Derek Dorsett

[tc 23]

Oh sorry I meant how much in the whole series.

0p -3 17 hits (7 game 1, 5 game 2, 0 game 3, 1 game 4, 3 game 5, 1 game 6)

 

[Booshami]

0p -3 17 hits (7 game 1, 5 game 2, 0 game 3, 1 game 4, 3 game 5, 1 game 6)

5 hits in the last four games... what the ****

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

here's the thing i don't get: [MOD] Coach is so concerned about pacing the sedins and not giving them too many minutes and keeping them fresh. why doesn't he have that concern with doesett? Clearly the numbers above show he faded in the series, and he didn't look as energetic as the first 2 games.

I wish one of our sports journalists would ask a question along these lines.

 

[tc 23]

here's the thing i don't get: [MOD] Coach is so concerned about pacing the sedins and not giving them too many minutes and keeping them fresh. why doesn't he have that concern with doesett? Clearly the numbers above show he faded in the series, and he didn't look as energetic as the first 2 games.

I wish one of our sports journalists would ask a question along these lines.

Exactly. That's why we've all been pissed at Willie giving Dorsett more than 10-ish mins a night. He can be effective when he plays limited minutes and can go balls-to-the-wall. When he has more than he can handle, he can't do that and tires out when he tries.

 

[vanuck]

Little to no impact at all in this series when he's supposedly the kind of guy you need to win in the playoffs. Signing just looks even worse.

 

[SillyRabbit]

Exactly. That's why we've all been pissed at Willie giving Dorsett more than 10-ish mins a night. He can be effective when he plays limited minutes and can go balls-to-the-wall. When he has more than he can handle, he can't do that and tires out when he tries.

Do you think Willie feels pressure / has been pressured to play Dorsett more because of the contract that Benning just gave him?

Would reflect badly on Benning if someone he just signed long term and gave a raise to was getting less than 10 minutes of ice time per game.

 

[God]

For every Dorsett shift, he managed to make a piss poor play with the puck. He's got zero hockey sense and is absolutely not a player you want for more than 10 minutes a game.

The Rangers must've been laughing when they acquired a 3rd for him. Ineffective and weak.

 

[tc 23]

Do you think Willie feels pressure / has been pressured to play Dorsett more because of the contract that Benning just gave him?

Would reflect badly on Benning if someone he just signed long term and gave a raise to was getting less than 10 minutes of ice time per game.

I don't think so. Dorsett had been deployed more towards the middle-end of the regular season by Willie even before he was re-signed.

 

[MikeK]

We likely saw the very best that Dorsett has to offer yet it still wasn't any better than a 3rd/4th liner. Why WillieD played him so much is beyond me.

 

[GPNuck]

We likely so the very best that Dorsett has to offer yet it still wasn't any better than a 3rd/4th liner. Why WillieD played him so much is beyond me.

It wasn't worth a 3rd or a 4th and certainly he isn't worth 2.6 million AAV... I''m seriously thinking about taking a 3 year break from Vancouver hockey.. They are not going to be a good team any time soon. And we have an incompetent Coach/GM Tandem.

We will be the laughing stock of the league because of these contracts

 

[Tobi Wan Kenobi]

Dorsett was brought in to make an impact this playoffs. He was nowhere to be seen. A bad signing. I hope the media grills Benning on those Sbisa and Dorsett signings. Why do it then? Why not wait until right now if they wanted to? What was Dorstt going to dominate in the playoffs and want more then 2.5 and would Sbisa put in a no. 1 type performance and want 6? Completely idiotic.

 

[Karl Hungus]

Disappointing that Dorsett didn't make some sort of an impact as the series went on. He wasn't getting around the ice very well in the later games despite appearing to be giving a good effort. I was hoping he was going to give the Flames defense some issues but he seemed to have trouble lining them up.

 

[opendoor]

Yeah, he was completely neutered against the Flames. Doesn't give you much hope for how he'd perform against an actual cup caliber team in the playoffs.

 

[arsmaster*]

here's the thing i don't get: [MOD] Coach is so concerned about pacing the sedins and not giving them too many minutes and keeping them fresh. why doesn't he have that concern with doesett? Clearly the numbers above show he faded in the series, and he didn't look as energetic as the first 2 games.

I wish one of our sports journalists would ask a question along these lines.

The first two games he was on the periphery as well. It comes down to him not being fresh at all, because he was overplayed ALL SEASON.

He was playing over 3mins more per playoff game on average than he played on the Rangers run to the finals last year. 9.5 vs 12.5

Yeah, he was completely neutered against the Flames. Doesn't give you much hope for how he'd perform against an actual cup caliber team in the playoffs.

Well, if he was deployed under 10 minutes a game, we'd have a better idea of what a cup caliber team would do against another cup caliber team, not one content with 101 points and an embarassing playoff.

 

[arsmaster*]

The only seasons Dorsett played more than he did this season his teams finished 24th and 30th overall.

