Proposal: Detroit is changing players?

[lucaseider]

Would you trade Sieder for Zegras?

I slept on it, I dont think I would, but only because we could get really lucky with simon and seider. The way simon is developing its very appealing to think of either him or seider on the ice almost all the time.

 

[lucaseider]

I wouldn’t trade Byram for Zegras either. But he’s one of the few same aged forwards (C) I’d think about it for. Raymond is another.

Byram has played and looked like an absolute star in the making for the Avs this season. Sieder is also promising. 2019 looking like a great draft for the Avs and Red wings. Great for Anaheim too.

0.00% chance I’d consider Dach, Cozens or Kakko for Byram. And Turcotte? lol.

ya, you guys are looking real nice with byram and makar, 2 stud dmen.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

I'm late to the party but no way did it take bern a handful of posts to come in and offer his typical junk of Strome, Hajek, etc. for Seider

 

[McJedi]

I'm late to the party but no way did it take bern a handful of posts to come in and offer his typical junk of Strome, Hajek, etc. for Seider

And the elite bust that is Kratsov.

 

[Ice Mammoth]

Tyler Bertuzzi: AAV $1,187,500; UFA 2023 (DET @50% ret + ??? @50% ret) (Canada???).

Or - Jakub Vrána: AAV $1,312,500; UFA 2024; (IR); (DET @50% ret + ??? @50% ret).

Or - Filip Hronek: AAV $1,100,000; RFA 2024 (DET @50% ret + ??? @50% ret).

Detroit may include in the deal: Thomas Greiss, Nick Leddy, Danny Dekeyser, Troy Stecher, Marc Staal, Vladislav Namestnikov, Pius Suter, Robby Fabbri.

For (C, ELC)
Florida Panthers - Anton Lundell
Colorado Avalanche - Alex Newhook
Washington Capitals - Connor Mcmichael or Hendrix Lapierre.
Los Angeles Kings - Alex Turcotte
Carolina Hurricanes - Ryan Suzuki
Minnesota Wild - Marco Rossi
Calgary Flames - Connor Zary
Winnipeg Jets - Cole Perfetti

The cost of all players is different. This is a deal template (50%). There will be additives on both sides.
Only the mandatory part of the transaction is shown.
Excluding the real cost of hockey players.

What deal is possible? What's the rest of the deal?
What other players are available (with similar potential)?

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Tyler Bertuzzi: AAV $1,187,500; UFA 2023 (DET @50% ret + ??? @50% ret) (Canada???).

Or - Jakub Vrána: AAV $1,312,500; UFA 2024; (IR); (DET @50% ret + ??? @50% ret).

Or - Filip Hronek: AAV $1,100,000; RFA 2024 (DET @50% ret + ??? @50% ret).

Detroit may include in the deal: Thomas Greiss, Nick Leddy, Danny Dekeyser, Troy Stecher, Marc Staal, Vladislav Namestnikov, Pius Suter, Robby Fabbri.

For (C, ELC)
Florida Panthers - Anton Lundell
Colorado Avalanche - Alex Newhook
Washington Capitals - Connor Mcmichael or Hendrix Lapierre.
Los Angeles Kings - Alex Turcotte
Carolina Hurricanes - Ryan Suzuki
Minnesota Wild - Marco Rossi
Calgary Flames - Connor Zary
Winnipeg Jets - Cole Perfetti

The cost of all players is different. This is a deal template (50%). There will be additives on both sides.
Only the mandatory part of the transaction is shown.
Excluding the real cost of hockey players.

What deal is possible? What's the rest of the deal?
What other players are available (with similar potential)?

Other than Suzuki you just listed arguably the top prospects for each of those teams and I doubt any of said teams are going to want to move any of them unless it's in a package for a star.

 

[archimet]

The same reason they traded Mantha last year and the same reason the Canucks would be wise to flip Miller. The Wings should be cashing in on the play of Tyler Bertuzzi this year. He's 26 now and in another year and he'll be a UFA. What are the odds his prime years fall in like with Detroit's competitive years?

