Confirmed with Link: DeBrincat signs for 4 year, $7.875 per year extension)

[ricky0034]

That's the plan with every team bud, I don't know why that's news to you. It's why Cat/Larkin/Ray doesn't work, because they will get demolished by a checking line. Most teams have physical guys on their 3rd line as well.

Having only one physical line might work if the other 3 lines are HOFers like the Wings Cup teams, but that won't happen again with the salary cap. Look at the Vegas Cup team, everyone besides Theodore was throwing checks and playing physical.

Vegas Golden Knights @ NHL - 2023 Playoff Stats

Vegas Golden Knights stats, scoring leaders and demographics breakdown in the 2023 NHL playoffs. Player nationality and age distributions, draft rounds of players in the 2023 playoffs.

www.quanthockey.com

fun fact: that Wings team last year that was apparently so soft because of their hits numbers only had about a hundred less hits on the season than the Vegas team you're talking about

another fun fact: the only players on Vegas who had more hits last season than DeBrincat were a few guys that played 11-12 minutes a night

 

[Gniwder]

fun fact: that Wings team last year that was apparently so soft because of their hits numbers only had about a hundred less hits on the season than the Vegas team you're talking about

another fun fact: the only players on Vegas who had more hits last season than DeBrincat were a few guys that played 11-12 minutes a night

For a little guy he throws a lot of hits, but I really doubt he scares anyone. I do like his toughness though. The comment was more in regards to Burger/Raymond, along with Compher/Copp. Overall it's a soft team. We'll see how the team fares in puck battles.

I still think Lalonde goes the "Piano Puller" route and throws a bigger guy on each line to balance it out. I doubt he relies on a 5'8" winger as his physical presence, lol.

 

[Retire91]

I think you are right I don't see Raymond Larkin DeBrincat I think it will be spread out

 

[Detroit Knights]

For a little guy he throws a lot of hits, but I really doubt he scares anyone. I do like his toughness though. The comment was more in regards to Burger/Raymond, along with Compher/Copp. Overall it's a soft team. We'll see how the team fares in puck battles.

I still think Lalonde goes the "Piano Puller" route and throws a bigger guy on each line to balance it out. I doubt he relies on a 5'8" winger as his physical presence, lol.

The point of hitting is not to have the other team scared to get hit (although it is a huge plus). The point of hitting is to take a key player out of the current play that may be integral to whatever is happening. That is why, in the playoffs especially, players hit another guy and the hitter uses the "hit-tee" to get up, or lays on top of them far longer than needed. It is to take the pawn off the board while play is still alive.

I guess I could find clips of this happening if I am not fully explaining this well enough, but again, the whole premise of hitting, especially in today's league with how soft everyone is, is to eliminate that threat from the current action.

So, if opposing teams were smart, they would hit and make it hard for debrincat to get up to rejoin the current play, as he is our biggest scoring threat. Conversely, whoever does the hitting can't be integral to the play, as well.

Another example would be Larkin hitting Tkachuk in OTT zone as DET loses possession. Tkachuk can be an offensive threat, especially in front of the net. So, if it takes longer for him to get to DET's zone, it is beneficial for DET as they turn to defense. However, Larkin is a great two-way player with good to great defensive skills. So, he is taking himself out of the immediate play, where if we do not have another defensive-minded forward to take his place, could be less than beneficial. Risk-reward. EDIT: the other factor is speed. Larkin could get back into the opposite zone much quicker than Tkachuk could in this example. So it would still be beneficial while the DET defense try to force a turnover or get the puck back some other way before Tkachuk makes it into the zone.

Back in the day, you hit someone to take them out of the game, not the play. Today's world is the opposite (most of the time).

 

[jaster]

The point of hitting is not to have the other team scared to get hit (although it is a huge plus). The point of hitting is to take a key player out of the current play that may be integral to whatever is happening. That is why, in the playoffs especially, players hit another guy and the hitter uses the "hit-tee" to get up, or lays on top of them far longer than needed. It is to take the pawn off the board while play is still alive.

I wish more people understood this. Separate the man from the puck. Weren't you all taught about checking in PeeWee?? The idea of hitting players to hurt them is not actually a hockey fundamental.

 

[dalem177]

I wish more people understood this. Separate the man from the puck. Weren't you all taught about checking in PeeWee?? The idea of hitting players to hurt them is not actually a hockey fundamental.

