Despite major challanges, Kyle Dubas has passed the tests

[Hoglund4MvP]

Sens are making moves to compete with the top 3 in the Atlantic. Trading Murray to Toronto is not the same as trading Murray to trash like Buffalo. Murray or any goalie for that matter is guaranteed to get lit up there, but take a goalie with decent skill and put him on one of toronto / tampa / boston / florida etc and they will be perfectly fine.

Logically the sweetener/retention we get from Ottawa will be less than the sweetener they would give a team like Buffalo. Why does Buffalo need to pay Murray? They are rebuilding, they are fine giving up 5-7 goals a game, they don't need to pay a goalie right now.

This helps decrease the sweetener loss a bit, but I agree we lost that aspect of the trade, even though I think Murray will be perfectly fine here. Hopefully he performs at a level we couldn't care less what the sweetener was.

I just make similar post in murray trade thread using marleau as example. It does seem like we over-react past 2 days about the sweetener.

Asking Buffalo to pay murrays salary is same as someone asking us to pay let's say, Loui Eriksson last season. Leafs and Sabres both say "why in the world do we want to pay that?" out of the box, so the sweetener needs to be truly amazing to do it.

Murray is not same "why do we want to pay that?" Leafs actually have a good reason to have to take a chance on murray he has potential to be difference between stanley cup or not but Murray isn't going to do anything to bridge gap for sabres

So if you combine your post with mine it's hard to say it was a fleece.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Imagine if Dubas moved up 13 places the exact same from the second to the first and his detractors argued it didn’t really matter

That's exactly what would happen. Comments like "we wasted assets to take THAT guy??" and "we could have just waited and took him at our original pick!" and "why didn't we just wait and draft a 7 foot 300 pound defenseman instead!?" would paint these boards.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Saving $1.6m on the Murray contract would have helped sign better UFAs. Instead we get Guadette and Samsonov who's teams threw them to the curb and an Avs waiver wire pickup. Steeves, Anderson and Robertson should be the answers but are they ??

Underwhelming offseason so far.

This is a fail of an offseason so far: the draft and free agency.

Soon he'll have to move Kerfoot and Holl to bring in cheaper less effective players.

I heard The Fan Morning Show describe the Leafs' roster as "thin".

I'm sure Dubasbots will go at me saying: we have elite forwards, great coaching (haha), solid defense, and "potentially the best goaltending depth in the National Hockey League".

DUBAS must address:

1. 3rd line forwards
2. A whole 4th line
3. A winger to play in the top 6
4. A possible trade to deal with the Sandin situation. Maybe they'll make Holl the 7th D, but that's an expensive 7th D man.

The Leafs will be fine next year. They might be 1st or 2nd in the Atlantic. As for the playoffs they'll most certainly be knocked out of the 1st round. They do not have the depth, nor the strength of character to win it all.

On a positive note:

Wickenheiser and Spezza could be signed to league minimum contracts to provide depth scoring if things look dire around Christmas time.

 

[thewave]

This is a fail of an offseason so far: the draft and free agency.

Soon he'll have to move Kerfoot and Holl to bring in cheaper less effective players.

I heard The Fan Morning Show describe the Leafs' roster as "thin".

I'm sure Dubasbots will go at me saying: we have elite forwards, great coaching (haha), solid defense, and "potentially the best goaltending depth in the National Hockey League".

DUBAS must address:

1. 3rd line forwards
2. A whole 4th line
3. A winger to play in the top 6
4. A possible trade to deal with the Sandin situation. Maybe they'll make Holl the 7th D, but that's an expensive 7th D man.

The Leafs will be fine next year. They might be 1st or 2nd in the Atlantic. As for the playoffs they'll most certainly be knocked out of the 1st round. They do not have the depth, nor the strength of character to win it all.

On a positive note:

Wickenheiser and Spezza could be signed to league minimum contracts to provide depth scoring if things look dire around Christmas time.

The depth is a disaster. Couple injuries and we're running 2 sub NHL level lines out there in a PO situation. It's not even worth debating, that's a fact at this point. Dubas would have to have a miracle on ice moment to win with this.

 

[ToneDog]

This is a fail of an offseason so far: the draft and free agency.

Soon he'll have to move Kerfoot and Holl to bring in cheaper less effective players.

I heard The Fan Morning Show describe the Leafs' roster as "thin".

I'm sure Dubasbots will go at me saying: we have elite forwards, great coaching (haha), solid defense, and "potentially the best goaltending depth in the National Hockey League".

DUBAS must address:

1. 3rd line forwards
2. A whole 4th line
3. A winger to play in the top 6
4. A possible trade to deal with the Sandin situation. Maybe they'll make Holl the 7th D, but that's an expensive 7th D man.

The Leafs will be fine next year. They might be 1st or 2nd in the Atlantic. As for the playoffs they'll most certainly be knocked out of the 1st round. They do not have the depth, nor the strength of character to win it all.

On a positive note:

Wickenheiser and Spezza could be signed to league minimum contracts to provide depth scoring if things look dire around Christmas time.