They should be willing to listen on anyone not named Larkin, Raymond, Seider or Cossa.

Add Edvinsson.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Would you trade Sieder for Zegras?

I don't think I trade Seider at all. He's a top 20-25 defenseman in the league in his rookie season. I think as early as next season we could be talking about him as a top 10 defenseman in the league. Zegras right now is not a top 25 center, and I think it's not likely he becomes a top 10 center as well.

 

[archimet]

Your assessment is objectively erroneous x 2.
All but the two least pieces tendered are quality.
And krav is not a bust.
You have it butt backwards.

ONCE he gets a LEGIT chance to play top level meaningful mins, THEN THEN THEN we can assess him as yeah or nay.

He did not get that chance.
Qunn and Drury actively surpressed his chances, for whatev reason.

Maybe Quinn and Drury actually had a good reason. We'll probably never know. Maybe Quinn, Drury and the coaching staff think he did have a legit chance to play, but failed to make the team. Maybe their hockey assessment is that he isn't good enough for the team. Maybe their assessment is he wouldn't be good for the team. The only thing we know for certain is Kravtsov has played in 20 NHL games, the fewest of any of the top 14 picks in his draft. He has scored 2 goals with 2 assists. He may be a star one day. Or, he may be a bust. Only time will tell.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

I will repeat my question - “Who can be traded from Detroit? How much compensation can Detroit get? Make your offer“.

If you spent less time writing unintelligible dissertations and more time reading replies, you'd see that I answered your question... Way back on post #4.

 

[bernmeister]

Let me try this, it's fun.

6OA Zadina + Hronek + LD Wallinder (who can play either side and is well regarded but as Edvinsson lite is gonna get traded eventually) + Bertuzzi retained + Ned + McIsaac + two 2022 4ths (COL+VGK)

for

Adam Fox + NYR 2023 3rd

Deal?

If roles were truly reversed and DET was really like NYR and did not need to upgrade overall roster, and not withstanding you are also ignoring Fox would never play anywhere else other than Rangers, it is something that should at least entertain discussion.

But you elect to ignore pertinent facts as to how things are...

i know you live in a fantasy world. just for the rest of us:

edmonton wasn't willing to go there. you had an agreement from ONE edmonton fan here on hfboards.

Not too much revisionist history pls
I saw that Broberg had size and speed and projected he would be good.
I was willing to fair->overpay while he was green/raw.
There were like a dozen variations on that theme, incl w/Buch, w'o Buch, taking cap dump, not taking cap dump, assets from both sides coming and going.

Had an agreement w/one guy for 1 specific deal.
Others had some interest in some variation of something.

Then the picture entirely changed b'c Klef got career injured, so at that pt he was worth more kept than what he returned.

Rangers also added signif D.

Final straw is it is believed that Oil would have gone there had Rangers not been so effin greedy and self rented Buch. Should have realized last yr was a development yr, not taken a misguided effort to go for playoffs, and had Buch been sold [particularly early] last yr when there was term and Oil could have used him justifying paying to acquire, that woud have been enough.

There is nothing official b'c you don't tamper and officially release statements about players under contract to other clubs.

We are not good trade partners b'c what each wants from the other is unavailable/unavailable at acceptable cost.

This exercise in hypothetical value is not something peeps need to get worked up over.

And the elite bust that is Kratsov.

Krav is not a bust.
Your effort to control that narrative with false assertion is rejected.

Maybe Quinn and Drury actually had a good reason. We'll probably never know. Maybe Quinn, Drury and the coaching staff think he did have a legit chance to play, but failed to make the team. Maybe their hockey assessment is that he isn't good enough for the team. Maybe their assessment is he wouldn't be good for the team. The only thing we know for certain is Kravtsov has played in 20 NHL games, the fewest of any of the top 14 picks in his draft. He has scored 2 goals with 2 assists. He may be a star one day. Or, he may be a bust. Only time will tell.