And someone lining up a hit on DeBrincat is NOT lining up a hit on Larks or Raymond, etc.

For the first time in a while, maybe the Wings will have a line or two that makes the other team react to them for once.

 

[Gniwder]

The point of hitting is not to have the other team scared to get hit (although it is a huge plus). The point of hitting is to take a key player out of the current play that may be integral to whatever is happening. That is why, in the playoffs especially, players hit another guy and the hitter uses the "hit-tee" to get up, or lays on top of them far longer than needed. It is to take the pawn off the board while play is still alive.

I guess I could find clips of this happening if I am not fully explaining this well enough, but again, the whole premise of hitting, especially in today's league with how soft everyone is, is to eliminate that threat from the current action.

So, if opposing teams were smart, they would hit and make it hard for debrincat to get up to rejoin the current play, as he is our biggest scoring threat. Conversely, whoever does the hitting can't be integral to the play, as well.

Another example would be Larkin hitting Tkachuk in OTT zone as DET loses possession. Tkachuk can be an offensive threat, especially in front of the net. So, if it takes longer for him to get to DET's zone, it is beneficial for DET as they turn to defense. However, Larkin is a great two-way player with good to great defensive skills. So, he is taking himself out of the immediate play, where if we do not have another defensive-minded forward to take his place, could be less than beneficial. Risk-reward. EDIT: the other factor is speed. Larkin could get back into the opposite zone much quicker than Tkachuk could in this example. So it would still be beneficial while the DET defense try to force a turnover or get the puck back some other way before Tkachuk makes it into the zone.

Back in the day, you hit someone to take them out of the game, not the play. Today's world is the opposite (most of the time).

You don't have to explain it to me, I've played the game. It doesn't change the fact that the Wings don't hit enough AND have issues winning puck battles. If you can't win the puck battle then at least take the opponent out of the play. FWIW, the Wings were second to worst in the league for 5 on 5 takeaways. The best? Seattle. They threw 6 fewer hits than the Wings (ranked #20), but they didn't need to.

Basically the options are steal the puck, win the puck battle, or hit to get the opponent out of the play. The Wings collectively aren't good at any of them, and Burger ranks at the bottom if you look at combined TK+hits. Stats aside, he's not good defensively, and doesn't score enough to make up for it.

None of this was a knock on DeBrincat, I just have issues throwing Ray or Burger on his line. I think those 2 kids are way overrated here.

 

[Oddbob]

Indeed.

The problem I have is that the foundation is soft. This team is building the house on 10 ply toilet paper foundation. These wingers that everyone is falling in love with will get traded once the real core (Danielson/Kasper/Ed/Seider/Cossa?) develop into playoff caliber players. I think those players are the foundation, not Ray/Burger/Cat. It feels more like Stevie is collecting assets for the real rebuild, and the roster will look drastically different by the time this team gets to the second round.

I'm optimistic for the season though, at least it'll be watchable as long as Larkin/Cat stay healthy. I'm just not gonna fall in love with players that I don't think will be with the Wings in 4 years. I'll bet either Burger or Ray gets traded. Playoff teams do make big trades to get to the next level, Florida did it last offseason.




Yeah, Burger and Matt T are identical players because neither have a Cup. You're absolutely right.


Pretty obvious why Stevie went hard after Kostin, trying to get at least a couple players that can hit. Him and Fischer. Problem is, the opposing defense has nothing to worry about (physically) unless they're playing against the 4th line.

Note: Sprong doesn't hit or play defense despite being a 4th liner.

Yeah, that was the point being made! The point being made since it was hard for you was the Tkachuk's have won nothing in this league, so maybe they shouldn't be the basis of who you want in a Wings uniform.

 

[Detroit Knights]

I wish more people understood this. Separate the man from the puck. Weren't you all taught about checking in PeeWee?? The idea of hitting players to hurt them is not actually a hockey fundamental.

It isn't a fundamental at all, especially in today's NHL. 10-15 years ago and before it definitely was a huge part of the fundamental, but now it is used how it was originally intended. For better or worse, it is what it is.

 

[Detroit Knights]

You don't have to explain it to me, I've played the game. It doesn't change the fact that the Wings don't hit enough AND have issues winning puck battles. If you can't win the puck battle then at least take the opponent out of the play. FWIW, the Wings were second to worst in the league for 5 on 5 takeaways. The best? Seattle. They threw 6 fewer hits than the Wings (ranked #20), but they didn't need to.

