Confirmed Signing with Link: [DET] D Justin Holl signs with the Red Wings (3 years, $3.4M AAV)

[spfan]

Yzerman was not even with the Wings organization when Zadina was drafted.

So out of the hundred + players he's drafted you cite TWO players (both of whom were NHLers and were drafted over 10 years ago) to prove he's not a good gm??

Strong argument...

Did Dubas draft any of the core players for the Leafs as GM?

"Cossa's not developing great" is a fantastic sign of your insight into Detroit's pool.

Wallstedt>>Cossa

It's not just the number of picks. It's that those were top 10 picks. If a 3rd rounder becomes nothing, that's expected. Missing on a top 10 pick is pretty crucial. I've also stated he's made good picks. But I see him get credit for the Seider's and the Vasilevskiy's but ignoring the ones that were bad picks.

Also I'm just talking about the draft moves here.

I also listed trades/signings.

This Holl move is dumb imo.
I don't know what the hell he did with Vrana.
Getting Yamamoto just to buy him out. And if it was just to get Kostin, still why? Kostin is hardly that good of a player. They could've just used the money on better players as UFA's.
There's some pieces, but at this point, I'm not seeing a Cup in their future.

 

[Reality Check]

Justin Holl gonna prove everyone wrong just like Larry Murphy did in Detroit

 

[MCR74]

Justin Holl gonna prove everyone wrong just like Larry Murphy did in Detroit

l wouldn't bet the farm, but you never know.

 

[Seider and Donuts]

Why does that matter?

You need that time to see what they become anyways.

Wallstedt>>Cossa

Comical.

 

[Siludin]

Wallstedt>>Cossa

It's not just the number of picks. It's that those were top 10 picks. If a 3rd rounder becomes nothing, that's expected. Missing on a top 10 pick is pretty crucial. I've also stated he's made good picks. But I see him get credit for the Seider's and the Vasilevskiy's but ignoring the ones that were bad picks.

Also I'm just talking about the draft moves here.

I also listed trades/signings.

This Holl move is dumb imo.
I don't know what the hell he did with Vrana.
Getting Yamamoto just to buy him out. And if it was just to get Kostin, still why? Kostin is hardly that good of a player. They could've just used the money on better players as UFA's.
There's some pieces, but at this point, I'm not seeing a Cup in their future.

The Yamamoto deal was a back scratch between Holland and Yzerman imo. May as well have included future considerations as part of the package but because there were already moving pieces, it didn't need to be explicitly stated.

 

[The Red Line]

Wallstedt>>Cossa

It's not just the number of picks. It's that those were top 10 picks. If a 3rd rounder becomes nothing, that's expected. Missing on a top 10 pick is pretty crucial. I've also stated he's made good picks. But I see him get credit for the Seider's and the Vasilevskiy's but ignoring the ones that were bad picks.

Also I'm just talking about the draft moves here.

I also listed trades/signings.

This Holl move is dumb imo.
I don't know what the hell he did with Vrana.
Getting Yamamoto just to buy him out. And if it was just to get Kostin, still why? Kostin is hardly that good of a player. They could've just used the money on better players as UFA's.
There's some pieces, but at this point, I'm not seeing a Cup in their future.

Literally every GM in the history has hits and misses. Yzerman has had more hits than misses, unlike many GMs. Why is it only him that you have an issue with?

 

[TKB]

He shouldn’t have been. That’s the entire point. That’s on Keefe.

Look, I’m the last person to stand up for Holl’s brain farts. I poke fun at him consistently, but to pretend he wasn’t overplayed in the wrong situations is ridiculous. It was a huge debate during the playoffs. Don’t pretend it wasn’t. For people to also pretend he wasn’t getting a contract in this area is also ridiculous. I’m just surprised it wasn’t Dubas to give it to him.

He’s a clear upgrade from Gustav Lindstrom for Detroit. What was their alternative right now? They desperately needed a RH dman. They were obviously in on Clifton, as the Holl signing came minutes afterwards. Klingberg and Dumba have more problems than Holl too. So the options weren’t great.

I appreciate the perspective, don't know of him except what read. For all the eyebrows this may raise, there are reasons for the signing as well. Worst case scenario is not going to hurt the rteam in the long run.

Have fun with Holl and Rainbow Reimer

Yeah because the rebuild is dependant on these 2 signings

 

[spfan]

Lmao in the same exact post you say - "you need time to see what they become"

And then literally call a pick from FOUR DAYS AGO a bad pick. You don't realize how hilarious that is?

Your issue is that you don't like Yzerman and the Wings, not that you actually have a good argument for him being a bad gm.

"Lmao in the same exact post you say - "you need time to see what they become" "

That was my exact point. You're saying that I can't bring up a draft pick he made 10 years ago. But why? I mean, I didn't need ALL those years to evaluate the Koekoek and Connolly picks, but at the time of the draft, I didn't like them. A few years later, they looked much worse.