I see it as you and many others and am being called negative. Oh yeah but we were a 115 point team. Means shit all when you choke when the real season starts.

 

[rocketman588]

This is a fail of an offseason so far: the draft and free agency.

Soon he'll have to move Kerfoot and Holl to bring in cheaper less effective players.

I heard The Fan Morning Show describe the Leafs' roster as "thin".

I'm sure Dubasbots will go at me saying: we have elite forwards, great coaching (haha), solid defense, and "potentially the best goaltending depth in the National Hockey League".

DUBAS must address:

1. 3rd line forwards
2. A whole 4th line
3. A winger to play in the top 6
4. A possible trade to deal with the Sandin situation. Maybe they'll make Holl the 7th D, but that's an expensive 7th D man.

The Leafs will be fine next year. They might be 1st or 2nd in the Atlantic. As for the playoffs they'll most certainly be knocked out of the 1st round. They do not have the depth, nor the strength of character to win it all.

On a positive note:

Wickenheiser and Spezza could be signed to league minimum contracts to provide depth scoring if things look dire around Christmas time.

In a perfect world we would have addressed a partner for Reilly so we could go muzzin Brodie without having to play with a scrub also

 

[ToneDog]

The depth is a disaster. Couple injuries and we're running 2 sub NHL level lines out there in a PO situation. It's not even worth debating, that's a fact at this point. Dubas would have to have a miracle on ice moment to win with this.

Dubasites will never admit it. Must be in their DNA.

 

[Nineteen67]

We don't have a "~$7 million player that doesn't try in the playoffs" either.

Nylander’s effort level needs improvement. If he was Ovie or Hull you could put up with his weak play. But he’s not them.

His dump in in game 7 where he gave Foote ( or McDonaugh) the snow shower in and stick check in dying minutes pretty much sums up his game. In those situations you need more and I’m not sure he’ll ever provide it.

He’s doesnt block shots to prevent a scoring chances against, but will try if he thinks he can get a breakaway.

If they want to keep him they’ll either need guys to compensate for his shortcomings or he’ll have to compete a lot harder.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

In a perfect world we would have addressed a partner for Reilly so we could go muzzin Brodie without having to play with a scrub also

Oh yes. I completely forgot about the absence of Boosh.

I must say I didn't mind him. I think he's a better #6 than Holl. Boosh could play short minutes paired with Rielly, and then drop back to the #6 spot. He also could kill penalties/stop the cycle.

Holl is a 6-7 D who looks bad in the top 4. Expensive too for a number 6,7.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Yeah it's a weird one. When he took over the GM position he had Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Reilly, Andersen, Kadri, Hyman, Brown, Johnsson, Kapanen and a slew of others. Had cap space and a young team on the rise.

He's turned Andersen, Kadri, Hyman, Brown, Johnsson, Kapanen and 3 x 1st round picks, and a slew of others into Muzzin, Brodie, Kerfoot, Giordano, Bunting and some 4th liners.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Nylander’s effort level needs improvement.

There's nothing wrong with Nylander's effort level, and to claim he "doesn't try in the playoffs" is ridiculous.

 

[New User Name]

Hope a few of you know the answers to my questions.

In light of the Jonny G fiasco.

I noticed Matthews is signed up to and including the 2023-2024 after which he becomes an UFA.
He has a full NMC clause for 2023-24.

I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that teams can only start renegotiating a new contract from the 1st of July of the last year. If that's true and Auston refuses to talk, or they can't come to an agreement, then it also means Leafs can't trade him as of July 1 2023 (unless he agrees) and if he decides to leave after the 2023-24 season, he can leave.

I'm one that believes he will leave and if everything I've said above Matthews agent pulled a fast one on Dubas.

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

This is a fail of an offseason so far: the draft and free agency.

Soon he'll have to move Kerfoot and Holl to bring in cheaper less effective players.

I heard The Fan Morning Show describe the Leafs' roster as "thin".

I'm sure Dubasbots will go at me saying: we have elite forwards, great coaching (haha), solid defense, and "potentially the best goaltending depth in the National Hockey League".

DUBAS must address:

1. 3rd line forwards
2. A whole 4th line
3. A winger to play in the top 6
4. A possible trade to deal with the Sandin situation. Maybe they'll make Holl the 7th D, but that's an expensive 7th D man.

The Leafs will be fine next year. They might be 1st or 2nd in the Atlantic. As for the playoffs they'll most certainly be knocked out of the 1st round. They do not have the depth, nor the strength of character to win it all.

On a positive note:

Wickenheiser and Spezza could be signed to league minimum contracts to provide depth scoring if things look dire around Christmas time.

We are less than 24 hours into free agency, and he's already failed.

Too bad there isn't three more months of offseason to address some of the concerns.

Oh well, still excited for the game tomorrow.

 

[notbias]

Can someone please explain to me how the depth is "much worse"

Didn't we start last year with:

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Kerfoot - Tavares - Nylander
Mikheyev - Kampf - Engvall
Ritchie - Spezza - Simmonds

and now we have

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Kerfoot - Tavares - Nylander
Engvall - Kampf - Malgin
Clifford - NAK - Simmonds

We still have the potential to make some moves (and use some ELCs) and the depth only changed like this

Mikheyev > Malgin
Ritchie < Clifford (at least for us)
Spezza < NAK

If we start the season like this and sign no one else (unlikely), I think we are already better off.