Basically the options are steal the puck, win the puck battle, or hit to get the opponent out of the play. The Wings collectively aren't good at any of them, and Burger ranks at the bottom if you look at combined TK+hits. Stats aside, he's not good defensively, and doesn't score enough to make up for it.

I see what you are saying, but I was responding to what you initially said, where you claimed that yeah sure debrincat hits people but I doubt he scares anyone.

Scaring someone with the threat of hitting is irrelevant because that is not the intended use of hitting. The whole point of hitting is not to hurt or injure, it is to take a pawn away from the main board. What you are implying is debrincat scares no one so his hits are useless/irrelevant; however that just is not what the hit is for.

Now, when debrincat hits, does it do what the intended use of hitting is used for? I have no idea to be very honest, but if he threw 100+ hits in a season, I can only imagine that it did what it was supposed to do at least a couple of the times he did it...

None of this was a knock on DeBrincat, I just have issues throwing Ray or Burger on his line. I think those 2 kids are way overrated here.

As far as this goes. I agree partially. Berggren and Ray are what 21/22? I think Ray could get just below DBC levels and berggren would be the guy feeding him. Berggren - Compher - Raymond as a second line i think would work great. I like the thought of a ray/lark/dbc line because of the offensive upside this could bring; however, they could be thrown around a lot and that would put much more onus on Seider and/or walman to answer for it. Of which I am sure they are fine with, especially seider, but if you have the possibility of not needing to do that, then I would take advantage.

This is just an example?!!?!?!!!: But, putting a rough player like Kostin on larkin/dbc would be helpful, although I don't think it would give the offensive output we are looking for. I'd rather not give up on ras/copp/perron line as they did do well, so that takes Ras out for ras/lark/dbc. That leaves a player like Sprong to fill that need, of which I am definitely fine with. Sprong plays much bigger than his size and has hands. No, we aren't going to have the offensive output as dbc/lark/ray, but it would be slightly below that.

The other option is to add berggren and that would be a phenomenal line in regards to offense and puck possession; however, they will probably get pushed around more than with ray on the line. Larkin can obvious muck it up and I am not diminishing his physicality at all, but I am from the era that if your captain is getting pushed around, you hip check the guy doing it into your bench and have your teammates on the bench "help" him out.

Maybe Larkin/DBC/Fabbri? I think that would actually work out extremely well. Just need Fabbri to stay healthy for over half the season.

 

[Frk It]

I see what you are saying, but I was responding to what you initially said, where you claimed that yeah sure debrincat hits people but I doubt he scares anyone.

Scaring someone with the threat of hitting is irrelevant because that is not the intended use of hitting. The whole point of hitting is not to hurt or injure, it is to take a pawn away from the main board. What you are implying is debrincat scares no one so his hits are useless/irrelevant; however that just is not what the hit is for.

Now, when debrincat hits, does it do what the intended use of hitting is used for? I have no idea to be very honest, but if he threw 100+ hits in a season, I can only imagine that it did what it was supposed to do at least a couple of the times he did it...

He also said in the interview the other day with Detroit media that he does it to stay engaged in the game.

 

[Gniwder]

Yeah, that was the point being made! The point being made since it was hard for you was the Tkachuk's have won nothing in this league, so maybe they shouldn't be the basis of who you want in a Wings uniform.

LOL, he'd easily be the best player on the team. Yeah, no way would I want him. I seriously hope you're drunk or joking. There have been many elite players that never won a Cup for one reason or another, meanwhile Helm won it twice. You don't judge a player solely based on if he's won a Cup or not. It's a team sport.

Especially in the salary cap era, an elite talent means less money for the rest of the roster. McDavid hasn't won a Cup either.

He also said in the interview the other day with Detroit media that he does it to stay engaged in the game.

Maybe he can coach the rest of the team.

 

[Oddbob]

LOL, he'd easily be the best player on the team. Yeah, no way would I want him. I seriously hope you're drunk or joking. There have been many elite players that never won a Cup for one reason or another, meanwhile Helm won it twice. You don't judge a player solely based on if he's won a Cup or not. It's a team sport.

Especially in the salary cap era, an elite talent means less money for the rest of the roster. McDavid hasn't won a Cup either.

