Proposal: Detroit is changing players?

[WingsMJN2965]

Pius Suter in Edmonton = great Stanley Cup odds.
3C or 2C?
Maybe the chances of the cup are more important to the player.
Maybe there is an agreement on this.
Pius Suter = no NMC, NTC, M-NTC.

What is the financial situation in Edmonton?
See my comment on this page # 68.

If the chance was more important he probably wouldn't have signed in Detroit...

www.capfriendly.com Not that hard to find.

 

[TBF1972]

Strome is transitional, goes for a 1st unless you prefer to keep and he goes there.

I remember the time you were offering Buch for a top 10-15 pick.

Maybe your 'objective' valuations are way off.

 

[lucaseider]

only way I even consider trading seider is for an equal center of the same age, even then I dont probably do. Not trading for a bunch of lesser "good" pieces.

 

[bernmeister]

No, I’m saying our guy is untouchable. I wouldn’t jealously hold onto him if someone did something earthshatteringly stupid.

I knew that would be the response though.

Difference is I know Seider isn’t remotely worth Draisaitl at current. You actually think that your offer is excess value coming from NY for some reason.

The point of my post is that it would take something monumentally stupid from the other side to move a player, not something that even if you could get someone to agree that it is more value it doesn’t make sense

I think we can be civil here if we are honest.

I have made the factual assertion that Krav's value, initially ballparked in line with his 9OA pedigree, holds until he gets a legit chance to play meaningful mins, which has not happened to date.
Like I said, 20 games on the 4th line of an injury riddled shit show of a team is not a legit chance.
Lias Andersson got meaningful mins w/Zib, Kreider, etc
He stunk up the joint.
He was a total bust, and I'm glad we got a 2nd for him.

Hopefully Drury will realize GM or not, stupid moves that pushed the kid's buttons are not smart.

Drury needs to understand, and anyone who wants to tell him I said so, that he has an obligation to the team and that means to have his personal bias bend buckle and break in capitulation to the best interest of the team. If he wants to replace Kravtsov with other futures he has chosen, fine, but he does not sabotage the value of the pick, which is what he has done.

Fortunately, this is something from which there is recovery.
1. Make a roster spot for Krav when he get here
2, Play him meaningful minutes here = top Fs as linemates
3. Give decent opportunity for the kid to succeed time wise.

And then we judge.
And if he is another Lias Andersson, which I am projecting he certainly won't be, I'll be the first to call him a bum and demand he go.

Until then, I get the vultures want 9OA talent for less than cheap.

Not gonna happen.

So in conclusion, that NY controls Krav's situation and can repair it, the perception Rangers are forced to give him away and hence he is not worth ballpark 9OA value is wrong.

Then to that were added Trouba, Jones and retained Strome = 1st.

Now if you still prefer Seider b'c you value him that highly, fine.

But let's not pretend you were not offered appreciable package

 

[bernmeister]

I remember the time you were offering Buch for a top 10-15 pick.

Maybe your 'objective' valuations are way off.

Upon information and belief, at 1 pt EDM was willing to go there.

Rangers screwed that up by being greedy, trying to make playoffs last yr when they had no shot and they held on to him hoping despite everyone knowing he would command a significant raise that they could still get that kind of return. Obv, it was greedy overreach, Buch had more value w/more production on a cheap contract. That was an objective conclusion.

So yeah, we all make mistakes, me included.

But on this one, I am right and Rangers braintrust was wrong.

 

[UED]

I don't think they need anything more than a couple middle 6 Cs and to replace their many AHL scorers with NHL role players like the Rangers and Oilers did this offseason. Besides they can't do much to get worse. Their top unit is one of the best in the NHL already and very important for the future, and pretty much no one else is NHL caliber anyway. So IMO just stay the course and draft their 2C this year and grab one or two NHLers off of UFA or trades per season until Edvinsson and the 2022 draft pick come over. Don't think they can possibly fail with Raymond, Seider and Edvinsson on the same team for 15 years let alone with Larkin and Bertuzzi supporting them.