We can agree time will tell.
Your maybes are fine as conjecture, but you selectively overlook the eye test, which says based on camp he made the team.

He only did not b'c Drury failed to move Hajek and Strome earlier and there was no additional room.

It is NOT a matter of some one unqualified being told no.
It is a matter of a qualified player being told to take it for poliitcal reasons prob from Drury, they wanted to break him.

The kid is not as pure as the driven snow, but in this instance I view him as less to blame than NY mgmt, which should have handled this better, if for no other reason than the overall interests of the team.

 

[McJedi]

If roles were truly reversed and DET was really like NYR and did not need to upgrade overall roster, and not withstanding you are also ignoring Fox would never play anywhere else other than Rangers, it is something that should at least entertain discussion.

But you elect to ignore pertinent facts as to how things are...




Not too much revisionist history pls
I saw that Broberg had size and speed and projected he would be good.
I was willing to fair->overpay while he was green/raw.
There were like a dozen variations on that theme, incl w/Buch, w'o Buch, taking cap dump, not taking cap dump, assets from both sides coming and going.

Had an agreement w/one guy for 1 specific deal.
Others had some interest in some variation of something.

Then the picture entirely changed b'c Klef got career injured, so at that pt he was worth more kept than what he returned.

Rangers also added signif D.

Final straw is it is believed that Oil would have gone there had Rangers not been so effin greedy and self rented Buch. Should have realized last yr was a development yr, not taken a misguided effort to go for playoffs, and had Buch been sold [particularly early] last yr when there was term and Oil could have used him justifying paying to acquire, that woud have been enough.

There is nothing official b'c you don't tamper and officially release statements about players under contract to other clubs.

We are not good trade partners b'c what each wants from the other is unavailable/unavailable at acceptable cost.

This exercise in hypothetical value is not something peeps need to get worked up over.



Krav is not a bust.
Your effort to control that narrative with false assertion is rejected.



We can agree time will tell.
Your maybes are fine as conjecture, but you selectively overlook the eye test, which says based on camp he made the team.

He only did not b'c Drury failed to move Hajek and Strome earlier and there was no additional room.

It is NOT a matter of some one unqualified being told no.
It is a matter of a qualified player being told to take it for poliitcal reasons prob from Drury, they wanted to break him.

The kid is not as pure as the driven snow, but in this instance I view him as less to blame than NY mgmt, which should have handled this better, if for no other reason than the overall interests of the team.

He’s Lias Anderson part two. Total bust for NYR.

 

[bernmeister]

He’s Lias Anderson part two. Total bust for NYR.

You can say that all you want.
Doesn't make it true.

Again, Andersson actually had legit shots w/Kreider, Zib etc
for decent amount of time.
Eye test says he is no talent, a motor only, a complete overreach in a wk draft.

Kravtsov did not have such opportunity.
20 games with an injury riddled shit show of a team, almost entirely w/4th liners, is not a legit chance.

When he gets the chance, we will compare apples to apples and take it from there.

In the meantime, bern, who correctly assessed Gauthier was worth keeping and called the line of LaF - Chytil - Gauthier a year ago, says Krav is NOT a bust -- just someone who needs a legit chance and not to get jerked around.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Tyler Bertuzzi: AAV $1,187,500; UFA 2023 (DET @50% ret + ??? @50% ret) (Canada???).

Or - Jakub Vrána: AAV $1,312,500; UFA 2024; (IR); (DET @50% ret + ??? @50% ret).

Or - Filip Hronek: AAV $1,100,000; RFA 2024 (DET @50% ret + ??? @50% ret).

Detroit may include in the deal: Thomas Greiss, Nick Leddy, Danny Dekeyser, Troy Stecher, Marc Staal, Vladislav Namestnikov, Pius Suter, Robby Fabbri.

