson, I think we're talking about an average third-liner with above average scoring pop on his best day. Johnsson is going on 27 -- probably considered about the prime for an average NHL-er, and he has 30 career goals in 128 career games. What do we think he is going to accomplish that he has not already?

I'm not trying to be argumentative or negative here, but the Devils have looked really good so far and the last thing I want to do is derail it. Do we really want to bench a kid playing great like Boqvist or Sharangovich on the vague hope that Johnsson somehow possesses some secret, latent talent that no one has seen yet? There's no point. I think Johnsson's a great add as a fill in who can slot in various spots in the roster in case of injury or whatever, but there's just no way he's one of the 8 best wingers on the 2020-21 Devils roster.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Govich

Sharangoalvich.

 

[lacerated]

btw, "shara" in belorussian/russian ("шара") means "freebie".

 

[KaraLupin]

Gusev Hughes palmieri sounds good but might be bad. I think we are going to lose one of palms or goose this year if we are out of it by the deadline. Right now ruff has palms tied to the hip with jack

They are just playing well together, I wouldn't read too much into it as "building stock to be traded". Palmieri is a vet, but still one of the top players on the team, and someone that a guy like Hughes can grow massively from playing with. Especially in regards to the physical side.

 

[Devil X]

This will be tough. I think you could see guys rotating in depending on who we play if this doesnt sort itself out be the time both Nico and Bratt are ready.

With Bratt I think its is most likely going to happen.

Sharangovich - Hughes - Palmieri
Bratt - Zacha - Gusev
Wood - Zajac - Boqvist
Johnsson - McLeod - Bastian

With Nico. I dont think McLeod deserves to come out but I think he is the guy that does. He makes the most sense. Doesnt need waivers can go down to Bing or stay up on the Taxi squad or as the 13th forward. Also while it should mean anything the "big" forward we added who just hasnt found it yet isnt going to be the guy to sit long term. He might get game just to send a message but that it. Also he is known to play with higher talent. At some point we need to slot him next to Hughes or Nico and see what he can bring. I think he might work well with Nico. Johnsson Nico Palmieri could be a pretty solid line.

Johnsson - Nico - Palmieri - This will be a tough line to play against and we havent scratched Johnsson's surface yet. He needs better talent to play with.
Shara - Hughes - Bratt - Shara and Wood could rotate here depending but Bratt can keep up with Hughes mentally and physically. Shara and Wood have their role on this line
Wood - Zajac - Goose - Let Goose provide the offense while the others do the dirty work. Shara here give Goose a sniper but I dunno if that will matter.
Boqvist - Zacha - Bastian - Zacha and Bastian are good Defensively and Boqvist has improved. Zacha has flashes of offense and Boqvist will come around also. If you want then Push Zacha over and Boqvist sits. Then Zacha McLeod Bastian becomes the 4th line.

 

[GameSeven]

Let's call Shara, Shoresy, ala Letterkenny

 

[Better Call Sal]

Let's call Shara, Shoresy, ala Letterkenny

Ha! I wouldn’t mind.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Johnsson. All of those guys have outplayed him, and aside from Bastian they all have more raw talent.

Kuokkanen hasn’t shown anything. Johnsson will be given more than a few games before he’s scratched imo.

 

[The 29th Pick]

Good thing nobody listens to has beens

Hey you're a funny kid,
when are you due back in boy's town!

 

[HBK27]

Shara - Hughes - Palmieri
Bratt - Nico - Zacha
Wood - Zajac - Gusev
Johnsson - McLeod - Bastian
Boqvist

Murray - Subban
Kulikov - Severson
Smith - Vatanen
Tennyson

Blackwood
Dell

EDIT: f*** me, totally forgot Zacha. I guess chuck him on wing with Nico. Don't like Boqvist sitting, maybe he should go to Bing. Hmmmm.... Trade bait?

What are we doing with Butcher in this situation? If he gets dealt, that only leaves Severson and Subban meeting the expansion exposure requirements unless Murray, Vatanen or Kulikov are resigned.

I think the roster needs to be sorted out before any serious discussion of benching a veteran forward, because as it is any forward scratch needs to be moved to the taxi squad.

Have to hope that we can get one of Wedgewood or Comrie through waivers to the taxi squad. Comrie will almost assuredly be claimed by Winnipeg, so I think there's a decent chance Wedgewood hits waivers once Dell is available. If he gets claimed (maybe Edmonton), Fitz has a decision to make whether or not he risks trying to send Comrie through as well or stick with 3 goalies on the active roster. If they lose both, perhaps Fitz can sign Zane McIntyre and have him rotate with Senn and Cormier between the AHL & taxi squad. Also a chance a team claims Wedgewood now, but waives him later versus keeping him on the active roster.

One of Carrick (most likely) or Tennyson will also have to hit waivers once Vatanen is ready. If they want more roster flexibility, the remaining player may also be put on waivers. If Carrick gets claimed though, they may be more hesitant to waive Tennyson, especially considering the lack of depth at defense and higher chance of injuries among the starters (Murray, Subban, Vatanen) and look to keep 8 defensemen.