 

[bernmeister]

I don't think they need anything more than a couple middle 6 Cs and to replace their many AHL scorers with NHL role players like the Rangers and Oilers did this offseason. Besides they can't do much to get worse. Their top unit is one of the best in the NHL already and very important for the future, and pretty much no one else is NHL caliber anyway. So IMO just stay the course and draft their 2C this year and grab one or two NHLers off of UFA or trades per season until Edvinsson and the 2022 draft pick come over. Don't think they can possibly fail with Raymond, Seider and Edvinsson on the same team for 15 years let alone with Larkin and Bertuzzi supporting them.

mostly this^ and I repeat
the hypothetical on Seider was in reponse to OP query. which in full context was comprehensive and fair.

Seider is not going anywhere.
It's nice conversation to examine theoreticals.
But end of the day
Seider is a building block
and
Rangers get more for Krav elsewhere

Howev, moving on from Trouba at some pt is real, and Wings coud use him if we could agree on a price.

 

[WF19]

Ya, Seider, Raymond, Edvisson and Larkin are the only untouchables on this team. Everyone else is fair game. Fabbri,Zadina,Hronek,Ras, Leddy, Staal,Stecher and Greiss are who is gonna get moved. Bert is also going nowhere due to vaccine and he actually makes the team better and chemistry with Bert and Larkin

 

[Ice Mammoth]

If the chance was more important he probably wouldn't have signed in Detroit...

www.capfriendly.com Not that hard to find.

Are you familiar with terms like: cap space, projected cap space, LTIR, deadline?
Do you understand that projected cap space is not a constant value?
You can read more about this on the CapFriendly website.
CapFriendly - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

I am amazed at the slight one-sidedness of your reasoning.
Which Stanley Cup challenger team could offer a good contract for the Pius Suter?
Look at the salary cap for these teams before the season starts.

Now the situation has changed.
Detroit can trade a player (@50% ret).
Detroit could get a bad contract (1 year). Detroit will now lose less in real dollars.

You are excluding other options. Pius Suter signed with Detroit to receive:
- Highest AAV.
- The ability to play in a better position to increase your value.
- Ability to join the Stanley Cup Challenger team. If there's a good offer for Detroit. Perhaps the player agreed on this with Yzerman when signing the contract.

I think this is a possible option. Do you think differently? This is also possible.
These are assumptions, not facts.
Do you have inside information? I doubt it.
I think the exchange of Pius Suter is possible. See my commentary # 68.

Who can be traded from Detroit? How much compensation can Detroit get? Make your offer.

 

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

Detroit got there by excellent drafting, not fortune. Fortune has screwed them several times.

... That being said, there's no indication fortune will stop screwing them. And they've continued to overcome it with excellent drafting. Why Holland ever moved away from just trusting Hakan Andersson is beyond me.

Why can't it be both? After Fischer was taken in the 1st round in 1998, they had five picks in each of rounds 2 through 6 with a combined 0 NHL games. Then late in the 6th round, they get Datsyuk. If it's all drafting prowess and no fortune, all of those mid-round picks wouldn't have busted, and they would have known Datsyuk was a blue-chipper, meaning they wouldn't have let him get to round 6.

Andersen is a legend with a well-above average track record, but you don't get Hall of Famers in the 6th round without luck. This can be said about all of Detroit's late round home runs.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Are you familiar with terms like: cap space, projected cap space, LTIR, deadline?
Do you understand that projected cap space is not a constant value?
You can read more about this on the CapFriendly website.
CapFriendly - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

I am amazed at the slight one-sidedness of your reasoning.
Which Stanley Cup challenger team could offer a good contract for the Pius Suter?
Look at the salary cap for these teams before the season starts.