For (C, ELC)
Florida Panthers - Anton Lundell
Colorado Avalanche - Alex Newhook
Washington Capitals - Connor Mcmichael or Hendrix Lapierre.
Los Angeles Kings - Alex Turcotte
Carolina Hurricanes - Ryan Suzuki
Minnesota Wild - Marco Rossi
Calgary Flames - Connor Zary
Winnipeg Jets - Cole Perfetti

The cost of all players is different. This is a deal template (50%). There will be additives on both sides.
Only the mandatory part of the transaction is shown.
Excluding the real cost of hockey players.

What deal is possible? What's the rest of the deal?
What other players are available (with similar potential)?

Only way Jets are trading Perfetti is for Seider. But we will trade Copp for Lucas because apparently that’s how it works.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Only way Jets are trading Perfetti is for Seider.

They adding Chevy's first born?

 

[Adam da bomb]

They adding Chevy's first born?

I’m not the one inquiring but ya no team is trading their top prospect for Varna like Ice mammoth thinks is happening. Luckily no one is making threads like this from Jets which are ridiculously bad.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

I’m not the one inquiring but ya no team is trading their top prospect for Varna like Ice mammoth thinks is happening. Luckily no one is making threads like this from Jets which are ridiculously bad.

Well, we're not disagreeing that his logic is absurd. But it seemed like the implication was Perfetti is better than anybody but Seider, when he'd realistically be #4 or #5 in Detroit's pool. And that's not a criticism of his ability.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Well, we're not disagreeing that his logic is absurd. But it seemed like the implication was Perfetti is better than anybody but Seider, when he'd realistically be #4 or #5 in Detroit's pool.

That’s fine, I’d put him 3rd behind Raymond and Seider, but the implication is we don’t want to trade him unless it’s for a huge overpayment. Raymond and Seider are incredible and I wouldn’t think Detroit would make the trade. I definitely wouldn’t post it but to think we are trading him for Vrana is mind boggling.

 

[Ice Mammoth]

If you spent less time writing unintelligible dissertations and more time reading replies, you'd see that I answered your question... Way back on post #4.

I read your comment # 4 a long time ago. I try to carefully read all the comments in the topic I start. I reread your comment again.
This is your opinion. You have every right to it.
I disagree with you in many ways. It's my opinion. I have every right to him.
I will quote your comment #4 – “So in all likelihood, the only selling Detroit will be doing is Fabbri, Namestnikov, Greiss and maybe Leddy”.
I wrote the names of these players in my comment #1
“…Group 4 - Thomas Greiss, Nick Leddy, Danny Dekeyser, Troy Stecher, Marc Staal, Vladislav Namestnikov, Pius Suter, Robby Fabbri.“
I will repeat my question - “Who can be traded from Detroit? How much compensation can Detroit get? Make your offer“.
I have asked you about this several times. You only answered the first question.
We are discussing the NHL. It's perfectly okay to make your suggestions.
Make your offer to exchange four players: Fabbri, Namestnikov, Greiss, Leddy.
I'll edit my question - “…How much compensation can Detroit get? Make your offer“.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

That’s fine, I’d put him 3rd behind Raymond and Seider, but the implication is we don’t want to trade him unless it’s for a huge overpayment.

Understandable. I'd have him under Edvinsson. The leeway for #5 is because Cossa is unreal, but goalies are so wishy washy it's hard to compare them to skaters. They could be great one day and trash the next.

But yeah, we definitely agree on the logic of the OP. I don't think any of those teams consider trading the prospects he listed except maybe LA with Turcotte. They're deep down the middle and Turcotte hasn't exactly set the world on fire.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Tyler Bertuzzi: AAV $1,187,500; UFA 2023 (DET @50% ret + ??? @50% ret) (Canada???).

Or - Jakub Vrána: AAV $1,312,500; UFA 2024; (IR); (DET @50% ret + ??? @50% ret).