And I'm not contradicting myself. I'm saying at the time of the draft, I'm not big on the Danielson and Kasper picks. Maybe they turn into stars and I'm wrong. And to be more in depth on those picks specifically. I think they'll be NHLers. Just not as good as some of the other players.

I have nothing against Detroit. I just think Yzerman's made some bad moves. Also I was criticizing his draft picks for TBL. So how exactly does that make me dislike Detroit? I've also clearly stated he has made some good picks. But plenty of bad ones to go with the good ones.

I said ASP was a good pick. He's the best d-man in the draft in my opinion. Again, I'm not just bashing all and any decision he's made. ASP - great. Connolly - bad.

 

[AustonMarner]

Over three Mill?!?!?!!? WTF!!!!

Isn't this guy a pretty standard dime-a-dozen 6rd pairing defenseman?

When playing well, he's a solid, big-bodied, # 4-5 defenseman, above average penalty kill, who requires a solid (better than him) 2 way LH defense partner to succeed... I've never seen more pucks die on a defenseman's stick since Jamie Macoun (offensive comparison only) very little offensive instinct, defensely sound, lack of foot speed and decision making cost the Leafs dearly in the Panthers series (amongst other things)

If red wings still aren't competing, he'll be tradeable in year 3 (trade deadline)
Since i Know Yzerman is 10 times the GM Dubas could ever be lol

 

[spfan]

Literally every GM in the history has hits and misses. Yzerman has had more hits than misses, unlike many GMs. Why is it only him that you have an issue with?

I feel he gets credit for his hits and never criticized. The Seider one especially. It looked not so good at the time, Yzerman turned out right. But he's also had big misses. People shouldn't ignore the bad cause he hit on Seider.

I agree every GM has made good and bad moves. This is a thread about a new move Yzerman made. So obviously this is why I'm talking about Yzerman. I didn't like Hextall as Pens GM. But I wasn't going to randomly mention him at the start of a Detroit thread.

 

[spfan]

Comical.

As I said, I never contradicted myself.

At the time of the draft, I liked Wallstedt more. A couple years out, I think Wallstedt is developing better.

Wallstedt could bust and Cossa could win a Vezina. But right now, I wouldn't be predicting that.

The Augustine pick at 41st actually tells me Detroit is not that secure with Cossa.

I'm sure you'll tell me that it gives Cossa competition and doesn't hurt. Which, sure I guess. But If they were super confident in Cossa, I don't think they take a goalie pretty high.(given that goalies weren't going much higher in this draft anyways)

 

[The Red Line]

I feel he gets credit for his hits and never criticized. The Seider one especially. It looked not so good at the time, Yzerman turned out right. But he's also had big misses. People shouldn't ignore the bad cause he hit on Seider.

I agree every GM has made good and bad moves. This is a thread about a new move Yzerman made. So obviously this is why I'm talking about Yzerman. I didn't like Hextall as Pens GM. But I wasn't going to randomly mention him at the start of a Detroit thread.

People constantly criticize him, you alone have like 11 posts in this thread doing so, and many many others in here as well. Plenty of Wings fans criticize him as well. He isn't perfect.

You have some irrational issue with the fact that he gets credit for being a very good gm, which he objectively is. You keep bringing up Seider as if that was his only noteworthy hit, and even then you are saying he got lucky with that pick.

 

[Seider and Donuts]

As I said, I never contradicted myself.

At the time of the draft, I liked Wallstedt more. A couple years out, I think Wallstedt is developing better.

Wallstedt could bust and Cossa could win a Vezina. But right now, I wouldn't be predicting that.

The Augustine pick at 41st actually tells me Detroit is not that secure with Cossa.

I'm sure you'll tell me that it gives Cossa competition and doesn't hurt. Which, sure I guess. But If they were super confident in Cossa, I don't think they take a goalie pretty high.(given that goalies weren't going much higher in this draft anyways)

Picking a second goalie means you're no confident in your first goalie?

Buddy, you're trying to sell me on somebody being a bad GM because he used one of three second round picks to make sure he had some depth at a position and didn't bank everything on one single solitary guy.

Please stop. You sound ridiculous at this point.

 

[Dotter]

"Lmao in the same exact post you say - "you need time to see what they become" "

That was my exact point. You're saying that I can't bring up a draft pick he made 10 years ago. But why? I mean, I didn't need ALL those years to evaluate the Koekoek and Connolly picks, but at the time of the draft, I didn't like them. A few years later, they looked much worse.

And I'm not contradicting myself. I'm saying at the time of the draft, I'm not big on the Danielson and Kasper picks. Maybe they turn into stars and I'm wrong. And to be more in depth on those picks specifically. I think they'll be NHLers. Just not as good as some of the other players.

I have nothing against Detroit. I just think Yzerman's made some bad moves. Also I was criticizing his draft picks for TBL. So how exactly does that make me dislike Detroit? I've also clearly stated he has made some good picks. But plenty of bad ones to go with the good ones.