Now the situation has changed.
Detroit can trade a player (@50% ret).
Detroit could get a bad contract (1 year). Detroit will now lose less in real dollars.

You are excluding other options. Pius Suter signed with Detroit to receive:
- Highest AAV.
- The ability to play in a better position to increase your value.
- Ability to join the Stanley Cup Challenger team. If there's a good offer for Detroit. Perhaps the player agreed on this with Yzerman when signing the contract.

I think this is a possible option. Do you think differently? This is also possible.
These are assumptions, not facts.
Do you have inside information? I doubt it.
I think the exchange of Pius Suter is possible. See my commentary # 68.

Who can be traded from Detroit? How much compensation can Detroit get? Make your offer.

Are you familiar with the fact that Edmonton would have $80M tied up if they added Suter, without having Yamamoto or Puljujarvi signed?

I didn't even read the rest of that beyond the first sentence. Look at their cap space before you propose this ridiculousness.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Why can't it be both? After Fischer was taken in the 1st round in 1998, they had five picks in each of rounds 2 through 6 with a combined 0 NHL games. Then late in the 6th round, they get Datsyuk. If it's all drafting prowess and no fortune, all of those mid-round picks wouldn't have busted, and they would have known Datsyuk was a blue-chipper, meaning they wouldn't have let him get to round 6.

Andersen is a legend with a well-above average track record, but you don't get Hall of Famers in the 6th round without luck. This can be said about all of Detroit's late round home runs.

1. It's pretty well known that Detroit knew nobody else scouted Datsyuk. To the degree that Hakan has said in interviews that he purposely tried not to show other scouts how interested he was in Datsyuk, and he knew that a STL scout missed a game that Datsyuk was playing in.

2. Weird to bring up Fischer in a post where you argue that Detroit had good fortune. Fischer is the epitome of bad fortune. While we're at it, we can bring up the bad fortune of what happened to Vladdy, too.

 

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

1. It's pretty well known that Detroit knew nobody else scouted Datsyuk. To the degree that Hakan has said in interviews that he purposely tried not to show other scouts how interested he was in, and he knew that a STL scout missed a game that Datsyuk was playing in.

2. Weird to bring up Fischer in a post where you argue that Detroit had good fortune. Fischer is the epitome of bad fortune. While we're at it, we can bring up the bad fortune of what happened to Vladdy, too.

1. So they picked five consecutive busts in a 64D chess move to not alert other teams of their interest in Datsyuk? No. If your drafting is that infallible, then you don't pick those players, and if you're that certain that Datsyuk is a stud, you don't wait until the 6th round.

2. Weird to acknowledge the presence of chance when drafting players in post where you argue that chance does not impact Detroit's drafting. And I'd suggest that considering the seriousness of Fischer's condition, and that the Wings got a young, motivated alumnus to become a key contributor to their player development staff. Quite fortunate indeed.

Again, both things can be true. Good drafting takes luck, and talented personnel can put the odds in your favour.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

1. So they picked five consecutive busts in a 64D chess move to not alert other teams of their interest in Datsyuk? No. If your drafting is that infallible, then you don't pick those players, and if you're that certain that Datsyuk is a stud, you don't wait until the 6th round.

2. Weird to acknowledge the presence of chance when drafting players in post where you argue that chance does not impact Detroit's drafting. And I'd suggest that considering the seriousness of Fischer's condition, and that the Wings got a young, motivated alumnus to become a key contributor to their player development staff. Quite fortunate indeed.

Again, both things can be true. Good drafting takes luck, and talented personnel can put the odds in your favour.

You seriously just tried to suggest that Fischer keeling over on the ice and having his career cut short was actually good fortune for Detroit?

We're done.

 

[Pavels Dog]

9OA Krav + Trouba + LD Jones [who can play either side and is well regarded but as Fox lite is gonna get traded eventually] + Strome retained + Geo + Hajek + two 2022 4ths [NYR + WPG]

for

Seider + DET 2022 3rd

Let me try this, it's fun.

