Detroit Redwings Downfall

[Dotter]

Wings struggling again tonight. A loss puts them a lot behind Boston. The wild card is starting to move further away too. They need to get going with some wins. Or they will be sellers at the coming TDL. Sens looking like the one team from that bottom four (in their division) who might make a move.

The fact that Yzerman didn't fire the coach after the California road trip means he's tanking the season. Wings have a lame duck coach who lost the team.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

'' yzermans playing for all the marbles as in attempting to build a dynasty''
- do you understand the definition of the word ATTEMPTING ?????????
- or the blatant obvious fact that yzerman had nothing to do with the playoff streak ? and that its assinine to see that getting back in the playoffs as quickly as possible is more important than building a long term contender ?????????
- let me answer those questions = no you dont , you dont understand any of it

Ooh this is a parody account, my apologies. Well done

 

[NailsHoglander]

Yzerman is one desperate offseason away from going full Benning

Never go full Benning

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

The fact that Yzerman didn't fire the coach after the California road trip means he's tanking the season. Wings have a lame duck coach who lost the team.

So why not make a move and hope it lights a spark under them?

The Blues don't have anything special in their lineup and had a record nearly identical to Detroit's; they went 4-0-1 before tonight after hiring Montgomery.

5 game losing streak

6 wins in the last 20 games

No trades, no coaches fired, nobody waived, nobody called up

Go wings go baby! What a team we have!

Trust the Yzerplan!!!

ive another version of delusional = joe smo hockey fans thinking they know more about running an nhl club than steve yzerman = lmao

Oh look, it's this lazy argument again.

"Oh you think you know more than Yzerman?!??"

Uh, no, nobody said that. But he's made several terrible decisions, and the team he's responsible for putting in the best position to succeed doesn't appear any closer to the playoffs in year six on the job, which means he's open to criticism from his team's paying customers. Do you see how that works?

He's not some infallible deity who is beyond reproach. It doesn't make you any less of a Red Wings fan to say that Yzerman's results have been disappointing.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

Ooh this is a parody account, my apologies. Well done

Either that or he's still one of the decreasing numbers of Red Wings fans who would still be bleating "Trust the Yzerplan!" if Detroit still wasn't in the playoffs by 2026.

There are still way too many of those who think that anything less than 100% worship and blind trust in Yzerman means their Red Wings fan card is revoked.

 

[deca guard]

So why not make a move and hope it lights a spark under them?

The Blues don't have anything special in their lineup and had a record nearly identical to Detroit's; they went 4-0-1 before tonight after hiring Montgomery.



Trust the Yzerplan!!!



Oh look, it's this lazy argument again.

"Oh you think you know more than Yzerman?!??"

Uh, no, nobody said that. But he's made several terrible decisions, and the team he's responsible for putting in the best position to succeed doesn't appear any closer to the playoffs in year six on the job, which means he's open to criticism from his team's paying customers. Do you see how that works?

He's not some infallible deity who is beyond reproach. It doesn't make you any less of a Red Wings fan to say that Yzerman's results have been disappointing.

do you understand english ? the way the draft works and how gigantically important it is to a teams success puts gms into positions where they dont want to get just good enough to make playoffs propelling selves further away from better players earlier in draft . jumping the gun like whiny fans cry for does nothing but make a team mediocre longer because they are only able to draft lesser players . yzerman damn well knew these average ufa he signed wouldnt lead to great success , but he had to keep the team at this level in order to load up on better prospects til the season comes where he goes all out . but ego trippers want to announce how smart they are by criticizing a top gun gm like yzerman when you dont know what your talking about ! what if yzerman hadnt signed copp , jt , chariot the past several years instead signing better players to longer term n higher cap hits ? for one it would have made the wings better but not contenders , ending up giving fans a little fun but at the cost of draft position thusly making teams long term destiny lesser . and the cap hits to better ufa would have cost future cap space needed to sign guys like seider n raymond . and with lesser prospects on board the long term futures lesser for the sake of getting into the playoffs only to get crushed . just because the league doesnt allow gms and media (puppets of the league) to talk about this matter doesnt mean that it isnt the reality of the situation . but keep schooling me you got it all figured out