I said ASP was a good pick. He's the best d-man in the draft in my opinion. Again, I'm not just bashing all and any decision he's made. ASP - great. Connolly - bad.

You proved you're not knowledgeable enough to criticize Yzerman's picks since being in Detroit. At this point you seem like you're spewing piss & vinegar, while being completely out of touch with his drafting.

 

[spfan]

People constantly criticize him, you alone have like 11 posts in this thread doing so, and many many others in here as well. Plenty of Wings fans criticize him as well. He isn't perfect.

You have some irrational issue with the fact that he gets credit for being a very good gm, which he objectively is. You keep bringing up Seider as if that was his only noteworthy hit, and even then you are saying he got lucky with that pick.

I didn't say he was lucky. I simply said he hit on it. He was right, most people were wrong. Including myself.


From what I hear and see, Yzerman gets a lot of credit. I think he needs more criticizing.


It doesn't mean I hate Yzerman, Detroit, TBL. I like them just fine. They're not my favourite, obviously. But not on my hate or dislike list. I also have stated on here multiple times that I love ASP. I think that was a great pick. (and obviously that will take time to see the true results)
I'm not saying everything he does is bad. I'm not saying Seider was his only smart move. I just think there's a lot more bad than what I perceive to be his credit from fans.

 

[spfan]

Picking a second goalie means you're no confident in your first goalie?

Buddy, you're trying to sell me on somebody being a bad GM because he used one of three second round picks to make sure he had some depth at a position and didn't bank everything on one single solitary guy.

Please stop. You sound ridiculous at this point.

No, I'm telling you that I think they're less confident in Cossa now. Not that it means he is a bad GM overall.

If you think Cossa is going to be an elite goalie. Cool. I'm not too confident on that. I think Wallstedt was the better goalie. And nothing has changed so far. Maybe you hate Wallstedt, I don't know.


Yzerman's made more bad moves than what I perceive to be the consensus on him from fans.
Does that means I think he only makes bad moves? No.

I agreed with his ASP pick. Same with Raymond.

He's not the worst GM. But at this point, I just don't foresee a Cup coming their way.

You proved you're not knowledgeable enough to criticize Yzerman's picks since being in Detroit. At this point you seem like you're spewing piss & vinegar, while being completely out of touch with his drafting.

In the exact same post, I said ASP was a good pick. You're acting as if I said every decision he made was bad.

 

[BayStBullies]

Nice guy. That's about it.

 

[LeafGrief]

Holl is a decent player, but that's still a rather rich deal for a guy you really want on your third pair. Oh well, Wings will have a solid D group, though rather pricey.

 

[Seider and Donuts]

No, I'm telling you that I think they're less confident in Cossa now. Not that it means he is a bad GM overall.

If you think Cossa is going to be an elite goalie. Cool. I'm not too confident on that. I think Wallstedt was the better goalie. And nothing has changed so far. Maybe you hate Wallstedt, I don't know.


Yzerman's made more bad moves than what I perceive to be the consensus on him from fans.
Does that means I think he only makes bad moves? No.

I agreed with his ASP pick. Same with Raymond.

He's not the worst GM. But at this point, I just don't foresee a Cup coming their way.

Chicago picked Oliver Moore with their second 1st round pick.

Must not be confident in Bedard.

 

[ShelbyZ]

The Yamamoto deal was a back scratch between Holland and Yzerman imo.

What did Yzerman owe Holland? A thanks for teaching him how to hand out NTC's like candy?

 

[spfan]

Chicago picked Oliver Moore with their second 1st round pick.

Must not be confident in Bedard.

That's a ridiculous reply.

Augustine I would put pretty much on par with Cossa(at least more so at the time of his draft).

You need more than a 1C. But you don't need more than 1 top goalie.

You think Augustine was picked to be back up? lol

 

[ItWasJustified]

Holl is a decent player

Out of every player who stepped onto the ice during this year's playoffs, Holl was the worst player. By far.

 

[Hollowmoon]

Solid #6

 

[Seider and Donuts]

That's a ridiculous reply.

Augustine I would put pretty much on par with Cossa(at least more so at the time of his draft).

You need more than a 1C. But you don't need more than 1 top goalie.

You think Augustine was picked to be back up? lol

I think Augustine was picked because it's absolutely foolish to put all your eggs in one basket. Not just because of development but because of injuries or off ice issues.

Not sure what part of that isn't getting through your head. The fact that you want to argue about it though tells me you don't really have any good ammo and are just arguing for the sake of it.

 

[Siludin]

What did Yzerman owe Holland? A thanks for teaching him how to hand out NTC's like candy?

I considered it from the angle of "hey we will give you a break in this case, but we have to be at the top of your speed dial the next time X opportunity is available", which definitely does happen, and why you tend to see a lot of successive trades between two random teams who are going different directions over multiple years.