Devils 2017-18 team discussion (player news and notes) - Offseason part IX

[NJDevils17]

I think we're more likely to sign Vanek than Jagr. Just a guess but I can see a veteran training camp invite to see how the kids are shaping up.

 

[Edmonton East]

Lol we aren't signing Vanek. Nor would they invite him to camp.

 

[NJDevs26]

God, you guys really love your old slow as molasses players don't you?

No, keep Jagr off the team. So tired of this gotta have older vets on the team mentality from this fan base.

Let the kids play, it is a throw away year for ****'s sake.

As opposed to the all vets are automatically bad mentality? I swear some of you have post-Lou PTSD.

I get it Jagr is probably not a fit for the team system, but the RW depth chart is very murky at best - it's not unreasonable to suggest bringing another guy in. The second-line RW is probably at best one of the vets playing out of position and the third-line RW might be Speers or Quenneville.

 

[MadDevil]

As of now, we have about 7 forwards who are locks to be full time NHL players this year, so I wouldn't be so quick to just poo poo bringing in some vets on PTOs or cheap one year deals.

And one of those 7 is Zacha by the way. So literally half of our forwards are going to be kids unless we bring in somebody else.

 

[AfroThunder396]

I would welcome Jagr back with open arms but that's clearly the polar opposite direction Shero is taking this team.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

As opposed to the all vets are automatically bad mentality? I swear some of you have post-Lou PTSD.

I get it Jagr is probably not a fit for the team system, but the RW depth chart is very murky at best - it's not unreasonable to suggest bringing another guy in. The second-line RW is probably at best one of the vets playing out of position and the third-line RW might be Speers or Quenneville.

It's unreasonable when the veteran you are pining over is a ****ing geriatric in NHL years and the team is trying to get faster, not slower, especially 45 year old Jagr slow.

It's a throw away year. No reason to not see what younger players can do in a top 6 role instead of sliding them down once again to use another stop gap player because OMG young players can't be pushed!!!

As of now, we have about 7 forwards who are locks to be full time NHL players this year, so I wouldn't be so quick to just poo poo bringing in some vets on PTOs or cheap one year deals.

And one of those 7 is Zacha by the way. So literally half of our forwards are going to be kids unless we bring in somebody else.

I'll poo poo all over the idea when people are saying sign a 45 year old.

 

[Bleedred]

inb4 Bleed pointing out that Jagr is too good at puck possession for Hynes to play him

''JAGR? JAROMIR JAGR? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

That guy is old, he's probably slower than me AND the worst problem? He spends too much time in the offensive zone and with the puck in the offensive zone for my liking. I I just had Ray jettison a 25 year old because he did enough of that. And you want us to bring in a 45 year old that does that? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!''

 

[Bleedred]

As far as Jagr goes, he still showed that he can play last year and was pretty good. Whereas guys like Doan and Iginla are probably finished. The problem is that he's at an age where he can just fall off a cliff at any time. I have a feeling that Jagr will never play in the NHL again, simply based on the fact that no GM's will wanna sign him at 45 years old. He turns 46 in February of this season.

If this really is a throwaway year though, I better not have to watch Ben Lovejoy receive more ice time than Damon Severson again, I don't even care if it's just 3 seconds per game. If this is really a throwaway year, Lovejoy shouldn't even be playing more than Santini or Mueller, or at least not by December.

 

[Triumph]

I like Jagr and I think he'd be a good fit with, say, Zacha and Zajac, but that line would have to be basically playing a different game than the rest of the team.

 

[OmNomNom]

jagr is ancient by nhl standards, but he's an athletic freak. You still didn't acknowledge any of the points people brought up, taxman. The man scored well enough for 4th on the Panthers last year, and would have been 3td by those points as well. And what about my point of differing strategies? Does fast fast fast every single moment of every game make sense strategically? You'd be really stupid as a coach to be that predictable. He's not fast, but creating space for fast players and being a solid possession player has it's own merits for fast players as well, you know. It's not like you can only pick one pure strategy

You really do like to **** on everyone's ideas without actually discussing points brought up from a reasonable manner, don't you

 

[Bleedred]

The Panthers only didn't bring Jagr back because they're a ****** and **** poor run organization, just like they have been for the better part of 25 years. It looked like they had a good ownership group, until they went and blew the whole thing up last year and even kicked the GM upstairs. Now he has to fix up the mess, while ownership says they have an internal cap of $65 million.

The best part is they claimed to be all about analytics, yet they played Shawn Thornton 50 games last year, started him in the defensive zone for 57%+ of his starts and they have this fetish for Derek MacKenzie as well.

There are some legitimate concerns about Jagr though. Like could this be the year that he finally drops off?

 

[MadDevil]

I like Jagr and I think he'd be a good fit with, say, Zacha and Zajac, but that line would have to be basically playing a different game than the rest of the team.

The trouble with this is given Zajac is still going to draw the shutdown center role, do we really want Jagr out there with him?

I don't think Jagr would really be interested in coming back anyway. I think he fit well the first time because we played a style of game that wasn't built around speed and DeBoer gave him plenty of minutes. Neither of those are the case anymore, and unless he's fine just being a third liner with some PP time to mentor the kids, I don't really see a fit with us.

Didn't he once say he was going to play a year for the team he owns in the Czech league before he retired from hockey?

 

[Bleedred]

Didn't he once say he was going to play a year for the team he owns in the Czech league before he retired from hockey?

Yup, unless that's changed now.