There is lots of good players in the league that we would all love to have. Why do we need a Tkachuk in particular? It doesn't even make sense to bring it up as clearly no player(s) of that level are available to Detroit right now.

You are bringing up Tkachuk cause we are soft, yet plenty of teams have won the Cup without that kind of player at the forefront of their roster. Who was this big bad bruiser at the top of Vegas's lineup? Or TB in the 2 years they won?

 

[Detroit Knights]

With all of what I said here the lines I think work very well for a top to bottom scoring lineup with toughness on each line would look something like:

Fabbri - Larkin - DBC
Berggren - Compher - Raymond
Rasmussen - Copp - Perron
Kostin - Veleno/Kasper - Sprong

At some point just interchange copp with kasper once he is a regular and interchange perron and sprong to mix it up a bit. If lalonde/yzerman wants a checking line that can mess with other teams' line 1 and 2, then a line consisting of Kostin - Kasper - Sprong would do wonders. They are all physical, have ability to score (albeit rarely but you can't cheat when they are out there), and may not match up great, but can bring that energy for a 30 second shift to mess with the line changes.

Could also see the exact same lineup there just change sprong and fabbri and I think it would still fit.

There is lots of good players in the league that we would all love to have. Why do we need a Tkachuk in particular? It doesn't even make sense to bring it up as clearly no player(s) of that level are available to Detroit right now.

You are bringing up Tkachuk cause we are soft, yet plenty of teams have won the Cup without that kind of player at the forefront of their roster. Who was this big bad bruiser at the top of Vegas's lineup? Or TB in the 2 years they won?

I guess you could argue that carrier was or kolezar. I mean, kolezar did shatter tkachuk's sternum, so there's that. It used to be reaves and carrier together putting on a hitting clinic.

You could go the other route and say Pietrangelo was their bruiser because he likes to practice his axe form...

 

[Gniwder]

There is lots of good players in the league that we would all love to have. Why do we need a Tkachuk in particular? It doesn't even make sense to bring it up as clearly no player(s) of that level are available to Detroit right now.

You are bringing up Tkachuk cause we are soft, yet plenty of teams have won the Cup without that kind of player at the forefront of their roster. Who was this big bad bruiser at the top of Vegas's lineup? Or TB in the 2 years they won?

Geeez dude, I just used him as an example because it was the first name that came up in my head. I looked up his game log real quick, 20 hits in the Boston series.

There are a hundred players I would take over Burger, lol. Don't read that much into it, honestly I hate that whole family. I said something nice about Rat Face a couple of weeks ago and didn't get nearly as much flak.

 

[Oddbob]

With all of what I said here the lines I think work very well for a top to bottom scoring lineup with toughness on each line would look something like:

Fabbri - Larkin - DBC
Berggren - Compher - Raymond
Rasmussen - Copp - Perron
Kostin - Veleno/Kasper - Sprong

At some point just interchange copp with kasper once he is a regular and interchange perron and sprong to mix it up a bit. If lalonde/yzerman wants a checking line that can mess with other teams' line 1 and 2, then a line consisting of Kostin - Kasper - Sprong would do wonders. They are all physical, have ability to score (albeit rarely but you can't cheat when they are out there), and may not match up great, but can bring that energy for a 30 second shift to mess with the line changes.

Could also see the exact same lineup there just change sprong and fabbri and I think it would still fit.


I guess you could argue that carrier was or kolezar. I mean, kolezar did shatter tkachuk's sternum, so there's that. It used to be reaves and carrier together putting on a hitting clinic.

You could go the other route and say Pietrangelo was their bruiser because he likes to practice his axe form...

Those aren't star players though. When we get competitive again, you can always find those big body lower line forwards.

 

[Oddbob]

Geeez dude, I just used him as an example because it was the first name that came up in my head. I looked up his game log real quick, 20 hits in the Boston series.

There are a hundred players I would take over Burger, lol. Don't read that much into it, honestly I hate that whole family. I said something nice about Rat Face a couple of weeks ago and didn't get nearly as much flak.

Berggren is not going to be a player we either lose or win because of. He will be a complimentary type player. Him being soft doesn't mean much in the greater scheme of the team. Every team has softish scoring type forwards. When we get back to the playoffs, there are always plenty of big hitters to acquire if we lack that. For example, Vegas's big hitters were there 3rd or 4th line guys. Same with TB.