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

do you understand english ? the way the draft works and how gigantically important it is to a teams success puts gms into positions where they dont want to get just good enough to make playoffs propelling selves further away from better players earlier in draft . jumping the gun like whiny fans cry for does nothing but make a team mediocre longer because they are only able to draft lesser players . yzerman damn well knew these average ufa he signed wouldnt lead to great success , but he had to keep the team at this level in order to load up on better prospects til the season comes where he goes all out . but ego trippers want to announce how smart they are by criticizing a top gun gm like yzerman when you dont know what your talking about ! what if yzerman hadnt signed copp , jt , chariot the past several years instead signing better players to longer term n higher cap hits ? for one it would have made the wings better but not contenders , ending up giving fans a little fun but at the cost of draft position thusly making teams long term destiny lesser . and the cap hits to better ufa would have cost future cap space needed to sign guys like seider n raymond . and with lesser prospects on board the long term futures lesser for the sake of getting into the playoffs only to get crushed . just because the league doesnt allow gms and media (puppets of the league) to talk about this matter doesnt mean that it isnt the reality of the situation . but keep schooling me you got it all figured out

Not reading that incoherent, sloppy mess.

Enter/return button - do you not know what that is?

 

[Dotter]

So why not make a move and hope it lights a spark under them?

The Blues don't have anything special in their lineup and had a record nearly identical to Detroit's; they went 4-0-1 before tonight after hiring Montgomery.

My guess is he doesn't see a team here that will do anything in the playoffs anyhow and has an eye on a top 10 player in the draft. Who knows...

My guess it has to do with tanking reasons.

 

[Dotter]

Either that or he's still one of the decreasing numbers of Red Wings fans who would still be bleating "Trust the Yzerplan!" if Detroit still wasn't in the playoffs by 2026.

There are still way too many of those who think that anything less than 100% worship and blind trust in Yzerman means their Red Wings fan card is revoked.

2026/2027 appears to be the line drawn in the sand, that is when all the placeholder contracts end. If you look at the rebuild objectively you can see there is a clear path and looks like it being executed nicely.

Yzerman just needs a few of ASP, Buchelnikov, Lombardi, Danielsson, Cossa, MBN to pan out and be real difference makers. If all those kids bust then I will start evaluating why.

So far many of those kids look really, really good in their respective development leagues!

 

[WarriorofTime]

2026/2027 appears to be the line drawn in the sand, that is when all the placeholder contracts end. If you look at the rebuild objectively you can see there is a clear path and looks like it being executed nicely.

If the timeline is 2026/27 to just make the playoffs or semi-compete why even bother with the placeholder contracts and not just improve draft position? Is there no possibility for you that some things just didn’t work out as planned?

 

[Dotter]

If the timeline is 2026/27 to just make the playoffs or semi-compete why even bother with the placeholder contracts and not just improve draft position? Is there no possibility for you that some things just didn’t work out as planned?

Just to make the playoffs. Kids don't enter the NHL and dominate. There will be growing pains.

I don't know if things went wrong, they are still rebuilding. How do you know until the product is on the ice? The product on the ice today is nowhere near what the product will be in 2027.

You of all people should know what it takes to win. Look at your 2015 cup champion Hawks. The top scorer had 28 goals and 66 points. They won being PIA to play against and depth. And that top pairing was the best or one of the best in the league; Keith/Seabrook... and the 2nd pair was really goooood.

Blackhawks won with depth and and amazing defense. Kane was a PPG, Toews had 66 points. Blackhawks had zero 30 goal scorers that season.

And I never thought Crawford was an amazing goalie. He didn't need to be a star, he just had to make timely saves.

 

[StreetHawk]

If the timeline is 2026/27 to just make the playoffs or semi-compete why even bother with the placeholder contracts and not just improve draft position? Is there no possibility for you that some things just didn’t work out as planned?

If your team is consistently in the bottom 3-4 in the NHL, is that the best environement to develop your key youngsters in?
Ana has been out of the PO for 6 seasons now, and trending to be #7.
SJ has missed since 2020, so up to 5 seasons and trending to be #6
Chi made the "2020" play in (at 70 games, were 9th worst in both points and points%. 7 points in back of 8th place). Officially missed since 2021, which would only be 4 seasons and trending to be #5. But, without the play in, they missed since 2018. That would be 7 years going on 8.
Det, Yzerman took over in 2019 draft, so he's been in charge the past 5 years going on 6. Wings as an organization is at 8 going on 9 years now.

Van, missed the PO from 2016-2023 with a play-in in 2020 to break that up. They were right on the WC line, just in the WC on PTS% and a point behind in pts. That would be an 8 year miss without the play-in.