I think it's possible he plays in the KHL again before he goes back to Czech for the finale, if an NHL team doesn't sign him.

 

[Nubmer6]

I like Jagr and I think he'd be a good fit with, say, Zacha and Zajac, but that line would have to be basically playing a different game than the rest of the team.

Ya know, I always wondered if it's possible for a team to have different systems for different lines. It would make sense to play to the strengths of different players.

You could theoretically have a scoring line with fast players that relied on a heavy forecheck, and another scoring line that was built on power forwards playing more of a cycling game that runs a more passive defense.

I guess you'd have to make 5 man units so the right D is with the right forwards. I dunno. It's just a thought.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Jagr as a special assignment coach would be great but he wants to play.

 

[Billdo]

I don't want Jagr. It was cool the first time around but at this point I'd really rather just move on. I mean he'll turn 46 during the season.

 

[Andre Palot]

Why not Jiri Hudler? I'd also like to take a flyer on Franson for the blueline

 

[captainscott]

As of now, we have about 7 forwards who are locks to be full time NHL players this year, so I wouldn't be so quick to just poo poo bringing in some vets on PTOs or cheap one year deals.

And one of those 7 is Zacha by the way. So literally half of our forwards are going to be kids unless we bring in somebody else.

both arguments have a point.... but i think we pretty much have 12 forwards that have played NHL minutes coming to camp... so its not like they can't fill out 12 foward spots... depth never hurts and with only 6 one way contracts its not outlandish to think another forward may be brought in at least on a tryout

locks:
hall
henrique
zajac
zacha
palms
johansoon
boyle
Noesen ( could argue for more than likely)


more than likelys

hischier
wood
speers
blandisi
JQ

thats 13... and we have not discussed mcleod //bastian// coleman// piettella // so i think we are set at forward... no point in bringing in another guys to just take up space and play 3rd or 4th line... we have plenty already.. again bringing in another brian boyle proven guy may make sense but bringing in another Noesen... type wont make sense.. does that make any sense?

 

[FooteBahl]

both arguments have a point.... but i think we pretty much have 12 forwards that have played NHL minutes coming to camp... so its not like they can't fill out 12 foward spots... depth never hurts and with only 6 one way contracts its not outlandish to think another forward may be brought in at least on a tryout

locks:
hall
henrique
zajac
zacha
palms
johansoon
boyle
Noesen ( could argue for more than likely)


more than likelys

hischier
wood
speers
blandisi
JQ

thats 13... and we have not discussed mcleod //bastian// coleman// piettella // so i think we are set at forward... no point in bringing in another guys to just take up space and play 3rd or 4th line... we have plenty already.. again bringing in another brian boyle proven guy may make sense but bringing in another Noesen... type wont make sense.. does that make any sense?

And if Mikey McLeod has a good camp, you can put him in the more than likely group...for 9 games at least

 

[Zippy316]

It makes little sense to commit a roster spot to any remaining forwards right now.

But given how young our forward group looks, the Devils have to seriously consider inviting some veterans to camp like Vanek, Stafford, or Hudler. You get to see if the kids are ready, if any of the veterans fit into the team, and you're not committed to anything.

If a guy like Vanek looks amazing with one of the kids in pre-season, maybe you commit to him for a year.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

I guarantee Shero will, at the very least, give a PTO to a veteran RW for the bottom-6.

I don't see Quenneville as a lock for RW, Speers looked good in camp last year but then was noticeably overwhelmed, and Noesen could easily go the way of the DSP. We need an insurance policy on those guys.

 

[devilsblood]

As far as Jagr goes, he still showed that he can play last year and was pretty good. Whereas guys like Doan and Iginla are probably finished. The problem is that he's at an age where he can just fall off a cliff at any time. I have a feeling that Jagr will never play in the NHL again, simply based on the fact that no GM's will wanna sign him at 45 years old. He turns 46 in February of this season.

If this really is a throwaway year though, I better not have to watch Ben Lovejoy receive more ice time than Damon Severson again, I don't even care if it's just 3 seconds per game. If this is really a throwaway year, Lovejoy shouldn't even be playing more than Santini or Mueller, or at least not by December.

I think most guys fall off that cliff once they can't skate anymore. And certainly Jagr is not near the player he once was, but he's adapted his game so as to still be effective even without the speed he once had.

So right now how does he fall off the cliff? What part of his game does he lose? I legitmately feel he can effectively play the style that he has played at least until he is 50.

The only problem is teams want to play fast, and despite being very effective, Jagr does not play fast. So like with us, he goes against the direction the NHL is going.

 

[Classic Devil]

Ya know, I always wondered if it's possible for a team to have different systems for different lines. It would make sense to play to the strengths of different players.

You could theoretically have a scoring line with fast players that relied on a heavy forecheck, and another scoring line that was built on power forwards playing more of a cycling game that runs a more passive defense.

I guess you'd have to make 5 man units so the right D is with the right forwards. I dunno. It's just a thought.

Injuries would make this very difficult to pull off.

 

[OmNomNom]

Injuries would make this very difficult to pull off.

unless you have a mixed bag of prospects/bench players who can pivot for diff roles

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

unless you have a mixed bag of prospects/bench players who can pivot for diff roles

It just seems like a very disjointed way to run a team.

Especially when we'll be so youth-heavy next year. We don't really know what these guys are in the NHL today, let alone what they'll be after a year or two of NHL exposure. Trying to figure out then juggle "niche lines" just adds more uncertainty to the mix.