6OA Zadina + Hronek + LD Wallinder (who can play either side and is well regarded but as Edvinsson lite is gonna get traded eventually) + Bertuzzi retained + Ned + McIsaac + two 2022 4ths (COL+VGK)

for

Adam Fox + NYR 2023 3rd

Deal?

 

[TBF1972]

Upon information and belief, at 1 pt EDM was willing to go there.

Rangers screwed that up by being greedy, trying to make playoffs last yr when they had no shot and they held on to him hoping despite everyone knowing he would command a significant raise that they could still get that kind of return. Obv, it was greedy overreach, Buch had more value w/more production on a cheap contract. That was an objective conclusion.

So yeah, we all make mistakes, me included.

But on this one, I am right and Rangers braintrust was wrong.

i know you live in a fantasy world. just for the rest of us:

edmonton wasn't willing to go there. you had an agreement from ONE edmonton fan here on hfboards.

 

[jfrank21]

Let me try this, it's fun.

6OA Zadina + Hronek + LD Wallinder (who can play either side and is well regarded but as Edvinsson lite is gonna get traded eventually) + Bertuzzi retained + Ned + McIsaac + two 2022 4ths (COL+VGK)

for

Adam Fox + NYR 2023 3rd

Deal?

But that is literally an overpay for Fox....drop Tuzzi and Ned, add Fabbri and your deal is closer to the original garbage proposal.

 

[McJedi]

only way I even consider trading seider is for an equal center of the same age, even then I dont probably do. Not trading for a bunch of lesser "good" pieces.

Would you trade Sieder for Zegras?

 

[Ice Mammoth]

Are you familiar with the fact that Edmonton would have $80M tied up if they added Suter, without having Yamamoto or Puljujarvi signed?

I didn't even read the rest of that beyond the first sentence. Look at their cap space before you propose this ridiculousness.

I wrote - “Do you understand that projected cap space is not a constant value?“

I read your comment. I was very surprised.
You wrote -
“I didn't even read the rest of that beyond the first sentence. Look at their cap space before you propose this ridiculousness.”

So I quoted my second sentence first. Perhaps you will only read the first sentence again? Or is it time for the fourth sentence?
I am quoting my first three sentences -
“Are you familiar with terms like: cap space, projected cap space, LTIR, deadline?
Do you understand that projected cap space is not a constant value?
You can read more about this on the CapFriendly website. “

Perhaps I understood you. This is such a game. You are bored and offer to play charades. This is certainly entertaining. Are you sure this site is suitable for this?

I wrote - “Who can be traded from Detroit? How much compensation can Detroit get? Make your offer“.
I have highlighted this in bold. Let's be more constructive. Suddenly you read this.

You wrote -
“Look at their cap space before you propose this ridiculousness. “
“Are you familiar with the fact that Edmonton would have $80M tied up if they added Suter, without having Yamamoto or Puljujarvi signed? “

Can you use the CapFriendly website?
Edmonton Oilers Salary Cap, Draft Picks, and Player Contracts - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
Pay attention to the LTIR column.

Remember my proposal. Once again, I ask you to see my comment #68.
I wrote - “It is possible to include a third team in the deal. Edmonton pays for it.“
$6,850,000 - $6,150,000 = $0,700,000. That amount won't give Edmonton much trouble.
There are simple ways to accomplish this. Perhaps such an exchange will help Edmonton win the Stanley Cup.

RFA 2022: Ryan Mcleod, Kailer Yamamoto, Jesse Puljujärvi.
After this season, this problem can be easily solved. Nobody will cancel the exchange of players in the NHL. Edmonton will sign new contracts with the right players. The rest can be exchanged.

If you read my comment in full, I will quote myself again -
“Who can be traded from Detroit? How much compensation can Detroit get? Make your offer“.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

I wrote - “Do you understand that projected cap space is not a constant value?“

I read your comment. I was very surprised.
You wrote -
“I didn't even read the rest of that beyond the first sentence. Look at their cap space before you propose this ridiculousness.”