 

[MS]

here's the thing i don't get: [MOD] Coach is so concerned about pacing the sedins and not giving them too many minutes and keeping them fresh. why doesn't he have that concern with doesett? Clearly the numbers above show he faded in the series, and he didn't look as energetic as the first 2 games.

I wish one of our sports journalists would ask a question along these lines.

Yup.

He's clearly a guy who is most effective in 8-10 minutes/game. Absolutely insane how he thought playing the Sedins less (despite them being able to easily handle the minutes) was a good thing but that he had no concerns about wearing Dorsett out.

Awful playoffs for him. Looked 5 years older than he actually is. It's one thing to succeed by outworking everyone in the regular season, but when everyone was giving 110% he looked like a small, ineffective AHL player.

 

[arttk]

Much rather have a player like Burrows show Virtanen what it means to be a canuck than someone that has been here for 1 year.

I guess you apparently have to surround your top prospects with ****** players that are really nice guys off ice instead of surrounding with loyal Canuck guys that bleed blue green who also happen to be good players.

Who knew that a Virtanen could learn more from playing with some with no talent than learn from someone with talent.

I really don't get the concept how Dorsett is a good mentor because he works real hard. Every single NHL player works hard, there are only a couple, if there are any at all, that can get by on talent alone while being lazy. The Sedins come into camp in better shape that any other player on the team year after year, if you want Virtanen mentored, send him to Sweden and spend a summer with the twins.

I mean you see guys spending their summer working out with Crosby, Parise etc. When was the last time you hear guys going out of their way to spend the summer with Derek Dorsett?

We need good players to mentor Virtanen on how to be a successful 1st line player, not how to be a successful 4th line mucker. We need a mentor that can give him advice on what to do in different situations not just go out there and skate real hard and achieve nothing. You learn from the best of the best, not from the best out of the crappiest bunch.

 

[Scurr]

I really don't get the concept how Dorsett is a good mentor because he works real hard. Every single NHL player works hard, there are only a couple, if there are any at all, that can get by on talent alone while being lazy. The Sedins come into camp in better shape that any other player on the team year after year, if you want Virtanen mentored, send him to Sweden and spend a summer with the twins.

I mean you see guys spending their summer working out with Crosby, Parise etc. When was the last time you hear guys going out of their way to spend the summer with Derek Dorsett?

We need good players to mentor Virtanen on how to be a successful 1st line player, not how to be a successful 4th line mucker. We need a mentor that can give him advice on what to do in different situations not just go out there and skate real hard and achieve nothing. You learn from the best of the best, not from the best out of the crappiest bunch.

Saying that everyone in the NHL works hard is about as useful as saying everyone in the league is skilled.

 

[arttk]

Saying that everyone in the NHL works hard is about as useful as saying everyone in the league is skilled.

And saying that Derek Dorsett works hard is basically scraping for positives because there are so few.

That is the problem with the logic of Dorsett is a good mentor because he works hard. Every single player works hard.

 

[Scurr]

And saying that Derek Dorsett works hard is basically scraping for positives because there are so few.

That is the problem with the logic of Dorsett is a good mentor because he works hard. Every single player works hard.

In a general sense, sure, just like they're all skilled. There are obviously varying degrees of that, though, for both skill and hard work. I'll never marginalize the affect that hard work has… I'm honestly surprised that so many people here do. I feel like I learned a lot about the importance of hard work through hockey… I thought the people here would share that in common.

'Hard work' seems to have been lumped into a group with 'clutch' and put in the fantasy section. It's gross.

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

I really don't get the concept how Dorsett is a good mentor because he works real hard. Every single NHL player works hard, there are only a couple, if there are any at all, that can get by on talent alone while being lazy. The Sedins come into camp in better shape that any other player on the team year after year, if you want Virtanen mentored, send him to Sweden and spend a summer with the twins.

I mean you see guys spending their summer working out with Crosby, Parise etc. When was the last time you hear guys going out of their way to spend the summer with Derek Dorsett?

We need good players to mentor Virtanen on how to be a successful 1st line player, not how to be a successful 4th line mucker. We need a mentor that can give him advice on what to do in different situations not just go out there and skate real hard and achieve nothing. You learn from the best of the best, not from the best out of the crappiest bunch.

The mentoring stuff is garbage, nobody cared about it until Benning barfed out some word salad about it and it became a straw for his defenders to grasp at.

Whatever incredibly marginal benefit a player like Virtanen would gain from being in the presence of a shining beacon of professionalism like Dorsett (laugh) is more than offset by spending the entire season pinned in his own end for every shift, or trying to one-time ****** heel passes from that plug, etc.

you're quite right to say the twins are far, far better examples to follow than Dorsett. And they aren't terrible at hockey!

 

[CanaFan]

And saying that Derek Dorsett works hard is basically scraping for positives because there are so few.

That is the problem with the logic of Dorsett is a good mentor because he works hard. Every single player works hard.