Looking at those timelines, that's kind of why GMS and owners do not want to do a "firesale" type selloff of their better players even if they are no longer contenders. That is a whole lot of years of pain to suffer through.

 

[VeteranPresence]

Just to make the playoffs. Kids don't enter the NHL and dominate. There will be growing pains.

I don't know if things went wrong, they are still rebuilding. How do you know until the product is on the ice? The product on the ice today is nowhere near what the product will be in 2027.

You of all people should know what it takes to win. Look at your 2015 cup champion Hawks. The top scorer had 28 goals and 66 points. They won being PIA to play against and depth. And that top pairing was the best or one of the best in the league; Keith/Seabrook... and the 2nd pair was really goooood.

Blackhawks won with depth and and amazing defense. Kane was a PPG, Toews had 66 points. Blackhawks had zero 30 goal scorers that season.

And I never thought Crawford was an amazing goalie. He didn't need to be a star, he just had to make timely saves.

Here we go, the Red Wings are now the dynasty Blackhawks reincarnate. Meanwhile in reality…

Really says something that San Jose’s rebuild is going faster than Yzerman’s.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Here we go, the Red Wings are now the dynasty Blackhawks reincarnate. Meanwhile in reality…

View attachment 941886

Really says something that San Jose’s rebuild is going faster than Yzerman’s.

If you want your record to go fast you need to hire David Quinn for a year or two

 

[WarriorofTime]

Just to make the playoffs. Kids don't enter the NHL and dominate. There will be growing pains.

I don't know if things went wrong, they are still rebuilding. How do you know until the product is on the ice? The product on the ice today is nowhere near what the product will be in 2027.

You of all people should know what it takes to win. Look at your 2015 cup champion Hawks. The top scorer had 28 goals and 66 points. They won being PIA to play against and depth. And that top pairing was the best or one of the best in the league; Keith/Seabrook... and the 2nd pair was really goooood.

Blackhawks won with depth and and amazing defense. Kane was a PPG, Toews had 66 points. Blackhawks had zero 30 goal scorers that season.

And I never thought Crawford was an amazing goalie. He didn't need to be a star, he just had to make timely saves.

League was a lot lower scoring in 2014-15. Patrick Kane's 64 points in 61 games was leading the NHL at the time of his injury.

As far as comparing this era Detroit to that era of Chicago, ought to recognize that from 2008-09 through 2016-17 which I'll call Chicago's extended "window", Kane was 3rd in aggregate scoring, Toews was 16th in aggregate scoring (13th in aggregate goals) while being a well regarded "2-way" guy (8x he was Top 6 in Selke Votes). Hawks had to be in a spot to draft those two guys 1st and 3rd overall, which really speaks to reality of the value of drafting very high to get top-end talent.

 

[Czechboy]

Here we go, the Red Wings are now the dynasty Blackhawks reincarnate. Meanwhile in reality…

View attachment 941886

Really says something that San Jose’s rebuild is going faster than Yzerman’s.

Doing way too much to get that lottery pick. Need to get worse IMO. Go right for the basement. This season is over and a 5th pick won't solve the problem. Need that lottery luck! It is the only way to acquire good players according to many on here.

FWIW - I like the Chicago, Ana and SJ rebuilds a lot more than Montreal and Detroit.

 

[Dotter]

FWIW - I like the Chicago, Ana and SJ rebuilds a lot more than motreal and Detroit.

You like those three teams because they had lottery luck. Wings had no lottery luck, they were in fact the most unlucky team in the league.

That said Yzerman still, against all against him, scored top 2 and top 3 talent; Seider and Raymond. Edvinsson might prove to be something amazing in a redraft in the near future. Too early to predict.

That's amazing drafting!

 

[Dotter]

League was a lot lower scoring in 2014-15. Patrick Kane's 64 points in 61 games was leading the NHL at the time of his injury.

As far as comparing this era Detroit to that era of Chicago, ought to recognize that from 2008-09 through 2016-17 which I'll call Chicago's extended "window", Kane was 3rd in aggregate scoring, Toews was 16th in aggregate scoring (13th in aggregate goals) while being a well regarded "2-way" guy (8x he was Top 6 in Selke Votes). Hawks had to be in a spot to draft those two guys 1st and 3rd overall, which really speaks to reality of the value of drafting very high to get top-end talent.

Your point might as well be "league is always changing", and Yzerman might be building a team that competes in the next upcoming era. He's selecting and building a certain kind of team in mind. Not a fast high octane soft team, but a big PIA in your face and "we will smear everyone on you team" while shutting you down.

