Thank you for illustrating precisely why it's a poor justification for anything.
Derek Dorsett
- Thread starter jigsaw99
- Start date
They certainly had their share of grinders (desjardins, kruger, shaw, brown, morrow, boyle, paquette)
I'm not setting anything aside, as I've said I am against the moves based on the cost. But it is also important to separate strategy from execution and a strategy can still be sound even if the execution is poor.
Overall I hate the Prust move, but not because I don't value what Prust brings but because the cost was way too high. If we acquire him for a 5th alone, I am fine with the move.
I try not to get caught up in sweeping generalizations about things. Just because Benning has made some very bad moves does not mean everything he does or tries to do is bad. That is a simplistic viewpoint and rarely works in real life.
Desjardins had 7 fights last season, 10 the season before.
never had more than 20 pts.
Morrow is basically a 4th liner now whose main attribute is his physicality.
He probably has more fights in his career than all of our forwards combined not named Prust/Dorsett.
Jimson Hogarth*
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- Nov 21, 2013
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DL44
Status quo
Bumped so the Virtanen thread could free up....
Dorsett... At the most basic: 20-25 pt 4th liner, Even +/-, 175 PIMS, who fought 17 times. Will make $2.65 mil for the next 3 yrs.
Knock against him: possession numbers, and salary.
My take.. what he did last season @ $1.75 mil in a physical 4th line role putting up 25 pts was outstanding and money well spent. And reading the reviews on Dorsett... so did everyone else... till the playoffs and Ferlund happened.
The focus on his salary appears overblown, considering some are throwing their arms up over a few hundred K.
I would like to see some comparable UFA contracts for that type of depth production.
I don't see his salary numbers as that far off... or deserving of more than a fraction of the vitriol of what some are trying to dish out.
Anyways.. at at her...
#freetheVirtanendiscussionthread
Dorsett... At the most basic: 20-25 pt 4th liner, Even +/-, 175 PIMS, who fought 17 times. Will make $2.65 mil for the next 3 yrs.
Knock against him: possession numbers, and salary.
My take.. what he did last season @ $1.75 mil in a physical 4th line role putting up 25 pts was outstanding and money well spent. And reading the reviews on Dorsett... so did everyone else... till the playoffs and Ferlund happened.
The focus on his salary appears overblown, considering some are throwing their arms up over a few hundred K.
I would like to see some comparable UFA contracts for that type of depth production.
I don't see his salary numbers as that far off... or deserving of more than a fraction of the vitriol of what some are trying to dish out.
Anyways.. at at her...
#freetheVirtanendiscussionthread
Jimson Hogarth*
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- Nov 21, 2013
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Well the other point is that Derek Dorsett didn't play "4th line minutes".
This team rolled 4 lines, there were MANY nights he had more ES ice time than Daniel Sedin.
He had more 14 minute games than he had sub 10 minute games.
He had more games with over a minute on the PP than any 4th liner in the league.
He was a 3rd liner here. He played 22 more minutes over the course of the season on the PP than our 3rd leading goal scorer.
Dorsett is a good 4th liner, when he's getting 4th line usage. His game fell off as he started getting 13-14 minutes regularly.
Glad you agree.
Desjardains played 13 games with the Hawks last year. With them he had one fight. On an 82 game pace he would have averaged about 3-4 fights on the year.
Jimson Hogarth*
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Dorsett had 35 games over 13 minutes of ice time last season. That's not 4th line usage.
The idea that he's such a good 4th liner that he can play 3rd line minutes doesn't fit. Nearly every player on the rosters possession stats go up away from him.
The idea that he's such a good 4th liner that he can play 3rd line minutes doesn't fit. Nearly every player on the rosters possession stats go up away from him.
No it isn't. Fighting is almost meaningless now. Teams like Tampa and the Hawks don't value fighting. Even if you call Desjardins a fighter, I think he is borderline, the Hawks got him not for his ability to drop the gloves. In 13 games Andrew had one fight with the Hawks, a lot less than what his pace was when he was with the Sharks.
You do need physical players but not fighters.
Yeah too bad we don't have any hart, art ross, lindsay award winners who can be mentors on our team right?
opendoor
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- Dec 12, 2006
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How likely is it that he's going to continue to produce like he did this season though? We're talking about a guy who put up 10 points in his 85 games before getting traded to the Canucks.
Tim Jackman put up 10 goals and 23 points once too; unfortunately he hasn't hit double digit points since then. Though at least he's bigger than Linden Vey or Hunter Shinkaruk and might actually intimidate people.
Tim Jackman put up 10 goals and 23 points once too; unfortunately he hasn't hit double digit points since then. Though at least he's bigger than Linden Vey or Hunter Shinkaruk and might actually intimidate people.
Jimson Hogarth*
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I used the term 4th line, because Dorsett finished with 12+ mins of icetime. He certainly wasn't top 9 in TOI. Hence the label.
I do agree the canucks employ a system where icetime is more spread out.
But my point is he is a good 4th liner.
I expect him to be a good 4th liner even with 4th line usage.
Just like Higgins getting 2nd line minutes. The problem with the canucks is that they lack talent, so players need to play above their ability.
Still Dorsett is a capable 4th liner who was overpaid by Benning.
At best Desjardins is a borderline fighter. How is a guy that played 33 games with a team and had one fight a fighter?
Some responses to the above.
To add to what opendoor just posted, the only way he continues to be a 20 point player is if he gets overplayed by his junior coach again.
4th line role? Sure, not normal 4th line minutes.
Dorsett was great until he got overused and became not nearly as effective. They're paying a bit more for intangibles. Great. Why go out and get Prust.
I think a lot of the grief dorsett gets is because he along with Miller and Sbisa and a little bit of Vey seem to be the new coach and GM's pet projects and seem to signify what these guys are all about.