Or - Filip Hronek: AAV $1,100,000; RFA 2024 (DET @50% ret + ??? @50% ret).

Detroit may include in the deal: Thomas Greiss, Nick Leddy, Danny Dekeyser, Troy Stecher, Marc Staal, Vladislav Namestnikov, Pius Suter, Robby Fabbri.

For (C, ELC)
Florida Panthers - Anton Lundell
Colorado Avalanche - Alex Newhook
Washington Capitals - Connor Mcmichael or Hendrix Lapierre.
Los Angeles Kings - Alex Turcotte
Carolina Hurricanes - Ryan Suzuki
Minnesota Wild - Marco Rossi
Calgary Flames - Connor Zary
Winnipeg Jets - Cole Perfetti

The cost of all players is different. This is a deal template (50%). There will be additives on both sides.
Only the mandatory part of the transaction is shown.
Excluding the real cost of hockey players.

What deal is possible? What's the rest of the deal?
What other players are available (with similar potential)?

I don't think you understand what AAV is.

But sum this one up... those teams are not going to trade those players to us for anything shy of us dealing a similarly aged and pedigreed player.

To get one of those guys, you're giving up Seider or Edvinsson or Raymond and those are all a no from Detroit.

Teams don't trade talented RFAs for quantity who don't also have some kind of disqualifying characteristic about them (Kravstov's attitude, Fox refusing to play anywhere but NYR, Anthony DeAngelo being a gigantic jackass, Nolan Patrick being one very large concussion in the shape of a hockey player, etc). If you have a player like any of those guys, you let them grow and give them a chance in your system first because you drafted them and have them for cheap.

You can swing a deal if you're overloaded at D and need a C or vice versa (a la Seth Jones for Ryan Johansen), but the quantity trades for the guys like Anton Lundell just don't happen.

For all of the players you listed, Detroit's assets that you're putting out there as available have damn near no value.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Honestly, I don't think I'd trade Bertuzzi for any of those guys outside Lundell, but I also heavily value Bertuzzi's ability to energize the team and change the momentum of the game. That's a rare intangible for somebody at his skill level.

But with Bertuzzi's vaccine status, none of those teams would probably be willing to part with those prospects for him.

 

[Ice Mammoth]

I’m not the one inquiring but ya no team is trading their top prospect for Varna like Ice mammoth thinks is happening. Luckily no one is making threads like this from Jets which are ridiculously bad.

Did you read my comment? I'll quote myself -
“The cost is different for all players. This is a deal template (50%). There will be additives on both sides.
Only the required part of the transaction is shown.
Excluding the real cost of hockey players. "
Winnipeg is an unlikely deal partner. For such an exchange to take place, the team must go all-in. This is unlikely, but possible.

 

[BinCookin]

This entire thread is a massive Troll job not at all related to the OP.

Want a real summary of what Yzerman is likely thinking:
For Sale at Deadline: Leddy, Greiss. (Several other guys no one cares about)

Players not for sale (for rental prices): All of our age 24-26 players. That would only be in a hockey deal.

What do I think will happen?
Goalie markets are always weak, so we would be lucky to get a 3rd pick for Greiss.

Leddy is the only quality name that has 1st or 2nd round value as a rental. Also I am not confident Yzerman will even sell him.

Bottom line is we really do not have many assets that are all that attractive.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Did you read my comment? I'll quote myself -
“The cost is different for all players. This is a deal template (50%). There will be additives on both sides.
Only the required part of the transaction is shown.
Excluding the real cost of hockey players. "
Winnipeg is an unlikely deal partner. For such an exchange to take place, the team must go all-in. This is unlikely, but possible.

Yep. Don’t know why you even included the jets. There is nothing there if jets are going all in that makes it worth doing. Even with some of your untouchables. Larkin, why do we need Larkin when we have pld and schief. Cossa? We view Helly as a venzina level goalie. Raymond or Seider, sure but Detroit would never.