To sum it up: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Triumph]

We're not talking about a player with more upside than, say, Boqvist or Kuokkanen who just hasn't performed up to his abilities yet. Johnsson is a digger with a good shot and a nose for the net, but I'm not sure where the idea came from that he is some huge potential player who was just blocked in Toronto. But Johnsson does not have the passing vision, skating or hockey sense even close to a player like Boqvist. Boqvist is the player you give "rope" to, because he could be an impact player someday. Kuokkanen is the player you give "rope" to because he can be a terrific second-line, two-way player someday. With Johnsson, I think we're talking about an average third-liner with above average scoring pop on his best day. Johnsson is going on 27 -- probably considered about the prime for an average NHL-er, and he has 30 career goals in 128 career games. What do we think he is going to accomplish that he has not already?

I'm not trying to be argumentative or negative here, but the Devils have looked really good so far and the last thing I want to do is derail it. Do we really want to bench a kid playing great like Boqvist or Sharangovich on the vague hope that Johnsson somehow possesses some secret, latent talent that no one has seen yet? There's no point. I think Johnsson's a great add as a fill in who can slot in various spots in the roster in case of injury or whatever, but there's just no way he's one of the 8 best wingers on the 2020-21 Devils roster.

Nobody thinks that Johnsson is some huge potential player, but he's been a good player in Toronto. He got 3rd line minutes and scored at a 1st line rate in 2018-19. The Devils don't have a lot of players who get to the net and score from in close - Johnsson is one of them. He hasn't had a great first three games, but neither has his line - Johnsson is the finisher on that line, Zacha and Gusev are the setup guys.

Still wouldn't mind swapping Sharangovich and Johnsson in the lineup and wouldn't be surprised if we see that soon, depending on how things go with Sharangovich.

 

[Better Call Sal]

Nobody thinks that Johnsson is some huge potential player, but he's been a good player in Toronto. He got 3rd line minutes and scored at a 1st line rate in 2018-19. The Devils don't have a lot of players who get to the net and score from in close - Johnsson is one of them. He hasn't had a great first three games, but neither has his line - Johnsson is the finisher on that line, Zacha and Gusev are the setup guys.

Still wouldn't mind swapping Sharangovich and Johnsson in the lineup and wouldn't be surprised if we see that soon, depending on how things go with Sharangovich.

I agree. I know we all fall in love with the rookies out of the gate but I would anticipate Johnsson gets a shot there at some point as well. The way Hughes is playing, I think it’s only a matter of time before he gets Palms rolling, along with whatever lucky bastard who gets the other wing spot.

 

[Nubmer6]

btw, "shara" in belorussian/russian ("шара") means "freebie".

That's it. "Wapa" it is!

 

[KaraLupin]

This is just a poor judge of anything. Half of those Gusev shots were him spinning around and flailing the puck on net with next to zero chance of scoring.

Boqvist has looked phenomenal on a checking line with Zajac, shutting down plays in the defensive and neutral zone frequently against top lines. Kuokkanen has been a big part of McLeod-Bastian’s ability to look noticeable.

Johnsson has admittedly looked very mediocre so far. Then again, Zacha is coasting around like he does most of the time and Gusev has his own faults to overcome. Not the easiest position to start out as, but he hasn’t done himself any favors with his training camp either.

This. For those who did not see him play in Russia, he NEEDS a shooter, not to BE the shooter.

His game is not suited for the tight spaced NHL at all, and a majority of his points last year were him praying on weaker matchups, that even his one dimensional game excelled at.

He seems like a "skill" player, but in NA you can watch and see he has severe limitations to that in North America.

He can run a second PP unit, but unless he proves he can process the game quicker he is not going to be a top 6 player, and a perfect storm like last year for him is not likely to happen again. He probably heads back to the K next year if he can't figure it out this season...

 

[Nubmer6]

We're not talking about a player with more upside than, say, Boqvist or Kuokkanen who just hasn't performed up to his abilities yet. Johnsson is a digger with a good shot and a nose for the net, but I'm not sure where the idea came from that he is some huge potential player who was just blocked in Toronto. But Johnsson does not have the passing vision, skating or hockey sense even close to a player like Boqvist. Boqvist is the player you give "rope" to, because he could be an impact player someday. Kuokkanen is the player you give "rope" to because he can be a terrific second-line, two-way player someday. With Johnsson, I think we're talking about an average third-liner with above average scoring pop on his best day. Johnsson is going on 27 -- probably considered about the prime for an average NHL-er, and he has 30 career goals in 128 career games. What do we think he is going to accomplish that he has not already?

I'm not trying to be argumentative or negative here, but the Devils have looked really good so far and the last thing I want to do is derail it. Do we really want to bench a kid playing great like Boqvist or Sharangovich on the vague hope that Johnsson somehow possesses some secret, latent talent that no one has seen yet? There's no point. I think Johnsson's a great add as a fill in who can slot in various spots in the roster in case of injury or whatever, but there's just no way he's one of the 8 best wingers on the 2020-21 Devils roster.

Well, if you were to go by Cordell's advanced stats, an argument could be made that he's produced at a 1st line rate previously. Now, that may be a byproduct of the players he was with or the system in Toronto, but there was certainly the expectation that he was more than a 3rd line player.

 

[britdevil]

What are we doing with Butcher in this situation? ¯

I forgot him. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