 

[Gniwder]

Berggren is not going to be a player we either lose or win because of. He will be a complimentary type player. Him being soft doesn't mean much in the greater scheme of the team. Every team has softish scoring type forwards. When we get back to the playoffs, there are always plenty of big hitters to acquire if we lack that. For example, Vegas's big hitters were there 3rd or 4th line guys. Same with TB.

So 3rd and 4th liners are supposed to hit, does that mean Burger's a 2ng line winger? And you're saying 2nd line winger don't make a difference if the team wins or not?

Doing Happy Hour today?

 

[RRhoads]

Toughest player we ever had wasn't tough because gave hits. He was tough because he got up. It's not all about what you can give. It's about how much you can take.

 

[Oddbob]

So 3rd and 4th liners are supposed to hit, does that mean Burger's a 2ng line winger? And you're saying 2nd line winger don't make a difference if the team wins or not?

Doing Happy Hour today?

Have you been meeting with norrisnick lately? Where did I say anywhere that a 3rd liner either has to hit or not hit? Also, where is it required or needed on any team that every player in the top 6 needs to be physical? Any line can have any type of player on it that works or is needed, and Berggren or any other softish player doesn't change this.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Those aren't star players though. When we get competitive again, you can always find those big body lower line forwards.

Never said star players or inferred that. But certain players on the roster should be protected some how in some way. Some don't need the help.

 

[Gniwder]

Have you been meeting with norrisnick lately? Where did I say anywhere that a 3rd liner either has to hit or not hit? Also, where is it required or needed on any team that every player in the top 6 needs to be physical? Any line can have any type of player on it that works or is needed, and Berggren or any other softish player doesn't change this.

The problem isn't JUST Burger, the team is soft overall. He got mentioned because he's the softest. It's also not a big issue until the team actually makes the playoffs.

I fully expect Stevie to make big trades once the tam makes the playoffs, I wouldn't be surprised to see Burger or Ray traded. He's not built for the playoffs, just look at Vegas' playoff hit stats. Don't get too attached to him like you did with Zadina, I still remember you telling me what a great shooter he is because he contorted his upper body while scoring a goal. Good times.

Never said star players or inferred that. But certain players on the roster should be protected some how in some way. Some don't need the help.

Every player is fair game in the playoffs, which is why you don't want too many soft players.

 

[Oddbob]

The problem isn't JUST Burger, the team is soft overall. He got mentioned because he's the softest. It's also not a big issue until the team actually makes the playoffs.

I fully expect Stevie to make big trades once the tam makes the playoffs, I wouldn't be surprised to see Burger or Ray traded. He's not built for the playoffs, just look at Vegas' playoff hit stats. Don't get too attached to him like you did with Zadina, I still remember you telling me what a great shooter he is because he contorted his upper body while scoring a goal. Good times.


Every player is fair game in the playoffs, which is why you don't want too many soft players.

There was never a time on here where I said Zadina was a great shooter. Good times must be made up to you.

 

[Detroit Knights]

The problem isn't JUST Burger, the team is soft overall. He got mentioned because he's the softest. It's also not a big issue until the team actually makes the playoffs.

I fully expect Stevie to make big trades once the tam makes the playoffs, I wouldn't be surprised to see Burger or Ray traded. He's not built for the playoffs, just look at Vegas' playoff hit stats. Don't get too attached to him like you did with Zadina, I still remember you telling me what a great shooter he is because he contorted his upper body while scoring a goal. Good times.


Every player is fair game in the playoffs, which is why you don't want too many soft players.

OMG I thought this was a response to me. I almost died LMAO.

To be fair to your statement about vegas in the playoffs: They also were 13th in the league in hits during the regular season, so they weren't crazy big hitters throughout the year. Everyone knows that in the playoffs everyone hits more.

Example: Florida panthers in the regular season were 24th in the league in hits given. In the playoffs they were #1

 

[Oddbob]

OMG I thought this was a response to me. I almost died LMAO.

To be fair to your statement about vegas in the playoffs: They also were 13th in the league in hits during the regular season, so they weren't crazy big hitters throughout the year. Everyone knows that in the playoffs everyone hits more.

Example: Florida panthers in the regular season were 24th in the league in hits given. In the playoffs they were #1

He made that up! Never said Zadina had a great shot or anything close to it!