So I quoted my second sentence first. Perhaps you will only read the first sentence again? Or is it time for the fourth sentence?
I am quoting my first three sentences -
“Are you familiar with terms like: cap space, projected cap space, LTIR, deadline?
Do you understand that projected cap space is not a constant value?
You can read more about this on the CapFriendly website. “

Perhaps I understood you. This is such a game. You are bored and offer to play charades. This is certainly entertaining. Are you sure this site is suitable for this?

I wrote - “Who can be traded from Detroit? How much compensation can Detroit get? Make your offer“.
I have highlighted this in bold. Let's be more constructive. Suddenly you read this.

You wrote -
“Look at their cap space before you propose this ridiculousness. “
“Are you familiar with the fact that Edmonton would have $80M tied up if they added Suter, without having Yamamoto or Puljujarvi signed? “

Can you use the CapFriendly website?
Edmonton Oilers Salary Cap, Draft Picks, and Player Contracts - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
Pay attention to the LTIR column.

Remember my proposal. Once again, I ask you to see my comment #68.
I wrote - “It is possible to include a third team in the deal. Edmonton pays for it.“
$6,850,000 - $6,150,000 = $0,700,000. That amount won't give Edmonton much trouble.
There are simple ways to accomplish this. Perhaps such an exchange will help Edmonton win the Stanley Cup.

RFA 2022: Ryan Mcleod, Kailer Yamamoto, Jesse Puljujärvi.
After this season, this problem can be easily solved. Nobody will cancel the exchange of players in the NHL. Edmonton will sign new contracts with the right players. The rest can be exchanged.

If you read my comment in full, I will quote myself again -
“Who can be traded from Detroit? How much compensation can Detroit get? Make your offer“.

Yeesh. We have our very own Bern. Not reading all that.

If Edmonton and Suter wanted each other, they'd have made a deal in the offseason.

 

[Ice Mammoth]

Yeesh. We have our very own Bern. Not reading all that.

If Edmonton and Suter wanted each other, they'd have made a deal in the offseason.

I educated myself that I would read a similar comment.
I even took screenshots of the page as a keepsake of you.
Your every comment is a masterpiece of logic.
I will try to be brief.
Maybe you have a character limit like Twitter.

I will repeat my question - “Who can be traded from Detroit? How much compensation can Detroit get? Make your offer“.
I look forward to hearing from you.
To make your task easier, I am posting your favorite emoticon.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

I educated myself that I would read a similar comment.
I even took screenshots of the page as a keepsake of you.
Your every comment is a masterpiece of logic.
I will try to be brief.
Maybe you have a character limit like Twitter.

I will repeat my question - “Who can be traded from Detroit? How much compensation can Detroit get? Make your offer“.
I look forward to hearing from you.
To make your task easier, I am posting your favorite emoticon.

That moment when you have to punt back to your OP because you now realize Edmonton doesn't have the cap space for Suter.

 

[Ice Mammoth]

That moment when you have to punt back to your OP because you now realize Edmonton doesn't have the cap space for Suter.

I will repeat my question - “Who can be traded from Detroit? How much compensation can Detroit get? Make your offer“.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Would you trade Sieder for Zegras?

Just one data point here, but I don't think I would make that trade from the Detroit side.

 

[McJedi]

Just one data point here, but I don't think I would make that trade from the Detroit side.

I wouldn’t trade Byram for Zegras either. But he’s one of the few same aged forwards (C) I’d think about it for. Raymond is another.

Byram has played and looked like an absolute star in the making for the Avs this season. Seider is also promising. 2019 looking like a great draft for the Avs and Red wings. Great for Anaheim too.

0.00% chance I’d consider Dach, Cozens or Kakko for Byram. And Turcotte? lol.