It isn't binary. Players work ethics and a multitude of other soft attributes (attitudes, leadership, etc) are a broad spectrum. Certainly compared to you and I they all "work hard", but within the NHL ranks there are still degrees of separation.

That said, I don't think Dorsett or Prust are considered "good mentors" simply because they work hard. As I've suggested in numerous posts, it is far more likely because they have a certain personality type - generous, approachable, etc - that makes them more suited to helping out a 19 yo kid learn the NHL ropes. Has nothing to do with skill or talent or working hard. Just comes down to being the right 'type' of person. Ryan Kesler was probably the hardest worker this team has had in recent years yet I don't get the impression he would have been willing to spend more than 5 minutes of his time helping out a young kid. Kesler's work ethic was all about Kesler, not other people.

Keep in mind I am not saying Virtanen should be placed on a line with Prust or Dorsett. In fact, I think that would be detrimental to his long-term development. Learning how to PLAY the game should definitely come from higher-end guys that can teach the nuances of timing, positioning, etc. This is where spending time ON THE ICE with the Sedins, Burrows, etc would be the way to go.

But there is nothing wrong with rooming Virtanen with Dorsett/Prust and letting them help these kids make the transition to NHL life.

They are two separate things.

 

[arttk]

In a general sense, sure, just like they're all skilled. There are obviously varying degrees of that, though, for both skill and hard work. I'll never marginalize the affect that hard work has… I'm honestly surprised that so many people here do. I feel like I learned a lot about the importance of hard work through hockey… I thought the people here would share that in common.

'Hard work' seems to have been lumped into a group with 'clutch' and put in the fantasy section. It's gross.

Hard work is not a rare trait amongst NHL hockey players.
When you say this player works real hard, it has no real meaning because everyone works hard. Look at Doughty, he learned how to work real hard from a coach. LA didn't bring in a 4th line overpaid plug to teach him the value in working hard.

For example, I work bloody hard, probably harder than any of my peers, I learned that from being in a competitive environment where everyone works hard. When I was looking for a mentor, I don't go find a guy who works harder than me, I found a guy who knows a great deal more than me, a guy who can teach me things that would otherwise take a long time for me to figure out. A mentor should teach you things you don't know, things that he/she has learned through their experience.

We need someone who knows how to succeed to mentor Virtanen, to teach him the things to do to be successful. He can pickup "hard work" from just watching how every player prepares themselves.

 

[Jyrki21]

'Hard work' seems to have been lumped into a group with 'clutch' and put in the fantasy section. It's gross.

I think it's because there is a tendency to assume that less skilled players are "working harder" by default, for the same reason that guys who have an angry facial expression or more animated movements are assumed to care more, etc., or how defensemen who provide no offense are thought to be better at defending. It's a rationalization and it's based on superficial stuff. It probably is mythical, because it's always so predictable who gets tagged with the "hard-working" label -- less skilled North Americans who play a physical game.

 

[arttk]

It isn't binary. Players work ethics and a multitude of other soft attributes (attitudes, leadership, etc) are a broad spectrum. Certainly compared to you and I they all "work hard", but within the NHL ranks there are still degrees of separation.

That said, I don't think Dorsett or Prust are considered "good mentors" simply because they work hard. As I've suggested in numerous posts, it is far more likely because they have a certain personality type - generous, approachable, etc - that makes them more suited to helping out a 19 yo kid learn the NHL ropes. Has nothing to do with skill or talent or working hard. Just comes down to being the right 'type' of person. Ryan Kesler was probably the hardest worker this team has had in recent years yet I don't get the impression he would have been willing to spend more than 5 minutes of his time helping out a young kid. Kesler's work ethic was all about Kesler, not other people.

Keep in mind I am not saying Virtanen should be placed on a line with Prust or Dorsett. In fact, I think that would be detrimental to his long-term development. Learning how to PLAY the game should definitely come from higher-end guys that can teach the nuances of timing, positioning, etc. This is where spending time ON THE ICE with the Sedins, Burrows, etc would be the way to go.

But there is nothing wrong with rooming Virtanen with Dorsett/Prust and letting them help these kids make the transition to NHL life.

They are two separate things.

Even if they are generous, generosity should not cost 2.5M each considering we are talking about 2 4th line plugs. Yeah they are good 4th line players, but at the end of the day they are 4th line players and we are paying like 1M more and justifying it because they are "hard working good mentors".

I am pretty damn sure you can find a lot of generosity by paying somebody league min. Hell like another poster said earlier, get Ryan Walter and he'll be cheaper than that.

Bringing up Kesler reminds me of what Sundin did to the Sedins and Kesler. Now THAT is what you call a good mentor. Hell look at what Lemieux did to Crosby. Even in the province article that talks about how Linden et all were trying to learn from the Spurs. The Spurs brought back former ALL-STARS to be mentors, not bench players who act like cheer leaders. I have no idea how they translated the concept of bringing in hard working former All-stars to bring in 4th line plugs to be mentors.