Or maybe once phase one is complete, he will start drafting small fast skilled forwards who can score... since they develop easier and faster. Perhaps drafting tough defense, 2-way forwards and goalies was phase one. Just adding a Brayden Points few Tyler Johnson's and a few Gourde's come later since they easier to acquire and develop.

I guess this might be a good judge if Yzerman is 3 steps ahead of everyone else.

 

[cvaicunas]

Here we go, the Red Wings are now the dynasty Blackhawks reincarnate. Meanwhile in reality…

View attachment 941886

Really says something that San Jose’s rebuild is going faster than Yzerman’s.

I mean we're kind of chasing the Hawks. If you just invert that pesky standings list it looks like 1st overall. See a little perspective and sarcasm hides all problems.

 

[Dr Quincy]

You know players have a million reasons as to why they would or would not chose a spot, right?

The fact is you’re just making up all these good players the Wings could have signed.

Right... except I haven't made up a single player.

But sure, I totally agree with you. There's zero reason why any good player in the NHL would want to sign up for Yzerman's failed rebuild.

Happy now?

 

[wmupreds]

do you understand english ? the way the draft works and how gigantically important it is to a teams success puts gms into positions where they dont want to get just good enough to make playoffs propelling selves further away from better players earlier in draft . jumping the gun like whiny fans cry for does nothing but make a team mediocre longer because they are only able to draft lesser players . yzerman damn well knew these average ufa he signed wouldnt lead to great success , but he had to keep the team at this level in order to load up on better prospects til the season comes where he goes all out . but ego trippers want to announce how smart they are by criticizing a top gun gm like yzerman when you dont know what your talking about ! what if yzerman hadnt signed copp , jt , chariot the past several years instead signing better players to longer term n higher cap hits ? for one it would have made the wings better but not contenders , ending up giving fans a little fun but at the cost of draft position thusly making teams long term destiny lesser . and the cap hits to better ufa would have cost future cap space needed to sign guys like seider n raymond . and with lesser prospects on board the long term futures lesser for the sake of getting into the playoffs only to get crushed . just because the league doesnt allow gms and media (puppets of the league) to talk about this matter doesnt mean that it isnt the reality of the situation . but keep schooling me you got it all figured out

Claiming Yzerman made those signings to intentionally keep the Red Wings bad is just an insane take. And if he's been trying to suck for higher picks he's done a pretty piss poor job of that too.

 

[Oneiro]

I get the Blackhawks comparison.

They are in the same situation as Chicago pre-Toews and Kane. A lot of solid to great complementary guys in the pool and on the NHL roster, two franchise D, decent enough goalie. They just need a great center and another great elite scoring wing.

Detroit has had very bad lottery luck, think the SJ comparison is unfair. A Celebrini or Bedard would be quite the difference in a lot of the games they've lost.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Then feel free to enlighten me. Because when I see Danielson, I see a smart, responsible center, with good skating and puckhandling, but average-sized and not much of a goal-scoring threat. That doesn't really add up to having NHL 1st-line upside.

I mean you basically describe a prospect without any true flaws except for maybe the goal-scoring being a little lacking.

Idk. I'm not personally writing down Danielson's name as a future 1st line center. But I'm at least writing him in as a center, something that can't be said for a ton of guys drafted after him.

Detroit doesn’t have a single franchise forward in their roster, how many legit elite A tier forward prospects do they have?

Can you first define "franchise forward" and "A tier forward prospect"? And stick with those definitions?

Because there's no point if it's just your opinion from case to case which players count. Which it likely is, considering you don't view Larkin and Raymond as franchise forwards.

 

[Hallonbroder]

I mean you basically describe a prospect without any true flaws except for maybe the goal-scoring being a little lacking.

Idk. I'm not personally writing down Danielson's name as a future 1st line center. But I'm at least writing him in as a center, something that can't be said for a ton of guys drafted after him.

Can you first define "franchise forward" and "A tier forward prospect"? And stick with those definitions?

Because there's no point if it's just your opinion from case to case which players count. Which it likely is, considering you don't view Larkin and Raymond as franchise forwards.

Wait, do you consider Larkin a franchise forward in Detroit??

 

[Pavels Dog]

Wait, do you consider Larkin a franchise forward in Detroit??

Again, meaningless to discuss unless you define what you mean by franchise forward. Because yes, traditionally franchise player is basically exactly what Larkin is to Detroit. Your own definition may be something different however.