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Robertson - Tavares - NAK
Holmberg - Kerfoot - Nylander
Engvall - Kampf - Malgiin

D is better this year already with Gio and goalies are a gamble, who knows, but can't be much worse than last year.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I'm one that believes he will leave and if everything I've said above Matthews agent pulled a fast one on Dubas.

He's not going anywhere, and Matthews-level talents getting trade protection is not in any way unusual or "pulling a fast one".

 

[ShaneFalco]

Can someone please explain to me how the depth is "much worse"

Didn't we start last year with:

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Kerfoot - Tavares - Nylander
Mikheyev - Kampf - Engvall
Ritchie - Spezza - Simmonds

and now we have

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Kerfoot - Tavares - Nylander
Engvall - Kampf - Malgin
Clifford - NAK - Simmonds

We still have the potential to make some moves (and use some ELCs) and the depth only changed like this

Mikheyev > Malgin
Ritchie < Clifford (at least for us)
Spezza < NAK

If we start the season like this and sign no one else (unlikely), I think we are already better off.

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Robertson - Tavares - NAK
Holmberg - Kerfoot - Nylander
Engvall - Kampf - Malgiin

D is better this year already with Gio and goalies are a gamble, who knows, but can't be much worse than last year.

Clifford, Simmonds and Malgin are good depth options? At least 2 of them shouldn't be in the NHL

 

[New User Name]

He's not going anywhere, and Matthews-level talents getting trade protection is not in any way unusual or "pulling a fast one".

That's your opinion. I have mine.

Quite frankly I didn't ask for anyone's opinion on if he leaves or doesn't leave.

I just asked for clarification on what I have asked.

 

[Stinger8]

There's nothing wrong with Nylander's effort level, and to claim he "doesn't try in the playoffs" is ridiculous.

His issue is and always has been consistency of effort. When Nylander floats and believe me he floats a lot he takes it to another level. He is like the Goodyear blimp of floaters. The times he decides to compete no problem I like his game than 2 games later its back, float city, no effort no desire no compete and so it goes. I like Sandin and Nylander for Chykryn and Crouse.

 

[keonsbitterness]

We literally just had a franchise record season.

Literally few people care. We already know we're a perennial playoff team. If winning the Presidents' Trophy winner really mattered, players wouldn't be getting four times more of a bonus for being a first round playoff loser.

 

[rocketman588]

Hope a few of you know the answers to my questions.

In light of the Jonny G fiasco.

I noticed Matthews is signed up to and including the 2023-2024 after which he becomes an UFA.
He has a full NMC clause for 2023-24.

I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that teams can only start renegotiating a new contract from the 1st of July of the last year. If that's true and Auston refuses to talk, or they can't come to an agreement, then it also means Leafs can't trade him as of July 1 2023 (unless he agrees) and if he decides to leave after the 2023-24 season, he can leave.

I'm one that believes he will leave and if everything I've said above Matthews agent pulled a fast one on Dubas.

Mitch has one for two years

So if it's evident that AM wants to test the market we can't get rid of Mitch either

 

[Dekes For Days]

That's your opinion.

You could argue the Matthews staying part is a strongly supported opinion (with absolutely no evidence otherwise), but the trade protection part is just straight up fact.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Hope a few of you know the answers to my questions.

In light of the Jonny G fiasco.

I noticed Matthews is signed up to and including the 2023-2024 after which he becomes an UFA.
He has a full NMC clause for 2023-24.

I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that teams can only start renegotiating a new contract from the 1st of July of the last year. If that's true and Auston refuses to talk, or they can't come to an agreement, then it also means Leafs can't trade him as of July 1 2023 (unless he agrees) and if he decides to leave after the 2023-24 season, he can leave.

I'm one that believes he will leave and if everything I've said above Matthews agent pulled a fast one on Dubas.

You can negotiate before July 1, you just can't officially sign until that day.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Literally few people care.

They literally should, especially when they're making a specific false claim that "Leafs have gotten worse every season under dubas" - which isn't true regardless of whether we're looking at regular season or playoffs.

If winning the Presidents' Trophy winner really mattered, players wouldn't be getting four times more of a bonus for being a first round playoff loser.

What are you even trying to say here?

 

[WTFMAN99]

You can negotiate before July 1, you just can't officially sign until that day.

Yes - I expect they’re gonna try very hard in the months leading up to that day so they can announce it asap.

Likely 13-14M x8 years, tons of signing bonuses and NMC.

If we fail in the 1st round again or don’t make it at all, we could hear crickets.

 

[New User Name]

You could argue the Matthews staying part is a strongly supported opinion (with absolutely no evidence otherwise), but the trade protection part is just straight up fact.

Yes I know about trade protection. But Tavares last 2 years with the Islanders he had a modified NTC that allowed him to list 8 team no trade list.
Auston has a full NMC.